Farmers, pheasants and dogs

[Sheepscheeks]

Our closest walk (2 minutes away) is around fields where pheasants hide in the hedges. Freddie goes bonkers if he flushes some out - legs it across the field chasing them. However, I am avoiding the field at the moment because 2 separate dog owners (both cocker owners as it happens) have told me a local farmer has been getting angry and even threatened one lady that he would shoot her dog if she didn't keep it under control and not let it chase the pheasants. The other owner said that a farmer (can only assume it's the same one) fired a shot near her dog to get it out of the trees away from the pheasants - when she got to him he said "Is that your bloody dog in there? There's going to be a shoot on Thursday, I don't know if it will happen now!". I know a dog could be shot for worrying livestock but do pheasants fall into that category? I can't get Freddie's attention if he has pheasant smell in his nose - he is just completely deaf to me, hence I am avoiding the field. Feel frustrated, though, as it's generally where he meets his doggy friends for a play.

Thoughts please.

[Helen]

Yes - pheasants are classed as livestock and your dog can be shot. Unless there is a public footpath in the field then your dog shouldn't be in it at all.

It is some farmers main livelihood as there's not much money in arable farming or dairy farming at the moment and dogs chasing the pheasants can indeed ruin a shoot.

We went for a 7 mile walk yesterday and it took in loads of pheasant drives - there's no way we'd allow Jarvis to chase the pheasants at any stage and he was under close control for 3 hours.  Every few minutes my OH was muttering 'he'll get shot if he doesn't stay under control' - it really can be that cut and dried.

I'm sorry but unless you can control your dog around pheasants then please keep away 

[JeffandAnnie]

Totally agree. Having worked with local landowners and gamekeepers I have come to realise how important shooting is to their livelihood and how much time and money they put into buying/raising pheasants each year. I do feel it would be more beneficial to them if they politely explained to people the reasons it is vital that dogs don't chase game, as most poeple don't know and would probably be understanding plus better educated about the countryside, but most gamekeepers I've come across use the more "direct" approach 

[Helen]

...but most gamekeepers I've come across use the more "direct" approach 

They're not known for their subtlety that's for sure 

[Danni and Freya]

This thread doesn't apply to anywhere we walk but I was unaware of this, so am now enlightened 

[Joules]

I am very lucky as Coco is not remotely interested in any birds    Lots of shoots and game birds around here though and the landowners are not very tolerant of out of control dogs and have signs up all over saying dogs must be on leads etc.  Luckily we have lots of other places to walk where flushing birds is not a problem.  It is their livelihood though in the same way as a sheep farmer so I guess they are entitled to be protective.  Must be a nightmare to have a dog that loves to chase and flush birds though 

[Emilyoliver]

What about 'lone' pheasants wandering on footpaths around crops/ orchards?  Do these belong to gamekeepers as well?  There are some woods a few farms away where I know there are shoots, however we sometimes meet pheasants on the closer farms where crops are grown.  I don't allow my dogs to race about chasing everything, but these birds seem to be lone males and I don't always see them before the dogs do.

[Joules]

What about 'lone' pheasants wandering on footpaths around crops/ orchards?  Do these belong to gamekeepers as well?  There are some woods a few farms away where I know there are shoots, however we sometimes meet pheasants on the closer farms where crops are grown.  I don't allow my dogs to race about chasing everything, but these birds seem to be lone males and I don't always see them before the dogs do.

I don't think you can do much about these   It is really in the actual shoot areas and areas where the birds are being bred that you need to be vigilant 

[Coco]

The farmers probably make more money these days put of shooting than they do their live stock.
If your dog was chasing cattle or chickens or trampling crops it would be easier to see the problem but while the pheasants are 'wild' they have more than likely been put there at great expense by the farmer.
A farmer would have to be pretty silly to put his game cover right next to a public area where there are lots of dogs running lose so I would say on that score the farmer is in the wrong if he has done so but, while we all love our dogs and love to see them off lead having fun, it genuinly is a persons livelyhood at stake.
The farmer may have not been terribly respectful in his approach to the dog walkers but they should be respectful of the fact that it's likely a great struggle for him. If it's plausable I'd try to find a different area to walk in for the next few months or keep a long line.
The farmer is probably forced to allow right of way by or through his land so in appreciation of that I think it's just good nature to respect that you are given the opportunity to use the land.  

[Helen]

What about 'lone' pheasants wandering on footpaths around crops/ orchards?  Do these belong to gamekeepers as well?  There are some woods a few farms away where I know there are shoots, however we sometimes meet pheasants on the closer farms where crops are grown.  I don't allow my dogs to race about chasing everything, but these birds seem to be lone males and I don't always see them before the dogs do.

If they're on a public footpath and not in a crop or field then it's really no issue.

You shouldn't let your dogs in the crops or farmers fields unless there is a public walkway through them 

The thing is though that any dog chasing rabbits or pheasants is in my view not under control and is a danger for many reasons - they can hurt themselves on barbed wire or brambles or impale themselves on sticks or indeed they can get so immersed in the chase they get lost (happened in the woods here last week and the dog hasn't been found yet  )

Must be a nightmare to have a dog that loves to chase and flush birds though 

But that is exactly how every working cocker is wired  it is only training that stops a working dog from chasing.  You have to have a dog that a) will stop when it flushes and b) that you can recall off birds under any circumstance. 

The best thing to do with any dog of gundog descent (that to me includes ALL cockers) is not to let it chase birds or bunnies from day 1 - all working gun dogs are trained not to chase and to flush under control (that is -  flush the bird and STOP).  That and being able to recall your dog even under duress (ie when there are a flock of pheasants strutting in front of your dog making them quiver!). 

Sheepscheeks, you could always take Freddie to do some gundog training since he seems to like pheasants so much   

[Joules]

Must be a nightmare to have a dog that loves to chase and flush birds though 

But that is exactly how every working cocker is wired  it is only training that stops a working dog from chasing.  You have to have a dog that a) will stop when it flushes and b) that you can recall off birds under any circumstance. 

The best thing to do with any dog of gundog descent (that to me includes ALL cockers) is not to let it chase birds or bunnies from day 1 - all working gun dogs are trained not to chase and to flush under control (that is -  flush the bird and STOP).  That and being able to recall your dog even under duress (ie when there are a flock of pheasants strutting in front of your dog making them quiver!). 

I know that it is what they are wired to do but it would be a pain for me, living where I do, if Coco was like that.    I know plenty of people with all sorts of dogs (not just cockers) who have a very strong chase drive and it causes them a lot of problems.    Coco will chase rabbits or deer up to a point but she never really gets close to them and has never ever chased a pheasant - for which I am very grateful 

[hollyd443]

But that is exactly how every working cocker is wired  it is only training that stops a working dog from chasing. 

And it can be done!!  Before Rio I had a Lab X and Sophie Collie who got a substantial amount of there exercise from chasing magpies and crows in the field with no worries at all, so was quite niave when I had Rio and she started flushing and chasing birds, I didn't think too much of it  It was a slippery slope, to the point that she nearly got knocked down (she'd just go completely deaf and wouldn't stop running for anything or anyone!), she had phessie OCD! It took quite a bit of intensive training (long line, tennis balls by the bucket full and loads of praise) and by 18 months was completely rock steady around birds. She's been totally trustworthy ever since (she's 4 now), she stands and points then comes back for her ball 

[Helen]

Holly, you're a case in point    Well done, it's not easy to achieve once a habit has formed

[Helen]

Just telling OH about this thread (He is a farmers son and his brother runs a shoot)

His opinion is to beg you all NOT to risk your dog's life (he seriously said that!)  He has known too many gamekeepers who are passionate about their shoots and will shoot your dog first and then ask questions.  It wouldn't matter if you were in the right or the wrong in that situation as it won't bring your dog back 

Where we walked yesterday he wouldn't have done a few years back - the gamekeeper then was notorious 

[Sheepscheeks]

Ok thank you all for your valuable input. I will not, under any circumstances, be walking Freddie offlead around the fields in question (which have footpaths through/round them by the way). I will also pass on what you have told me to other dog owners. Even though there are obviously shoots taking place locally, there is clearly a huge amount of ignorance over rights and responsibilities.