Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?

[Coco]

Just looking at a thread for someone seeking a working cocker and the arguments put forward for a non working family to not take one on. It seems the working owners who have them as pets think it can be done, while those that do work their dogs can't see it working.

It has me thinking Wherry would go out of her head if she didn't get the opportunity to be worked, to be out of the house all day, freedom and discipline. Gizmo on the other hand, while she will go all day and loves it, but, is still happy in the house in a pet lifestyle, getting more standard walks and training. They both come from FTCH backgrounds, working parents etc etc
So I wonder if the difference is that Wherry had that lifestyle from day one and is used to it where as Giz has had a more sedate lifestyle from the start. As such, have they just adapted to what they are used to, is this why other owners feel the way they do about workers in pet homes because of their own experience and have their dogs also adapted??
It is true that Giz didn't have the natural aptitude that Wherry did from the start but, perhaps I didn't bring it out of her? I guess its a nature, nurture question.
Or, is it just that I managed, despite their backgrounds and what they 'should' be like, to get two ends of a spectrum regardless.  
ETA: I Realise that there are those that have come from very 'undilited' working backgrounds and those that come from very 'diluted', it would make sense that those who very activly work have sought a very, very strong background and possibly vice versa. I'm thinking on farm bred, gamekeeper bred types rather than direct FT types or commercial bred.

[Sarah1985]

I dont work my working cockers in the traditional sense and they have both adapted very well to pet life style. One is a "pet bred" worker and one is a working farm bred worker whose parents and siblings are actively worked (she was considered too small). Both from what id considered to be undiluted lines.

However I do ALOT of activities with my dogs. For example at the min we are taking part in a flyball team, traning for aglity, there are obedeince classes startin next month and Ive somehow roped myself into being a demo dog for the puppy obedeince class. In the past we've had a  go at Rally O, sniffing classes and I self teach them HWTM and do some basic gundog exercises.  I also love walking in the peaks so they get a fair amount of exposure to lots of lovely smells and sights as well as frquent trips to the park and to the local river for a swim


I love my dogs and spending time with them so I suspect thats why they cope so well  with pet life, is it because I do so much with them? (despite it not being the traditional gundog "work") I  know people say show cockers can be just as energetic but I do wonder if your average show could keep up with what Id want from a dog. I suppose they'd adapt and get fitter but I love my dogs for wanting to take part in the next thing I have planned and having the energy to give it their all

Ive noticed a huge increase in working cockers coming to flyball of the new starters 4 out of 6 are working cockers . And alot of the owners all say the same thing, That they are looking for a way of controlling their energy levels. I do wonder if they are taking up a doggy hobby out of necessity rather than actually wanting to participate.

[Harveypops]

We don't work Harvey although we have done a lot fo obedieince training and started gundog training. He now does flyball which seems to suit him more as he is so speedy:005:

Although he's never been worked a lot of the training and playing we do involes retireving, and smelling out toys and his dummy. Even though we both work Harvey gets loads of exercise and mental stimulation each day.

Is it enough? Well, he never seems restless. Even though he is active so and so he is a lazy one so loves his home comforts. We also went to a very good breeder who, even though we picked harvey ourselves, steered us towards him as I think she knew he would suit a non-working home.

I think if you take on any working breed of dog you need to put the time and effort in. I think these dogs need a purpouse so definitly need training!harvey is always looking for the next command!

Christina
-x-

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, I've typed it from my phone so can't preview it!

[johndoran]

Bonnie Boo came from a working background and though she is a very busy little girl,I do spend a lot of time with her,plenty of walks,plenty of play. I think its something you have to acknowledge from the start, for the dogs well being as well as your own sanity

[Karma]

I think there are many Working bred Cockers who can adapt very well to a pet lifestyle.

BUT I also think there are many that just can't and need far more than your average pet home - whether that be working in the field they were designed to or a very full regime of different activities (such as agility, flyball, obedience, clicker training etc) depends on the dog (Honey, only 3/4 worker, loves her agility and I'm sure prefers this to the opportunity to actually work, but for others while they may enjoy something like agility, their real forte is actual working in the field...)

The difficulty is that I don't think you can guarantee which you would get when buying a pup - yes you can look at lines, and the temperament of the dam and sire etc, but this is only an indication.  So, if you were getting a working bred pup you need to be prepared for the fact that it may need a suitable outlet for that working mind...

I do wonder whether the way you bring them up plays a role too - I know I worked hard when Honey was a pup to make sure she knew how to swtich off and relax in the house... whether the fact that she is now very chilled in the house is because of that, or because of her personality anyway, it's hard to know.

I would love a pure Worker in future but I would look to rescue.... while I would love a Worker pup (and maybe, once baby is an adult and I would have time to devote to even the most switched on little Worker pup!) I don't think my lifestyle for the next few years is ideal to take the risk that they could have a very high working drive.  If I feel the need for a pup, I would go for a show type... (and hope they were a particularly active one!!!!)

[Helen]

Agree with Karma.

and I also think that they don't lose their instinct but they obviously can adapt as they've never had the choice ...my question would be how do you know your pet working cocker is truly fulfilled until you've tried working them?

I've tried agility and flyball with Jarvis but NOTHING presses his buttons more than working and gun dog training 

[Nicola]

I pretty much agree with what Karma has said. It's probably no secret that I don't agree with working Cockers being bred purely for the pet market and sold as 'normal' family pets. I think that some of them can make good pets for the right homes - i.e. the kind of home that wants to either do some working with them or participate in some other activities but the majority of pet homes who are just looking for a fairly active dog that likes to go on long walks at weekends I think would be better suited to a non-working bred dog (or a non-working bred dog would be better suited to these homes).

I think there seems to be a bit of a misconception that show Cockers are lazy and if you want a pet that's up for long walks you have to go for a worker and I don't think that's true. I think a show Cocker is going to be adequate for the needs of most 'normal' pet homes and the likelihood of it fitting in well to that lifestyle is probably higher than a high-drive working Cocker. You don't see many show Cockers being given up because they're 'not active enough' whereas the number of working Cockers given up because they're 'too active' is pretty high.

As said while there are some working Cockers who seem to adapt ok to being pets you just don't know how the pup is going to turn out when you buy it. Daisy who is still with me is a classic case in point of this. You can examine pedigrees etc. and that can tell you a certain amount (more so if you understand them properly and know the lines and the dogs) but there are always going to be exceptions. Also if you've never seen what a working Cocker can be like when they get to work believe me there is a difference, they turn into different dogs, to me they just come alive and it's like nothing else to them.

Of my own dogs Tilly (illness notwithstanding) would possibly be ok in a pet home now as long as she got plenty of training and especially retrieving but then again she's 6 years old, when she was younger I doubt it. Rodaidh would be more difficult, he was bred by a gundog trainer who breeds shooting - as opposed to trialling -dogs. He's a real hunter and I think without that being channelled properly he could be tricky and he's really not into things like agility, flyball etc. We've dabbled a bit and it's just not his bag, the only other thing he seems to like is scentwork/tracking but even then he doesn't get nearly as naturally enthusiastic as he does for working. Knowing Rodaidh I think that without the chance to fulfil his natural drives he could have turned into quite a neurotic dog.

Caoimhe absolutely would never make a good pet, she's got the highest of high drives, even her trialling trainer calls her 'the whirlwind' - to me this is exactly how she should be but in your average pet home she would have gone crazy - and driven the people crazy - by now. When she gets to work and has her training she's a great dog and lovely to have around but she needs this every day and without it I can't imagine what she'd be like. However, Caoimhe is also a good example of pedigrees being potentially misleading, although her father is a Championship winner and his side of the pedigree is very 'red' her dam's side has barely any FTCh in it at all. To someone who doesn't actually know anything about the lines and the dogs in the pedigree they'd just look at it, see very little red and think 'oh she's not going to be that high-drive' whereas it's the opposite. Those lines may not be trialling dogs but they are old, 'pure' working lines which produce strong working dogs and a novice owner/buyer would not know that from just looking at the pedigree, you need to know about the dogs. The main reasons I bought Caoimhe were first of all her character from having met her and then her dam's pedigree.

I think too many people choose a type of dog because it's just what they decide they want - regardless of breed traits and lifestyle suitability - and they expect the dog to just fit into their lifestyle whereas I see it the other way around. I bought my dogs because I want to participate in the activities that they are designed and bred for. I work to their ideal lifestyle rather than the other way around. If I didn't work my dogs and I just wanted pets I doubt if I'd have Rodaidh and I definitely wouldn't have Caoimhe, I'd probably have a mixture of rescue dogs.

[JaspersMum]

Lou has only 1/4 worker in his genes.  He is lovely in the house, barks the least of the 4 of them and has been the least destructive as a puppy, but I catch a look about him sometimes where he seems flat and depressed.  He comes alive when he's out in the woods doing his thing and I know he'd enjoy agility or the like given more hours in the day to commit to it. His recall is OK (not perfect) but I feel he has to have the outlet of being able to RUN free and range further than the others!!!! I know he'll come back, I know he's safe in the area I walk so I don't have a problem with this but I can imagine others dieing a thousand times.  I honestly couldn't see him in a town type pet home where he walks on the lead and a quick run in the park.

A friend recently asked for help in finding a cocker and I've told him on no account must he get a working type as I don't see it working for him.  I guess what I'm saying is that I'd have reservations about a worker in a pet home UNLESS they are the real outdoors type, walk all weathers and prepared to put a lot more into it than the average pet dog.  And that's just on the basis of 25% gene dilution 

[Coco]

It's interesting to hear from you Nic as a multi dog owner (and everyone else of course  ) as I guess it addresses the nature/nurture question. You obviously treat the dogs the same to a large extent yet you say that one could adapt and one couldn't.
I guess that's the answer, that you can make a very educated guess at what you are getting but you never know for sure. And, as much of an impact as you can have their nature comes through.

I also think that they don't lose their instinct but they obviously can adapt as they've never had the choice ...my question would be how do you know your pet working cocker is truly fulfilled until you've tried working them?

I guess you can't know if they are truly fulfilled but you do know if they are not getting enough from life or are desperate to break away.


If I'd have known the circumstances of Ex and I splitting I'd have never have gotten Gizmo. (We lived on a farm with a shoot that ran almost everyday in season we could have beat on, dogging in, 1000s of acres of farm etc, now it would be a case of a day here and there if we were lucky) Also, if she had have been like Wherry I would have left her with him in the life that she would have wanted and I couldn't provide. It was obvious from a young age, despite everything Giz wasn't that keen on the whole gundog thing in the way that Wherry was from the start. If we would have stayed together I would have pushed harder with her, encouraged it more, but we split when Giz was young enough that I was still trying to 'let her grow up a bit' and try again. Since the opportunity isn't easily available now for us to work, Gizmo is my pet, rather than my beating dog as origionally designed. But given that she wasn't that interested anyway I don't feel that she is missing out or is unhappy with this. Perhaps if we tried again she would be but I suspect she still wouldn't be suited.

It saddens me though that I am now a working cocker devotee but the chances are that after Gizmo I won't have another. If I knew I was going to be a purely 'pet' owner I wouldn't do it. What I would consider is a working cocker and doing doggy activities with them but even then, as you say Helen, I agree that it is amazing to see a w. cocker work and how much they love it so unless I had a rescue I don't think I could.

I guess I'm a working cocker pet owner who disagrees with it  Thankfully Giz is the way she is and that she has adapted to her lifestyle but really thinking about it, I think she wasn't destined to work as such. I wouldn't take the risk again though unless I was prepared to go down the gundog training route, actively seek shoots etc.

[Rosie]

I spend a lot of time in agility questioning people about whether they want a worker or not - and these in the main are experienced dog owners!

The reason - many a collie owner has taken one on and struggled!!  However, I also know that Spice is an extremely busy, active and naughty little girl who I adore beyond all measure but also understand why her breeder took a lot of persuading that agility would "work" her enough - I do not think she would have lasted 6 months in a less active home. BUT I do know of workers (and not nec from agility lines) who are nothing like as hyper as madam.

I think to think that they may partly adapt but that there is a bit of both nature and nuture there and that however calm your life is with a very high drive worker if not kept mentally and physically active even from a young age would still become stir crazy and destructive even if taken on at 8 weeks or 4 years.

[woodlander]

Sweep is a "pet" worker she has known nothing else.  We were ignorant about the two strains of cockers and I am sorry to say (having learnt loads from this site) we did not acquire her in the best way.  However, she has a lovely temperament and seems to be a very happy contented little dog (she is quite small for a working cocker).  Also recently we have discovered she has a congenital foot problem which means her working life would have very short.  She loves nothing more than curling up on the sofa as well as charging around the garden and beach!!!!

As many have said before depends very much on the dog.

[Alex77]

an interesting topic.  When i got Jasper, i hadn't given an awful lot of thought to worker or pet type, just concerned mainly with where i could get a well bred, appropriately health tested, happy pup.  The initial bonus from working type cockers from my point of view, is they tend to have less hair!! which though i love hairy dogs, having two already i thought one thats not bred to have profuse hair, or with too much emphasis on looks, might not be so bad.  And in the main, i was right.  His parents were from working lines, were both workers and mum lived in the house and was the family pet (didn't meet dad as belonged to someone else).  A lovely dog and good mum she was, and a great dog Jasper is i must say.  But he is full of energy, and you won't get away with a short walk, or a lay in.  ever!  he needs to be kept occupied, and thankfully i can meet his needs.  However, i did appreciate that any cocker size dog will be full of energy and need lots of stimulation and exercise all equalling time, before i got him. 

It always makes me laugh when people thinking of getting a dog say, "yes but i want an active breed cause i want a dog thats gonna get me out walking, long walks, a dog thats really up to a long walk cause i#m really trying to get fit!...

my first dog was a japanes chin (papillon size if you don' know it) and she could do a ten mile hike if you had time.  But a game in the garden would suffice for  the odd occasion if you couldn'#t afford longer!  it's these same people who end up with a sad, a!ways pulling  barely walked overweight dog!  (sorry  but don't they make you mad@)
At the end of the day, i wouldn't change my working bred cocker for the world, but i might think twice in the future, bearing in mind how much time and or energy you really want to put into your dogs wellbeing.  does  that makes sense??!

[Helen]

an interesting topic.  When i got Jasper, i hadn't given an awful lot of thought to worker or pet type, just concerned mainly with where i could get a well bred, appropriately health tested, happy pup.  The initial bonus from working type cockers from my point of view, is they tend to have less hair!! which though i love hairy dogs, having two already i thought one thats not bred to have profuse hair, or with too much emphasis on looks, might not be so bad.  And in the main, i was right.  His parents were from working lines, were both workers and mum lived in the house and was the family pet (didn't meet dad as belonged to someone else).  A lovely dog and good mum she was, and a great dog Jasper is i must say.  But he is full of energy, and you won't get away with a short walk, or a lay in.  ever!  he needs to be kept occupied, and thankfully i can meet his needs.  However, i did appreciate that any cocker size dog will be full of energy and need lots of stimulation and exercise all equalling time, before i got him. 

It always makes me laugh when people thinking of getting a dog say, "yes but i want an active breed cause i want a dog thats gonna get me out walking, long walks, a dog thats really up to a long walk cause i#m really trying to get fit!...

my first dog was a japanes chin (papillon size if you don' know it) and she could do a ten mile hike if you had time.  But a game in the garden would suffice for  the odd occasion if you couldn'#t afford longer!  it's these same people who end up with a sad, a!ways pulling  barely walked overweight dog!  (sorry  but don't they make you mad@)
At the end of the day, i wouldn't change my working bred cocker for the world, but i might think twice in the future, bearing in mind how much time and or energy you really want to put into your dogs wellbeing.  does  that makes sense??!

I'm interested in what health tests you relied on?  Were his parents hip scored? Optigen eye tested?

[Top Barks]

I think workers can succeed in pet homes but IMO they do best where that is an experienced home, prepared to put a lot of work into the dog and its training.
I think you should try and give the dog an outlet for it's natural instincts even if you don't work them as well as engaging them in other appropriate canine activities.
I do dispair when a client phones up, tell me they have a working cocker and I go round to see them only to find they are ignorant regarding the breed and have no idea what they have taken on.
Some owners see problems where I just see potential such is their lack of understanding.
I am also totally opposed to hypocritical breeders harping on about not breeding for the pet market and diluting working instincts yet studding their FT dogs to all and sundry which achieves both of these things.
My working cocker's are all pets first and foremost, and I am in such a good place with them at the moment regarding their training and our relationship, but I have worked really really hard to understand them and give them what they need and unfortunately that is not something all pet owners who take on a worker have the ability or time to do.
I must also stress that some of the show cocker's I see are also just as high maintenance.

[Black Red + Yellow]

Short answer = Yes but I wouldn't never contemplate trying this without plenty of training ourselves

I have two workers - very different in personality and working style - Alfie the ginger one was kept as a pet until he came to live with us at 15 months.......we've turned him into a excellent dogging in dog and retriever because he is such a steady dog - he isn't a fast flushing dog but this means the two boys can be worked together as they have such lovely opposite styles - perfect for hubby so that he can rest the Nutter Finn on of some the drives and perfect for Alfie because he hasn't got the same stamina to manage them all.

Finn the black one is a very high drive all round worker that flushes and retrieves and even does a bit of exhibition stuff at some of the shoots my hubby goes on - he lives quite happily in the house - much to the amusement of many people that we know in the gundog world that would only ever kennel their workers....we get the mickey taken out of us because Finn is groomed and smells 100 times better than many of theirs too (what you bath your dog!) - many of them chuckle about it all when they find out - you can see the looks on their faces with their rolling in their head eyes but the smirk is on the other side of the face when our 'house' dog goes to work  Granted, Finn has a crate in the house as he can be a bit of a chewer but we are always complimented how calm they are in the house and our simple answer is........train, walk and play.......everyday........it's a lifestyle you have become accustomed to everyday...it's not fairweather stuff