Anyone else has/had a working cocker as their first dog?

[lisalh]

I know alot of people have working cockers as pets and do very well with them but
I think working cockers should be in homes where there going to be worked 

In an ideal world every dog would be doing what it is bred for but as a blanket statement I have to disagree. Not all workers have the 'high' working drive that others do and make ideal pets for people with the time patience and active lifestyle to suit them, and in a similar vein not all show cockers are suitable for the show ring!

I for one wouldnt be without my worker and although I had originally intended to get a 'show' dog, I wouldnt be without my Fred his get up and go inspires me to get out and about more and on the rare days when we cant get out for any reason he is a little star and is just as happy snuggled up on the sofa with his chew toys.

Kudos to you though for being brave enough to voice that opinion first though as I am sure many are thinking it

[cazza]

I know alot of people have working cockers as pets and do very well with them but
I think working cockers should be in homes where there going to be worked 

In an ideal world every dog would be doing what it is bred for but as a blanket statement I have to disagree. Not all workers have the 'high' working drive that others do and make ideal pets for people with the time patience and active lifestyle to suit them, and in a similar vein not all show cockers are suitable for the show ring!

I for one wouldnt be without my worker and although I had originally intended to get a 'show' dog, I wouldnt be without my Fred his get up and go inspires me to get out and about more and on the rare days when we cant get out for any reason he is a little star and is just as happy snuggled up on the sofa with his chew toys.

Kudos to you though for being brave enough to voice that opinion first though as I am sure many are thinking it

I agree with everything Lisa said and that includes her last sentance 


edited to add - I didn't intend on getting a cocker at all - but throughly enjoy doing the gun dog training with them
we go out rough shooting when I can get a shoot when I'm not working

[PennyB]

I know alot of people have working cockers as pets and do very well with them but
I think working cockers should be in homes where there going to be worked 

While I know what you mean 'working' can also mean other things in my opinion --- look at Alfie who Mark now has --- he's working but not in the way you suggest but he is 'employed' just as Rosie's Spice is on the agility circuits. Charlie who we also rescued from a life of being stuck in a kitchen then taken to the vets to be pts as he was 'bad' and too much now lives with a family of 6 --- goes running for miles every day with one member of the family who is at home all day, and when another member of the family is off shift he's walked for hours at an end in the hills. These are working cockers I know of (and there are more) but I know that they need more than just a walk round the block, which is what some think they should be having.

Sad thing is as I've said before far too many are now being bred by pet owners as well who never do anything with them either--- take Alfie. Alfie's breeder bred lovely looking working cockers (am sure the look was more important than anything) but from unregistered dogs and absoltutely no history of working them herself (even though they do have a great history further back). I can imagine the whole litter went to pet homes --- some hopefully knowing what they have and others not having a clue.

[Helen]

sorry, I'm going off topic here (kind of...)

I've done both agility and worked Jarv, and I can honestly say that he is far happier doing the job he was bred for than on an agility course - he really really likes agility, but he lives for pheasants, and it is a completely different level of excitement and happiness when he's in the field - I'm sure Nic will back me up on that, as I know her dogs are like that too.

I don't work him that much, a couple of shoots - but that's because of me.  He and I would enjoy rough shooting as I feel there's an element of sport in that, but I don't get any pleasure herding birds to their fate. So every morning we do gundog training to the best of my abilities - we've been out a couple of hours now, and he's flushed a few pheasants and he's happily knackered.  I was really proud this morning as I sent him out, he went in the direction he was instructed, flushed one cock pheasant (which flew perfectly above my head), froze and sat on his stop whistle, got permission to carry on and flushed 2 more again back over my head.     That is his idea of ecstasy, and the body language and sheer delight is evident.

Until I saw Jarv's attitude in the field I thought he was happy and content with our walks and agility training - now I now what his true passion is....

Call me completely barmy but I think I owe it to him to keep his in-bred instincts alive...and that to me is part of my commitment to having a working type gundog. 

I guess what I'm saying is how do we really know our dogs are truly happy, unless we've given them every opportunity to be what they're meant to be?  Perhaps other working dogs wouldn't enjoy working like Jarv does, but at least I know now what presses his buttons 

[Linz13]

I guess what I'm saying is how do we really know our dogs are truly happy, unless we've given them every opportunity to be what they're meant to be?  Perhaps other working dogs wouldn't enjoy working like Jarv does, but at least I know now what presses his buttons 

That made me a bit teary! 

Murphy (worker) was my first dog - I did know what I was letting myself into, I knew his doggy mum very well before pups came along, or were even thought about! Although we don't 'work' him, he is well exercised and I walk him in places where he can get off the lead and go sniffing all sorts of things!  His wee tail tells me he's happy...  To be honest Maddi (show) was more of a shock when she came along - I have never met two dogs so different, but they get along super, they are both happy wee dogs as far as I can tell - I love them both and spoil them rotten, and I am honoured to have been 'chosen' by the two of them and wouldn't change them for the world..... 

[SkyeSue]

I'm so pleased this has resulted in such an interesting thread and I really do value everyone's opinion. The reason I wanted a working cocker was purely because my neighbour has one (doesn't work her though) and I totally fell in love with this dog; she was just the best dog I'd ever met and was determined to get one just like her. I did do a lot of research and was fully aware of the difference between show dogs and working type and I remember reading on the Cocker Spaniel Society website that working types could make good pets "in the right hands". I wasn't terribly sure what the right hands meant, but I figured that being a mature but highly active woman with all the time in the world to dedicate to her dog and knowing that, when the dog is old enough, she would be spending hours and hours in the hills with me, I just might be "the right hands". And yes, nothing really prepared me for those early puppy days but I'm really enjoying her now and she seems to me to be as happy as a pup could be. I'm not really sure how strong her working drive is, though I suspect it probably is quite strong (if her love of charging around the undergrowth and chasing birds is anything to go by!) She does have 8 FT ch in 4 generations and both parents were working gundogs. Her breeder said he was happy for me to have her because he knew she would be exercised so much even though I had no intention of working her. However, since being on COL I have seriously considered getting her trained as a gun dog (although I don't really have an interest in the sport myself, but to be honest, there's nothing I wouldn't consider doing if I thought it would improve Chloe's quality of life.) The trouble is there's no shoots to my knowledge on Skye and the only people I know that train gun-dogs are renouned for using harsh methods and there is no way I'm going down that route. However, I'm still looking into it. Agility would also be an option (and something I think I would love myself too) but again..no classes locally.

Sorry for the long post...just wanted to fill you in on the background!

[Nicola]

sorry, I'm going off topic here (kind of...)

I've done both agility and worked Jarv, and I can honestly say that he is far happier doing the job he was bred for than on an agility course - he really really likes agility, but he lives for pheasants, and it is a completely different level of excitement and happiness when he's in the field - I'm sure Nic will back me up on that, as I know her dogs are like that too.

Yes, I did some beginner's agility with Alfie and he enjoyed it and was quite good at it but it didn't come close to how he is when he's working. Tilly wouldn't do agility if I paid her in gravy bones, I can just picture her face if she was confronted with a load of jumps and weaving poles   but she would work all day every day if she could, she's hunt and retrieve obsessed, it's just what they're meant to do. They really are different dogs when they know they're going out working and when they're actually doing it, it's hard to understand just now different it is to everything else for them unless you actually see it for yourself.

[PennyB]

sorry, I'm going off topic here (kind of...)

I've done both agility and worked Jarv, and I can honestly say that he is far happier doing the job he was bred for than on an agility course - he really really likes agility, but he lives for pheasants, and it is a completely different level of excitement and happiness when he's in the field - I'm sure Nic will back me up on that, as I know her dogs are like that too.

Yes, I did some beginner's agility with Alfie and he enjoyed it and was quite good at it but it didn't come close to how he is when he's working. Tilly wouldn't do agility if I paid her in gravy bones, I can just picture her face if she was confronted with a load of jumps and weaving poles   but she would work all day every day if she could, she's hunt and retrieve obsessed, it's just what they're meant to do. They really are different dogs when they know they're going out working and when they're actually doing it, it's hard to understand just now different it is to everything else for them unless you actually see it for yourself.

I agree with all this but its far better the numbers of workers that are being bought now that may be they would be better doing agility or at least using their brains in othe areas if the owners can't actually work them. Most rescues won't allow any dogs to work in the field on rehoming --- often they will go to active homes or if the dog really needs a lot more then they are used by the likes of the British Transport Police, Police or as assistance dogs

[kalem]

I guess what I'm saying is how do we really know our dogs are truly happy, unless we've given them every opportunity to be what they're meant to be?  Perhaps other working dogs wouldn't enjoy working like Jarv does, but at least I know now what presses his buttons 

I am sorry to say im  one of those owners who didnt do research, didnt know the difference between working and show, and let my heart rule my head, and believe me I have done Lucy no favours  I know im denying her the life she should be leading, she has a very very high need to run drive, and our city life lifestyle is no place for a working cocker, I work ( i know thats no excuse) so therefore she gets nowhere near as much exercise as she should, I love Lucy to bits and this ive discussed before. When I pulled the muscle in my shoulder and could only manage street walks, she was climbing the wall, its just not enough, After having Lemmy (Show)  there is a big difference between them and I really really think Working Cockers should go not necessary to working homes but to homes where there is fields and long runs available and to people who have the time and are willing to put in the long hours of walking and working with them, I really admire all of you with working cockers that manage to get such long walks and runs in with them, I wish my life was different and could give Lucy that kind of outdoorsy life, and every day I feel guilty 

[wrenside]

I don't think a working cocker is a city dog at all - just my opinion 

See now my two are the best behaved pair of dogs on the whole of Clapham Common in London

I agree that the energy that working cockers have means that they require an active home, and will need someone who's prepared to train them up to a high standard, otherwise they'll get bored and start doing norty things 
In my opinion keeping a working cockers head full through a full on training regime is far more effective at keeping a working cocker calm than by taking it for endless walks/runs off lead. Obviously they need quite a bit of exercise, but I value brain training a lot 
So I suppose I'm part of the camp that feels that working cockers can and do make wonderful family pets in a city environment, only the owners have to be really hot on their training and understand what they're taking on energy wise  Certainly not the easiest breed of dog in the world.

A Working cocker was my first ever dog and I absolutely love them 

Kalu, if you don't have the time to take Lucy out for lots of long walks then may I suggest that you play some games with her when you take her out and also at home. Simple things like 15mins of going over basic commands like sit, lie, stay etc... then maybe start teaching her roll over etc... combine this with a couple of retrieves and lots of praise. Then next time you do a 15min session, change the order of the commands etc... This will make Lucy use her head a lot more when out on walks and at home. Working cockers need to be busy, so if you keep her head full of constructive things then she'll probably be much happier in herself. 

Skysue, you lucky thing living on the Isle of Skye! I'd recommend that you teach Chloe basic gundog training even if you never actually take her out beating. It's great fun for both you and the dog, and if you ever get the chance to do a bit of beating in the future you'll have suitably trained novice dog ready and waiting 

Best wishes,

Mary xxx

[Beth]

What do you actually need to teach for basic gundog training? Jarvis has a pretty high working drive for a mostly show type but i have no idea what to do with it. (i'm guessing letting him chase bunnies/seagulls is norty )

[SkyeSue]

I guess what I'm saying is how do we really know our dogs are truly happy, unless we've given them every opportunity to be what they're meant to be?  Perhaps other working dogs wouldn't enjoy working like Jarv does, but at least I know now what presses his buttons 

I am sorry to say im  one of those owners who didnt do research, didnt know the difference between working and show, and let my heart rule my head, and believe me I have done Lucy no favours  I know im denying her the life she should be leading, she has a very very high need to run drive, and our city life lifestyle is no place for a working cocker, I work ( i know thats no excuse) so therefore she gets nowhere near as much exercise as she should, I love Lucy to bits and this ive discussed before. When I pulled the muscle in my shoulder and could only manage street walks, she was climbing the wall, its just not enough, After having Lemmy (Show)  there is a big difference between them and I really really think Working Cockers should go not necessary to working homes but to homes where there is fields and long runs available and to people who have the time and are willing to put in the long hours of walking and working with them, I really admire all of you with working cockers that manage to get such long walks and runs in with them, I wish my life was different and could give Lucy that kind of outdoorsy life, and every day I feel guilty 

Don't feel guilty...from reading other threads on here, there are many in your position.  New members are joining all the time that are doing exactly what you did. The thing is, we can't turn the clocks back so the only thing to do is love and care for our dogs in the best way we can. I know people make judgements...it happens to me with Chloe (hence why I started this thread) ..but I've got her now...I adore her...and I shall do my best by her, even though that might not be good enough in some people's eyes.

[Nicola]

What do you actually need to teach for basic gundog training? Jarvis has a pretty high working drive for a mostly show type but i have no idea what to do with it. (i'm guessing letting him chase bunnies/seagulls is norty )

It depends what you want to do but yep teaching them not to chase things is definitely an important part of it  In training sessions with mine I send them into different kinds of cover to do some hunting and flushing, sometimes I throw a dummy in there without them seeing so they find it and sometimes I just send them in to flush out whatever's in there. I also practise their open ground hunting and quartering incorporating distance commands, direction changes and stop whistle. Retrieving wise we might do a couple of water retrieves, a couple of blind retrieves where I put the dummy out without them seeing and send them out to find it which practises their distance commands, a couple of 'go back' retrieves where I throw the dummy and then walk off with them at heel then send them back to find it... there are loads of possibilities.

[SkyeSue]

What do you actually need to teach for basic gundog training? Jarvis has a pretty high working drive for a mostly show type but i have no idea what to do with it. (i'm guessing letting him chase bunnies/seagulls is norty )

Everything Beth said!!!!

[wrenside]

Sitting
Sitting at a distance
lying
lying at a distance
thrown retrieves (the dog runs in -first stage)
Thrown retrieves (the dog sits and waits for the command to fetch - better than running in)
Thrown retrieves (directional - two dummies are thrown in different directions, the dog sits and stays, then you ask the dog to go and fetch whichever dummy you want first)

Hunting close in to you (I used to walk through tallish grass and every now and again drop a dummy near my feet when the dog wasn't watching and ask the dog to "find it" this way the dogs only ever find the dummies in close rage to you and so learn not to hunt to far out in front)

Teach the "back" command - where you tell the dog to search a bit further ahead for a retrieve

Stop whistle - important for bunnies and seagulls! 

Theres a few of the basic gundog training things to have a go at  I'd suggest that you try working up to the directional dog retrieves, as this can be really good fun for you and the dog. Also the dog can't second guess you, and so will be using his brain a lot and also concentrating hard on the commands that you issue, so its a real good bonding and trust exercise too 

Mary xx