would like advice on puppy

[Helen]

updated - found a breeder in dorset - working cocker, not docked as for sale as family pets asked all health testing questions, meeting the damn and sire on saturday along with pups - am i excited - yes - is it saturday yet?   

I'm sorry to sound a spoil sport but I disagree with breeding working cockers purely as pets and would steer away from breeders that didn't work their dogs or train them for working or participated in activities such as agility with them.

what health testing did you ask about?  Hip dysplacia is becoming more common in working cockers, they should be PRA Optigen tested as well as BVA eye tested....

[JohnW]

updated - found a breeder in dorset - working cocker, not docked as for sale as family pets asked all health testing questions, meeting the damn and sire on saturday along with pups - am i excited - yes - is it saturday yet?   

I'm sorry to sound a spoil sport but I disagree with breeding working cockers purely as pets and would steer away from breeders that didn't work their dogs or train them for working or participated in activities such as agility with them.

what health testing did you ask about?  Hip dysplacia is becoming more common in working cockers, they should be PRA Optigen tested as well as BVA eye tested....

Hi Scoonsey I must admit I do now agree with livercake on this working cocker's need alot of stimulation and activity either in working or agility or even competitive flyball. I recently got more involved with such activities with my lot and I can now understand working cocker's are bred to focus on such activities, they are a focused little dog that needs some sort of stimulation wether it be working,agility,flyball etc but nevertheless they are a much better dog when they are stimulated physically as well as mentally, I commend you for taking time to research what is Best for you and if you are thinking about taking on a worker you will have an active little friendly dog that will probably need lots of exercise, preferably you will do some sort of active with him or her and you will have a little friend for life. I have both show and working and i find my show girl more easy going as a pet dog but she is just as robust when she is out on walks and WILL keep up with the workers, If it is just a pet you are after I personally wouldn't worry too much about hip scored parents but you should at least look at BVA annual eye certificates, PRA and FN would be a bonus but I don't think many breeders do these tests at present but in time more breeders will do these tests I am sure  . With gentle persuasion from sites like COL  I hope you find the right puppy for your family and hopefully you will post pics on here real soon. Good luck with your new puppy.

[Cob-Web]

PRA and FN would be a bonus but I don't think many breeders do these tests at present but in time more breeders will do these tests I am sure  . With gentle persuasion from sites like COL 

Only if buyers begin in to distinguish between those breeders who do, and those who don't   

I just don't understand breeders who decide not to carry out Optigen testing, despite the fact that it is the best possible way of establishing the future health of the puppies - and in this case, where the puppy sought is primarily for companionship, then I see very little justification for buying a puppy from a breeder who doesn't put the health of the puppies ahead of the profit to be made 

[smartietopdog]

I know all of you COL's take puppies very seriously, and alot of you work them. This is fantastic, and is good for the dogs I agree.
 BUT..............some of us do just want the cocker as a pet at the end of the day, and if homework is done with the health checks and parents etc, you can get yourself a fantastic dog for the family environment. I have a show and a worker and while they couldn't be more different, my worker is a fantastic "pet"
She is a lovely dog, very content, gets exercised as much as she needs, and is as loving as any child!
I appreciate it can be a serious working breed, but can also be a great companion.
Good luck with picking a pup, I would have them all. And you are totally entitled to be fidgety all week with excitement! (sorry if I have upset anyone with my totally laid back opinion)

[Mudmagnets]

I know all of you COL's take puppies very seriously, and alot of you work them. This is fantastic, and is good for the dogs I agree.
 BUT..............some of us do just want the cocker as a pet at the end of the day, and if homework is done with the health checks and parents etc, you can get yourself a fantastic dog for the family environment. I have a show and a worker and while they couldn't be more different, my worker is a fantastic "pet"
She is a lovely dog, very content, gets exercised as much as she needs, and is as loving as any child!
I appreciate it can be a serious working breed, but can also be a great companion.
Good luck with picking a pup, I would have them all. And you are totally entitled to be fidgety all week with excitement! (sorry if I have upset anyone with my totally laid back opinion)

I agree with you, Katie is half work/show and as long as she gets enough exercise, does not cause too many problems  being still young,  both of mine get into mischief, but I doubt any more so than average. She will quite happily lay down in the evenings and nod off. In fact she is now laying down snoozing after having been out in the garden. She is as soft as Smudge for cuddles and love (me show-type boy).

I would not say either of them are perfect specimens, she does have a fascination with water, and has boundless energy (but then she's a cocker)  but at the end of the day I would not swap them for all the tea in china.

Having read all the opinions/advice so far, I expect by now you have some idea what you want to do, and I am pretty certain COL'rs will welcome your new playmate and insist on pictures when you get him/her.

[JohnW]

PRA and FN would be a bonus but I don't think many breeders do these tests at present but in time more breeders will do these tests I am sure  . With gentle persuasion from sites like COL 

Only if buyers begin in to distinguish between those breeders who do, and those who don't   

I just don't understand breeders who decide not to carry out Optigen testing, despite the fact that it is the best possible way of establishing the future health of the puppies - and in this case, where the puppy sought is primarily for companionship, then I see very little justification for buying a puppy from a breeder who doesn't put the health of the puppies ahead of the profit to be made 

Cob-web I don't disagree with your thoughts but on the whole PRA and FN testing, But the way i read it is the PRA and FN are recent health screening packages and alot of breeders and pet owners are still ignorant of them, my point was Thankfully sites like COL are making people aware of the screening packages available and the benefits of them, If you look through some of the websites belonging to some of the more well known FTCH dogs there are very few that have any kind of screening done (or at least it doesnt show on the Kennel Club Register). I think at present the way the testing has to be done and sent to Antigen in France and Optigen In the US also is a bit of a nightmare and I personally can't understand why these tests can't be done in this country yet, This can also Deter people from going ahead with the screeing at present. . Like I have said in previous postings It's about Gentle persuasion and encouragement with Breeders and not about just assuming the worst from them. sorry to go off track a bit OP.

[Jane S]

These tests aren't particularly new John and while you're right, a lot of breeders don't know about them (or say they don't know about them), that's not really an excuse as there is so much information available for breeders who are willing to do their homework first (it's not just puppy buyers who act without doing any research sadly). As far as sending tests away to laboratories outside the UK, I'm afraid we're stuck with that as these DNA tests are patented and license conditions then specify who can offer the tests and where. I don't think that using Optigen/Antagene is actually much of a problem - show breeders seem to have got used to the whole idea pretty quickly so I can see no reason why working breeders can't do the same. If breeders are deterred from using the tests because of the inconvenience of having to send samples abroad, it doesn't say much for their commitment to the breed does it? The problem is more that historically there has not been a culture of any kind of health testing amongst many working breeders and it's this that needs to change (and hopefully is changing)

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I know all of you COL's take puppies very seriously, and alot of you work them. This is fantastic, and is good for the dogs I agree.
 BUT..............some of us do just want the cocker as a pet at the end of the day, and if homework is done with the health checks and parents etc, you can get yourself a fantastic dog for the family environment. I have a show and a worker and while they couldn't be more different, my worker is a fantastic "pet"
She is a lovely dog, very content, gets exercised as much as she needs, and is as loving as any child!
I appreciate it can be a serious working breed, but can also be a great companion.
Good luck with picking a pup, I would have them all. And you are totally entitled to be fidgety all week with excitement! (sorry if I have upset anyone with my totally laid back opinion)

A lot of people on COL own workers and don't actually work them also and there is a limit to how many shoots there are and how many dogs are needed for these shoots anyway!  I also own a Weimaraner with a very strong hunt drive, big exercise demands and huge brains that need a lot of occupying. She was a lot of trouble initially but I was expecting that and was hoping for that in my second cocker but didn't get it which is why I got the Weim. It's what I wanted in a dog and gives you the scope to have a lot of fun with them also. I've done some agility with her and some gundog stuff and we often take dummies on walks with us and hide them for her etc which we all enjoy and recently for a change, we've all started mountain biking together which both dogs LOVE. However, although we enjoy the training and playing at being a gun dog , I can't see myself ever taking her to a shoot - I don't like killing things or watching them being killed for a start  

I live in a rural village and there are several families that own working cockers and springers at my sons school most of them don't work 'at shoots' but they are all happy fit dogs and get to do a lot of 'stuff' with their families. Lots of working cockers go to pet homes every year and whilst it's very good to reiterate the needs of these dogs and be realistic about providing them with a certain type of life style, they are out there, they need homes and I don't think it's a good thing to rule them out as family pets. If someone is prepared to do the research and knows what they are (potentially) getting into and appreciates that their new dog will need an active stimulating life.. then the fact that they aren't going to work their dog shouldn't be a full on reason for not taking one on... in my opinion. Plus, as I've said previously, my last show type cocker was far more busy, hunty, constantly on the go and over the top than any of the workers I've met. So with either type of cocker, you can end up with a dog that needs HUGE amounts of stuff to do.

Hannah xxx

[JohnW]

These tests aren't particularly new John and while you're right, a lot of breeders don't know about them (or say they don't know about them), that's not really an excuse as there is so much information available for breeders who are willing to do their homework first (it's not just puppy buyers who act without doing any research sadly). As far as sending tests away to laboratories outside the UK, I'm afraid we're stuck with that as these DNA tests are patented and license conditions then specify who can offer the tests and where. I don't think that using Optigen/Antagene is actually much of a problem - show breeders seem to have got used to the whole idea pretty quickly so I can see no reason why working breeders can't do the same. If breeders are deterred from using the tests because of the inconvenience of having to send samples abroad, it doesn't say much for their commitment to the breed does it? The problem is more that historically there has not been a culture of any kind of health testing amongst many working breeders and it's this that needs to change (and hopefully is changing)

To Be honest Jane I can't really argue on the side of working Kennels as you are very correct in what you say but I think it's gradually changing as puppy buyers are now alot more informed on health screening and expect PRA tests etc being done Maybe The Kennel club should take more of a lead and be more informed on such matters too as I have phoned them on more than one occasion on health screening issues and they always seem very limited in what information and advise they can give. Maybe its about time dogs entering trials and shows should be screened too as these dogs once winning the said trials and shows then become first choice studs for breeders, dunno just a thought

[Scoonesey]

Update - So we saw the litter yesterday - obviously they were gorg all pups are. We met mum and dad and both were very friendly happy for you to cuddle them. mum was letting you pick litter up i think she had, had enough of them...there are 7!! We made sure we played with mum and dad was kepted outside so we went to meet him and the other 3 they had ( the bloke shoots). It is her 2nd litter -  i asked to see mum and dads papers- which he did, but when asked about kc reg (i think thats right!!) they said mum and dad are but not pups as they find people aren't bothered by this anymore but said they can get it done if we want for £25~!? this right? Do have pic of pup but not sure how i get it on here as it was took on my phone.

Now names - i like daisy, OH likes pip

[Jeanette]

See the attached link about finding a reputable breeder, your question is in there.

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=2019.0

[Jane S]

It is her 2nd litter -  i asked to see mum and dads papers- which he did, but when asked about kc reg (i think thats right!!) they said mum and dad are but not pups as they find people aren't bothered by this anymore but said they can get it done if we want for £25~!? this right? Do have pic of pup but not sure how i get it on here as it was took on my phone.

Sorry but I would run a mile from someone who was going to charge a buyer £25 for something which costs only £12 (the KC charges £12 to register each puppy in a litter). Where does the £25 come from? Also did you ask to see the health testing certificates? You should at least have been able to see the eye test certificates (even if no other tests had been done) although in my experience unregistered puppies are the least likely to have health tested parents.

[Helen]

It is her 2nd litter -  i asked to see mum and dads papers- which he did, but when asked about kc reg (i think thats right!!) they said mum and dad are but not pups as they find people aren't bothered by this anymore but said they can get it done if we want for £25~!? this right? Do have pic of pup but not sure how i get it on here as it was took on my phone.

Sorry but I would run a mile from someone who was going to charge a buyer £25 for something which costs only £12 (the KC charges £12 to register each puppy in a litter). Where does the £25 come from? Also did you ask to see the health testing certificates? You should at least have been able to see the eye test certificates (even if no other tests had been done) although in my experience unregistered puppies are the least likely to have health tested parents.

agree with Jane 100 percent - and I think nearly all puppy buyers would be 'bothered' about KC papers   

I doubt whether this litter has had any health testing whatsoever....

[smartietopdog]

oooh, I take it you picked a girl? What colour?!
 My worker was unregistered when I bought her, But I was given all the paper work to do it myself if I wanted.
As I said before, as I always wanted her as a pet, and not to breed from, I wasn't too worried. She had her health checked at the vets as soon as I got her, and was a picture of health.
She is the loveliest dog I could wish for, and I wouldn't change her for the world.
So I guess what I'm saying - *preparing self for attack* - is, if your happy with your pup, and everything you've asked, you're happy with, enjoy!
Having picked your girl, I don't think I could change my mind...........

[Cob-Web]

She had her health checked at the vets as soon as I got her, and was a picture of health.

This is not what people on this site mean when they refer to health checked/screened - although of course it is important, too.

Cocker spaniels carry a gene for a disease called PRA, which causes blindness at a young age.  There is a genetic blood test (Optigen) that breeders can have carried out on the bitch and dog, in order to prevent litters of puppies being born with this gene combination.  Other eye diseases can also be detected through annual, specialist screening of the bitch/dog - again, if there are signs of the disease, then the breeder can avoid breeding a litter that will develop the disease.

if your happy with your pup, and everything you've asked, you're happy with, enjoy!

...I don't see how anyone could be "happy" - when they know that the breeder hadn't taken care to ensure the litter had the best possible chance of good health......