Author Topic: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches  (Read 26692 times)

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Offline stuffster

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2008, 09:33:56 AM »
Yes, BUT, wouldnt you rather be forewarned that there may be problems, which a large number of rescue dogs DO have (speaking as someone now struggling to cope with my new rescue dog's problems, which I was very grateful to have been forewarned about!)

Ive been speaking to behaviourists this week about Alfie's issues and they are VERY common in rescue dogs. That is not to say that all dogs from rescue centres will have those problems, but it is a common enough a problem for my local behaviourist to run clinics just for rehabilitating rescues who havent been properly socialised.

Would you prefer the rescue centres to say "Oh Im sure everything will be fine", give the dogs to anyone who fancies a cute little ex-breeder, and then have the dogs given back IF problems develop. Surely it is better to let people know there is a good chance these problems may occur.

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Offline Tasha

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2008, 11:05:51 AM »
prehaps if you knew a little more about me that might put your fears at rest regarding my talking twaddle >:( I do an awful lot with the two breed rescues for my main breed as well as four others that cover various breeds including cockers, have worked with rescue centres for the last 15 years.  I am a committee member of a KC registered HPR breed club so am privvy to information that you are not as pet owners or lay people and I did say very specifically that I would not put my comments on cockers as my knowledge on them is not as indepth as my knowledge on my first breed although I know the circumstances of the dogs are the same to a degree.

Its very sad when people pull the wool over the eyes of potential people looking to rehome better to know the worst case senerio and be prepared by having a bahaviourist to hand, a proper look at their own lifestyles to make sure they can accommodate a dog as special as an ex breeder of either sex and to know their own limitations with regard to training and what they are able to provide than to just go blindly in thinking because I feel sorry for it it will all work out. 

Syvia is no different to any other rescue in that some of the placements don't work out and the dogs are returned thats just life, some people do no like to show they have failed so rather than go to the original rescue will place the dog with the breed rescue or an alternative like the RSPCA.  As a rule we do not pts any dog unless it is a real no hoper with no future and even then that is rare but sadly it does happen as there just aren't the homes out there that can take a dangerous dog which sadly some of these dogs turn out to be. Homechecks are all well and good but they are limiting and its not always until the dog is in the home that the true ability of the new owners can really be guaged and its not a bad thing if they return a dog rather than keep it just because they feel sorry for it, does no good for the dog or them.

It is certainly better for all concerned to go in with their eyes open and to be prepared, in all fairness alot of the puppy farm dogs are usually well socialised with other dogs through the fact they have been kept in numbers but lack people skills and some puppy farmers although churning out puppies for profit do not unduly treat their dogs with cruelty those are easy rehomes we'd all wish for, but sadly you have to be prepared for the ones that have been shown cruelty or have been picked on by the pack.  Otherwise what use are you to the dog??? 

What exactly is so wrong with being prepared and making an informed decision of both the good and the bad??  No dog is an easy ride, a second hand dog no matter where it comes from comes with problems or things that don't fit your lifestyle.

As it was asked and I am quite open about these things, yes I do breed once every 5 years (min) only to replace my own stock, I do more health testing than anyone I know in my breed and am always open about any problems my line has (and no line is completely free of everything thats twaddle, mind had a missing p4 tooth which I have had to breed out carefully), I always take a dog back certainly never breed more than I can cope with in any life cycle (12-15 years for my main breed) and I health test whether I breed or not unlike most people, its something I encourage.  I've choosen not to breed from my cocker despite all her good qualities because of my responsibility to the pups from my last litter.  All my puppy owners get support from day one which so far has included basic training (both obedience and gundog as one should not go without the other in a gundog breed), swimming lessons, doggy socialising at a specialist behaviouralists (a ten day holiday without their owners at my expense where they are exposed to a wide variety of breeds and assessed for temperment issues that need working on), sheep & livestock training and people socialising at events like Discover Dogs and this years CLA Gamefair where you would have seen all but one of my litter (whose in scotland) on the Weimaraner Club stand.   I pay for all the health tests on my puppies as I do not feel this should be the soul responsibility for any owner and keep back any puppies I feel may have a problem no matter what it is - hence two weim pups at the moment not the one I bred for - second pup was bounced on so better safe than sorry he stayed at home thankfully none the worse for wear.   I take breeding a litter very seriously they are my responsibility for life no matter who the owner is and I want them to have the best chances possible.



Offline PennyB

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2008, 10:41:58 PM »
I'm also curious as to where people get their figures from as well about all these ex-breeding bitches bouncing back though --- I would say in our rescue and in one or two others I know they don't bounce back any more than other dogs do.

I would also say one rescue who rehomes more of them than we do told that temperamentally they were very good as so often they wouldn't have been 'successful' in their previous role if they had been aggressive.

I have a friend who has an ex breeder and so does her MIL and a close friend of hers and they all have families with kids.
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Offline AnnieG

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2008, 11:44:31 PM »
I can only speak for ex-breeding cockers as that is all I have direct experience of.  But I know exactly what that entails and have long-standing personal contact with around fifteen other people who have, like me, also adopted puppy farm throwouts.  I simply do not recognize this picture of a potentially dangerous bitch that should not be housed with children.  Their level of fear varies hugely but the common factor between all the cockers has been their gentleness. They are the least dangerous dogs I have ever come across. I believe that biting, unco-operative dogs simply do not last long in the puppy farm environment.  If they give trouble during the constant round of mating and whelping they are 'weeded' out (via a shotgun if they are lucky) long before they reach rehomers like MT.  They may not be suitable for homes with children who are unable to treat them with patience or respect - but that goes for any dog, even one who has had the happiest start in life.  I certainly strongly dispute the assertion that the needle is a better option than rehoming -- along with many of us here on COL who have adopted them successfully and would do so again without hesitation.

Offline Maria

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2008, 09:54:40 AM »
I'm also curious as to where people get their figures from as well about all these ex-breeding bitches bouncing back though --- I would say in our rescue and in one or two others I know they don't bounce back any more than other dogs do.

I would also say one rescue who rehomes more of them than we do told that temperamentally they were very good as so often they wouldn't have been 'successful' in their previous role if they had been aggressive.

I have a friend who has an ex breeder and so does her MIL and a close friend of hers and they all have families with kids.

I'd be interested to know where the stats come from re bouncing too - it doesn't stack up with my own experience, or that of the people I know who have adopted an ex breeding cocker. As Annie says, due to the way they have to live beforehand, I doubt and aggressive dog would be 'tolerated'. All the ones I've met have been extremely gentle too, and Smudge is far, far, better with children than our older dog is.

Offline Cob-Web

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2008, 06:42:06 PM »
I'd be interested to know where the stats come from re bouncing too - it doesn't stack up with my own experience, or that of the people I know who have adopted an ex breeding cocker.

My own comment about dogs "bouncing" is based on the fact that I often read about them on rescue websites; perhaps it is my perception that dogs seem to appear regularly on rescue websites with the comments "...things didn't work out in their first home..." or "....returned to us...."

Of course, not all are breeding bitches, and not all are returned because of problems that their new owners can't deal with  :-\ Even some Cockeronline members have been at the end of their tether at times, and have seriously considered, or even taken steps, to give up their ex-breeding bitch.......members of this forum are some of the most committed spaniel owners in the country, and if they have been so desperate that they have considered giving up, then that gives me an indication of exactly how tough it is!
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Offline Maria

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2008, 07:46:34 PM »
I'd be interested to know where the stats come from re bouncing too - it doesn't stack up with my own experience, or that of the people I know who have adopted an ex breeding cocker.

My own comment about dogs "bouncing" is based on the fact that I often read about them on rescue websites; perhaps it is my perception that dogs seem to appear regularly on rescue websites with the comments "...things didn't work out in their first home..." or "....returned to us...."

Of course, not all are breeding bitches, and not all are returned because of problems that their new owners can't deal with  :-\ Even some Cockeronline members have been at the end of their tether at times, and have seriously considered, or even taken steps, to give up their ex-breeding bitch.......members of this forum are some of the most committed spaniel owners in the country, and if they have been so desperate that they have considered giving up, then that gives me an indication of exactly how tough it is!

Ahhh I see. I read the following (as maybe others did) as 'fact'


'A lot of ex-breeding bitches are bounced back into rescue, I suspect that the majority can never be fully rehabilitated and many owners are unable to fully accommodate their needs for the rest of their lives, and their owners reluctantly give up - and they are only the ones that the rescues know about . More still are passed from home to home through free-ads or private rehoming arrangements so the poor dears are more and more confused and less and less able to adapt'

Glad to see you have clarified it as your perception - I'm happy to say that my perception is completely different, and I also visit a quite a few rescue sites. I can't comment on how many COL members have thought about / given up their ex breeders, as I don't have time to visit enough to have a view.

That said, I know these poor souls aren't for everyone as they can need a lot of time and patience, which is probably why, going back to the original post, that MT 'overemphasise' the requirements they may need. You can't say you haven't been warned.......
We would do it again though, absolutely.

Offline PennyB

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2008, 08:49:31 PM »
Even some Cockeronline members have been at the end of their tether at times, and have seriously considered, or even taken steps, to give up their ex-breeding bitch.......members of this forum are some of the most committed spaniel owners in the country, and if they have been so desperate that they have considered giving up, then that gives me an indication of exactly how tough it is!

Yes, but look at the puppy section as well and see how many more say the same about puppyhood/teenage months of a cocker ;)
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Offline EmmaA

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2008, 08:58:35 PM »
Even some Cockeronline members have been at the end of their tether at times, and have seriously considered, or even taken steps, to give up their ex-breeding bitch.......members of this forum are some of the most committed spaniel owners in the country, and if they have been so desperate that they have considered giving up, then that gives me an indication of exactly how tough it is!

Yes, but look at the puppy section as well and see how many more say the same about puppyhood/teenage months of a cocker ;)

I can certainly agree with that one and I've had the little (insert own expletive) from day one. At  least these poor things have got an excuse they have had a bad start to life.

Offline Cob-Web

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2008, 09:01:30 PM »
Even some Cockeronline members have been at the end of their tether at times, and have seriously considered, or even taken steps, to give up their ex-breeding bitch.......members of this forum are some of the most committed spaniel owners in the country, and if they have been so desperate that they have considered giving up, then that gives me an indication of exactly how tough it is!

Yes, but look at the puppy section as well and see how many more say the same about puppyhood/teenage months of a cocker ;)

Oh, I agree entirely, Penny - and I would certainly support responsible breeders who "warn" prospective owners about what to expect in puppy adolescence, just as I support a rescues decision to "warn" prospective owners about what to expect when they rehome a rescue dog   ;)
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Offline LisaB

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2008, 10:22:37 PM »
I can only speak for ex-breeding cockers as that is all I have direct experience of.  But I know exactly what that entails and have long-standing personal contact with around fifteen other people who have, like me, also adopted puppy farm throwouts.  I simply do not recognize this picture of a potentially dangerous bitch that should not be housed with children.  Their level of fear varies hugely but the common factor between all the cockers has been their gentleness. They are the least dangerous dogs I have ever come across. I believe that biting, unco-operative dogs simply do not last long in the puppy farm environment.  If they give trouble during the constant round of mating and whelping they are 'weeded' out (via a shotgun if they are lucky) long before they reach rehomers like MT.  They may not be suitable for homes with children who are unable to treat them with patience or respect - but that goes for any dog, even one who has had the happiest start in life.  I certainly strongly dispute the assertion that the needle is a better option than rehoming -- along with many of us here on COL who have adopted them successfully and would do so again without hesitation.

Beatifully put!!!!

Offline AnnieG

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #71 on: November 21, 2008, 10:43:07 PM »
I can only speak for ex-breeding cockers as that is all I have direct experience of.  But I know exactly what that entails and have long-standing personal contact with around fifteen other people who have, like me, also adopted puppy farm throwouts.  I simply do not recognize this picture of a potentially dangerous bitch that should not be housed with children.  Their level of fear varies hugely but the common factor between all the cockers has been their gentleness. They are the least dangerous dogs I have ever come across. I believe that biting, unco-operative dogs simply do not last long in the puppy farm environment.  If they give trouble during the constant round of mating and whelping they are 'weeded' out (via a shotgun if they are lucky) long before they reach rehomers like MT.  They may not be suitable for homes with children who are unable to treat them with patience or respect - but that goes for any dog, even one who has had the happiest start in life.  I certainly strongly dispute the assertion that the needle is a better option than rehoming -- along with many of us here on COL who have adopted them successfully and would do so again without hesitation.

Beatifully put!!!!

Thank you!!!

Offline LisaB

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2008, 11:25:22 PM »
I've always wondered about rehoming an ex stud boy - with a late neuter, would he be mounting all the time a current resident girl?

Offline Jeeves

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2008, 08:38:21 AM »
I've always wondered about rehoming an ex stud boy - with a late neuter, would he be mounting all the time a current resident girl?

As the proud owner of an ex-stud boy (Parker) I can safely say that the furthest thing from Parker's mind is rumpy pumpy with anyone or anything ::)

Even when he's been around ladies on heat, he has wandered off in his own little cloud and not shown the slightest interest in them.  I think he feels he's done enough of that business to last him the rest of his life :005:
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Offline debrand

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Re: How do you cope re homing ex breeding bitches
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2008, 08:53:07 AM »
I've always wondered about rehoming an ex stud boy - with a late neuter, would he be mounting all the time a current resident girl?

As the proud owner of an ex-stud boy (Parker) I can safely say that the furthest thing from Parker's mind is rumpy pumpy with anyone or anything ::)

Even when he's been around ladies on heat, he has wandered off in his own little cloud and not shown the slightest interest in them.  I think he feels he's done enough of that business to last him the rest of his life :005:

Aw poor Parker must be shattered!
 :rofl1: :rofl1: