When is a cocker not a cocker

[garygttdi]

I hope this does get me banned from the forum, but so many of the pictures I see on the site are clearly not cockers, well not what I have been brought up believing is a cocker.

Many must be field or working cockers, and certainly not what I call a cocker many looking more like small Springer’s. Do we need a sub section for both “Field Cockers” and “Working cockers” before the distinctive cocker gets lost in the general lets call it a cocker.

Got my fingers in my ears as I can already hear the screams of horror !!

[Carolynleah]

Where would poor Nerys fit in?  She is part show and part working - and completely gorgeous    To be honest I don't see a problem - she is definately a cocker!

[ladylola]

Better keep your fingers in your ears  

By a cocker you mean show type. Cockers come in all shapes and sizes.
Yes there is a difference between show and working but they are all cockers.

I think the working were probably the Proper   cockers  

I have six 5 show type and Monty   all very different in size and stature.

Field spaniels are different altogether and I think a lot of people think working cockers are field spaniels  

But working and show are all cockers  

[maddy74]

We have a working cocker and I consider her to be a proper cocker......................

[8 Hairy Feet]

Well Gary ,
Could I ask you to name the non-cockers you are
seeing?
I'm not having a go, just curious is all!
steffxxx
ps or you could name one that is "a cocker"

[bajoleth]

I sort of know where you are coming from because before I joined this forum I had no idea there were 2 strains, if I had seen a Working Cocker out and about which I must certainly must have, I would have thought it was some other type of Spaniel But now I know better and as said the Working Cocker probably looks at lot more like the original Cocker but because Show Cockers are bred to resemble the breed standard whereas Workers are not (they are bred to perform Gundog duties) there has become more of a difference in how they look. More so than in any other breed I can think of . I can now spot a Worker and Vive la Difference
I don't think the OP has meant any offence here I just think its general ignorance (not calling the OP ignorant ) of there being 2 strains which are both most def Cocker Spaniels

[SteveB]

The problem is the Kennel club has messed with a lot of breeds. There are a few breeds still left with 2 types Cockers being one and GSD's another where people have continued to breed them for working rather than what they look like in the ring. How many breeds out there that were originally meant to do a job can no longer do what they were bred for. All because somebody in the KC believes that they know better. If you like to show your dog that is your choice but I for one would rather see a dog doing what it was meant to do by carrying out a function it was meant to do.
So is the op saying that working Cockers are the right breed or the show cocker with its cosmetic alterations the right one.
This is one big can of worms. At the end of the day they are all Cockers and the people on this site love them dearly wheteher they are show or working.
Just found this on the KC site

Description


 The most popular of the Spaniel family, the Cocker is an active, happy, small dog, who quickly adapts himself to his surroundings. He is highly intelligent and affectionate, and is in his element foraging around fields and hedgerows. He also employs his retrieving instincts around the house, and can often be found with a toy or slipper in his mouth, his tail wagging furiously, waiting for praise.



Cockers were recognised as a separate breed from Field and Springer Spaniels soon after the formation of the Kennel Club in 1873. He originated as the ‘cocking spaniel’, and derived this name from flushing woodcock. As with a number of gundog breeds there is a difference between those used for work and those used for show: the show Cocker is a sturdier, heavier version of his work counterpart.



Easy to train – his main aim in life is to please his owner – he is a busy little dog who enjoys plenty of exercise, and thrives on human companionship

[Lily Freya]

Do we need a sub section for both “Field Cockers” and “Working cockers”

Got to agree with SteveB, and to say that they are all cockers, irrespective of their type.

This forum is called cockersonline, and doesn't have sub-sections for dividing the type.  Except of course, for threads talking about different colours and types.  We even hear from members with other breeds, which is lovely.

We love 'em all. 


 

[SteveB]

Thanks for that Lily
The part of the KC description I do not understand is the "easy to train " bit.
Do they mean easy to train but sometimes go off with the fairies and even pretend to be deaf or is that just mine

[Lily Freya]

Thanks for that Lily
The part of the KC description I do not understan is the "easy to train " bit.
Do they mean easy to train but sometimes go off with the fairies and even pretend to be deaf or os that just mine

    Yeah, that describes my three.  Recall, what call??
Love 'em though.

[sarahR]

I must admit when I was first looking for a dog I thought a spaniel was a brown and white medium size dog with floppy ears that went shooting (with an owner of course). I was a complete ignoramus. Even though I was bought up in the sticks when I was a child and although we had a Collie that was really the only dog  plus a Jack Russel I ever saw except on our holidays. My parents had no interest in dogs and although farmers didn't shoot or hunt so I led a very dog sheltered life and we didn't go out much.    Mind you I could name various breeds of cow!! even more  )
When Oh suggested a spaniel I did google it and of course came up with loads then he mentioned Cocker Spaniel as he had one when a child. Even now he admits he thinks it must have been a worker x show cocker as he says Ozzie our show cocker doesn't look identical to his 40yr old memory.
I can now say after 18months of being a Cocker owner I tend to notice other Cockers more before it would just be a passing glance. But I still get a small  young Springer and a big working Cocker muddled up.
I think I just have a personality ( tunnel vision) which only absorbs a lot of knowledge what I'm interested or involved in. Another example is cars I didn't realize how many Fiat 500 cars there are on the road until I bought one now they seem to be every where.

Cockers like people are all a little bit different but still a Cocker and I luv mine to me she is the bestest cocker in the whole wide world.

[Lily Freya]

Cockers like people are all a little bit different but still a Cocker and I luv mine to me she is the bestest cocker in the whole wide world.


Well said SarahR   

[Marina and Saartje]

In the Netherlands the showtype is the most common, working are like a needle in a haystack. S never seen one before I came here, I tought that they could not be cockers at all. Untill I saw these foto's (sorry mods lots of pictures  )

Here is a picture of a cocker spaniel in 1882:



1895:


1901:


1907:


1938:


Field spaniel from 1890:


Field 1899:


Field 1936:


American cocker spaniel 1935 (not as different form the english showline as they are now):


English springer1911:


english springer 1933:


Somewhere in time the English cocker developed in a showline and a workingline.

[sarahR]

Lovely photos Marina. Thank you for sharing them. The Cocker has changed over the years hasn't it!

[Helen]

Sorry OP but Field Spaniels are a completely different breed than English Cocker (working or show) Spaniels - it is an american term I believe which probably covers working type but in the UK they are completely different dogs (as are Sussex Spaniels)

We have the right forum divisions in the photo boards - English cocker spaniels -  working and show type  - perhaps it's up to you to do more research into the 2 strains of English Cocker Spaniels or purchase some books?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cocker-Spaniel-Owners-Guide-About/dp/1906305293/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312814482&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cocker-Spaniel-Breed-Derek-Shapland/dp/190630520X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312814643&sr=1-1

Springers and cockers were one and the same and they were originally split by size - the smaller ones were called cocker spaniels and flushed woodcock, the bigger one's  became 'Springers' as that's how they flushed game.