Author Topic: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?  (Read 14186 times)

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Offline Hurtwood Dogs

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2010, 04:37:45 PM »
I must also stress that some of the show cocker's I see are also just as high maintenance.

That's so nice to hear you say that Mark.. I've had one of those and I swear no one believes me :lol2:

Hannah, Dave & Normy xx

Trev 2001-07 soul dog, always in my heart and dreams x

Offline Cockertime Blues

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2010, 05:15:13 PM »

Agree with Jaspers Mum above.  And I'm another pet home working cocker owner who thinks they shouldn't really be in pet homes.   ph34r 

All thanks to Nicola, Alfie's pretty good.  I let him do his own thing for an hour or so every morning and most days for another hour in the evenings.  He's in huge, safe woods, his recall is good and the only thing I have to worry about is him flushing a roe deer.  He's also good on the lead, but I know I will never go for a normal relaxed off-leash dog walk with him in a new place (what I call a labrador walk).  I cannot trust him and I used to beat myself up about this but life's too short.  Seems like I have to tell him to heel every 10 seconds, and sometimes he even has to think about that and decide whether he's got something more important going on.  Around the house he's perfect.  However, when we're out in fields and I do gundog-type stuff (within my limited knowledge) or set him tasks, his little face just lights up with joy.

Have to say, we rehomed a working springer from a working home when she was 5 or 6 and she adjusted to being a pet perfectly, but I think cockers are much more difficult than springers.

It's personal preference, but I just find the looks of a worker so much more attractive than show cockers but in all honesty I wouldn't take on another.  But then, Alfie is my only benchmark.  Maybe he's just loopier than most or maybe I'm the most inept dog owner in the world.  I love him the way he is anyway.

What I want to know is - what about failed workers?  They have to become pets don't they?

Offline JeffandAnnie

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 06:07:08 PM »
It seems the working owners who have them as pets think it can be done, while those that do work their dogs can't see it working.


Or could it be that the pet owners who think it CAN be done are the ones that have been successful, and the ones who haven't are no longer around to comment  :-\

Offline Black Red + Yellow

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2010, 06:25:05 PM »

Agree with Jaspers Mum above.  And I'm another pet home working cocker owner who thinks they shouldn't really be in pet homes.   ph34r 

All thanks to Nicola, Alfie's pretty good.  I let him do his own thing for an hour or so every morning and most days for another hour in the evenings.  He's in huge, safe woods, his recall is good and the only thing I have to worry about is him flushing a roe deer.  He's also good on the lead, but I know I will never go for a normal relaxed off-leash dog walk with him in a new place (what I call a labrador walk).  I cannot trust him and I used to beat myself up about this but life's too short.  Seems like I have to tell him to heel every 10 seconds, and sometimes he even has to think about that and decide whether he's got something more important going on.  Around the house he's perfect.  However, when we're out in fields and I do gundog-type stuff (within my limited knowledge) or set him tasks, his little face just lights up with joy.

Have to say, we rehomed a working springer from a working home when she was 5 or 6 and she adjusted to being a pet perfectly, but I think cockers are much more difficult than springers.

It's personal preference, but I just find the looks of a worker so much more attractive than show cockers but in all honesty I wouldn't take on another.  But then, Alfie is my only benchmark.  Maybe he's just loopier than most or maybe I'm the most inept dog owner in the world.  I love him the way he is anyway.

What I want to know is - what about failed workers?  They have to become pets don't they?

Good point - Plenty of them in rescue isn't there  :'(- unfortunately, not everyone will keep their dog because it isn't suited to their chosen activity and the dog loses out -  many people who purely work their dogs just do not have the same attachment emotionally to their dogs........personally, I prefer not to say that Willow my Labrador is a failed worker but that her skills lay elsewhere....my sofa is always lovely and warm ;)

Offline Sarah1985

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2010, 07:48:11 PM »

What I want to know is - what about failed workers?  They have to become pets don't they?


Clover breeder sold on his failed workers to pet homes. He said he has a huge waiting list as there is a surprising number of people looking for a fully trained dog. I wonder how they'd settle as they have experienced all that a working life has to offer and are then expected to settle in a home.

Clover was intended for working life however the breeder felt she was too small. This was decided at just a few days old so we collected her at 8 weeks she'd never had any working expereince to miss.


how do you know your pet working cocker is truly fulfilled until you've tried working them?


Good point. I would love to know how good my two could be if they'd been worked and see them at their best. I guess Id feel incredibly guilty that they've not been allowed to lead a life they would have loved. But then you can beat yourself up all day with the what if. And Im pretty sure they enjoy the life they have. Not many working dogs are allowed cuddles and to play with thier friends at the local park. Alot of dogs dont do anywhere near the number of activities I do with mine. I give them the best life Im capable of.  

 They are relatively good at the gun dog style training I do with them but I dont see an indiction that they enjoy it anymore or less than any other activity. But with my limited knowledge this maybe a reflection on how Im training it and maybe Im not pushing the right instinct buttons. Id love to give gu dog classes a go but I know the one local to us doesnt use methods I agree with. No matter how much they love it I couldnt bring myself to use the methods he prescribed.  >:(

Offline JaspersMum

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2010, 08:25:56 PM »

Agree with Jaspers Mum above.  And I'm another pet home working cocker owner who thinks they shouldn't really be in pet homes.   ph34r 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be a pet dog, just that the "pet" home should be able to offer enough stimulation and exercise.  In the case of my friend and his very young family and lots of commitments, I cannot see any dog going out for a every day, and when it does, it's most likely to be a 10 minute in the park and a longer walk at the weekend.  However, they like the idea of a spaniel so I'm trying to push them to a CKCS instead of a cocker of either type.  The problem is, he wants to get this dog for less than £300 and that is going to lead him towards the workers and the puppy farms  :'(

Regarding high maintenance show types, I've got a couple of those too  ;)

Jenny - owned by Jasper, Ellie, Heidi, Louie & Charlie

Offline Coco

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 09:10:36 PM »
I say Giz is a failed worker  ::)  :D As I say she was always intended to be a working dog, beating and picking up preferably, she didn't show any aptitude. Fortunatly given the way things worked out! I must admit that when it was relevant that it was a bit of a dissapointment but we always said, when talking to breeders etc that we wanted a worker but if they failed they would be a pet, by no means chucked out for another. Wherry started life as very much a 'working' style dog, kenneled over night, not on the sofa, definatly not in bed etc all training was geared toward gundog training, no squeaky toys or rug games etc. And it was certainly my fault that she made her way inside but when Ex realised that she could be a working dog and still a pet it was fine. He is very happy with the way it turned out now and would not go back. Maybe she would be a better worker if she had that more formal lifestyle, but she's good enough without it!

I think if people who take on workers and they don't meet the bar, if they can be responsible and have them rehomed, as is often the case, then there will be a lot of lucky new owners. Unfortunatly I do know of a few cases where they are 'disposed' of if they are not able or at the end of their useful life. There is such a vast range in w. cocker owners and breeders from old school shooting types to pet homes I don't think there is one type of owner and as such there can be such different views on what should be done with them.

When we got Wherry, Ex FIL was saying when he was a kid the way to teach a dog with bad recall was to put it in a sack and beat it then when it's let out make sure the owner is the first person it sees, love it and praise it and it'll never leave your side again  :o  :o
I guess that's what they did with failed workers then!!!!
There are no bad dogs, just bad people
Vicky, Wherry and Gizzymo

Offline Cockertime Blues

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2010, 11:33:21 PM »

Agree with Jaspers Mum above.  And I'm another pet home working cocker owner who thinks they shouldn't really be in pet homes.   ph34r 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be a pet dog

I know you weren't JM.  But I agreed with your post and also agreed with another poster re second sentence in the quote.  I confused the issue by running the two things together.

Offline JerryBerry

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2010, 07:06:11 AM »
Jerry is a working cocker (although his mum was gun shy and not worked) and is a pet. He is very easy going and seems to love his life. Although we dont work him we do lots of obedience training, retrieving etc etc....he has miles and miles of fields and woodland to investigate and is suitably mentally stimulated. Would he be happier if we worked him? who can say, he's never done it..... This thread has made me think and possibly make me feel a bit guilty that he hasnt had the oppotunity to "work properly", but he is very calm in the house, has never been distructive or difficult to handle...what Im trying to say is that he has never given me any reason to think that he is frustrated or bored. He was going to a working home but they decided he wasnt suitable at 8 weeks old. Im not sure of the basis of this decision but the thought that he could have been taken and ending up a failed worker in a rehoming centre makes me feel physically sick, he loves people and he would be so depressed without all his cuddles and attention.  The shortest walk he has is an hour long, my partner and I argue about who will take him out - not because nobody wants to but because we BOTH want to and someone has to stay with the children  :005: water proof walking gear hangs in our shed-cum-boot room ph34r along side an array of dummys.  He is exercised whatever the weather (to quote Billy Connolly - "theres no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes") Are we doing him a injustice??  This thread has been food for thought guys, thank you.
MICHELLE AND JERRY XXX



Offline Sarah.H

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2010, 09:06:33 AM »
I know Millie is only half worker but I think she is a good example of a high drive dog being in the wrong home, she just made her own entertainment and escaped whenever she could to satisfy her needs. I think if she had been in the right home from a pup she would have made a fantastic working dog as she's bright, sharp and fearless in any cover. But she is now so obsessed with chasing furries that it's been a real uphill slog just to be able to go for a walk! I can get really really good results training in an open area, in fact my friend who showed us how to start tracking the other day was stunned at how quick she picked it up.  I think there is also a fine line with Millie between the correct type/amount of exercise and over stimulation.

Millie

Offline Crazy Cocker Gang

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2010, 11:58:08 AM »
I think as has been said it really does depend on the dog.

Out of my dogs two work, two dont and one (Seth) better had  ph34r :005:

Flynns not a full worker and certainaly would never of worked, I dont know if thats his breeding or the fact he spent years in a puppy farm  :-\
He does enjoy retreiving his dummys and I do gundog style training with him which he enjoys but I dont do much other training because hes just not into it.

Flynn would much rather be curled up with me on the sofa than out working and hes too stupid to train up. But as I said he isnt a full working cocker and he was treated horrendously before i got him so he really isnt a good example of a pet working cocker.

Amber would of been my best working dog if i had got my hands on her when she was younger, shes so biddable and quick to learn. Shes a joy to train with and her work training isnt far behind Jack and Bries. Shes got the best quatering pattern and is a better retreiver than Brie. I cant work her though because shes so stressy. Amber was a mess when i got her who barked, cowered and paniced at everything and just couldnt handle the real world. She would never, ever cope with a shoot her head would explode.

It really upsets me that because Amber wasnt allowed to do what she was bred for it left her such a mess. Of course again there are mitigating factors and if Amber had been in a good pet home who were meeting her needs maybe she wouldnt of been so screwed up and I think thats the key to workers in pet homes.

Amber gets the same training to the same level as jack and Brie, the only difference between the three is Amber does not actually go out on shoots during the season. Amber would of absolutly loved working if I had her from a pup, she adores the training and because so much of it is about self control its really helped her learn to relax. I honestly think she is missing out by not going working, its depriving her of not only what she was bred to do but also of a activity she would enjoy so much. Ok she doesnt know shes missing out but I do and it upsets me that we do an activity she would love so much but I cant let her be part of it because someone screwed her up before i got her.

Im not against workers in pet homes per say, people who are utterly commited to meeting their dogs needs and know what they are taking on and will do gun dog training to let them have that outlet can have happy dogs. I am absolutly against pet workers being bred and the breed being diluted down so they are easier to handle in a pet home. Nothing will ever convince me it is for the good of the breed its for the good of the people who want them and it is completly selfish and damaging to the dogs.

I think thats the big crux really, the amount of workers being bred and the amount that end up in rescue is just heart breaking. The problem is once they are in rescue they can of picked up so many issues that its really difficult to turn them around. Workers who are not having their needs met are a nightmare, they are stressy, unhappy, cant switch off, guardy and not very easy to live with dogs. They can be very, very difficult to rehome as they cant be worked and can take a lot of time to manage. The first six months of owning Amber I think I cried most days.

There just wasnt the amount of workers in rescue that there are now before they were being produced for the pet market, workers also were not in puppy farms before they became popular pets as they are now.

I think its easy to forget that COL members only amount to a very small percentage of cocker owners, people who are on COL are so much more clued up whereas Jo public really arent. There is a massive problem with working cockers at the moment both in terms of those in rescue and in whats being bred. I hate seeing a fifth generation pet bred dog who wouldnt be capable of a days work in its life.

I think working cockers are being ruined from all angles at the moment and its the dogs that are paying the price.


Offline fifer

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2010, 12:49:36 PM »
I am absolutly against pet workers being bred and the breed being diluted down so they are easier to handle in a pet home. Nothing will ever convince me it is for the good of the breed its for the good of the people who want them and it is completly selfish and damaging to the dogs.

I think thats the big crux really, the amount of workers being bred and the amount that end up in rescue is just heart breaking. The problem is once they are in rescue they can of picked up so many issues that its really difficult to turn them around. Workers who are not having their needs met are a nightmare, they are stressy, unhappy, cant switch off, guardy and not very easy to live with dogs. They can be very, very difficult to rehome as they cant be worked and can take a lot of time to manage. The first six months of owning Amber I think I cried most days.

There just wasnt the amount of workers in rescue that there are now before they were being produced for the pet market, workers also were not in puppy farms before they became popular pets as they are now.

I think its easy to forget that COL members only amount to a very small percentage of cocker owners, people who are on COL are so much more clued up whereas Jo public really arent. There is a massive problem with working cockers at the moment both in terms of those in rescue and in whats being bred. I hate seeing a fifth generation pet bred dog who wouldnt be capable of a days work in its life.

I think working cockers are being ruined from all angles at the moment and its the dogs that are paying the price.

Couldn't agree more!  Well said.  ;)
Spaniels In Need

Offline Karma

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2010, 01:21:30 PM »

I think what Crazy Cocker Gang has said about COL owners is a big consideration to this debate....

Those of us with "pet" workers aren't your average pet home... while I don't do gundog training with Honey, I looked into it, and if she had truly "come alive" in the 1-1 gundog lesson we had, I'd have persued it more... but agility is what she really enjoys...
The gundog lesson we had did give me better tools to get her retrieving under an element of control, though... and she does love playing ball - but it's play, not work!

Your average pet home is more likely to be a family who will take a pup to puppy classes, teach it to sit, down and possibly a couple of other tricks... might achieve a reasonable recall, and will then expect the dog to fit in with their life.  And I doubt there are many Workers who would cope with that lifestyle...

As an aside, I suspect the majority of the show cocker owners on here also wouldn't count as your typical pet home - we are all people who have chosen to put in extra effort into our dogs by seeking out information from other owners...  ;)
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Crazy Cocker Gang

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2010, 01:26:36 PM »



Your average pet home is more likely to be a family who will take a pup to puppy classes, teach it to sit, down and possibly a couple of other tricks... might achieve a reasonable recall, and will then expect the dog to fit in with their life.  And I doubt there are many Workers who would cope with that lifestyle...



Actually its not even that good in a average pet home. they tend to know nothing about dogs and dont do any training or attend any classes then when the dog starts displaying unwanted behaviours because its bored they scream at the dog and blame them for their behaviour.

Not a cocker but a lady had a boxer puppy the same age as jack and walks in the same place we do. She thought i was cruel training jack and that dogs should just be allowed to be dogs  ::)

She never taught her dog to recall, me and nic watched her the other day screaming at her poor dog to come back and then getting angry at the dog when it wouldnt  >:(

Offline Nicola

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Re: Working cockers, do you think they adapt to 'pet' or 'work' life?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2010, 03:30:44 PM »
Those of us with "pet" workers aren't your average pet home... while I don't do gundog training with Honey, I looked into it, and if she had truly "come alive" in the 1-1 gundog lesson we had, I'd have persued it more... but agility is what she really enjoys...


I was talking more about going right through the training and watching the dog actually working when I said that it makes them 'come alive'; while they certainly enjoy the training I don't think I could have judged that effect on my lot from one lesson either :005:  

There is a point in the training - I've seen it with every dog I've trained or helped to train be they Springer or Cocker - where it seems to click with them that this is what they're meant to do. It's often once they start to get proper exposure to game and all the training really comes together for them.
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