Farmers, pheasants and dogs

[Sarah.H]

Holly, you're a case in point    Well done, it's not easy to achieve once a habit has formed

Don't I know that! Some days I really hate Millies previous owners   .

[Helen]

Ok thank you all for your valuable input. I will not, under any circumstances, be walking Freddie offlead around the fields in question (which have footpaths through/round them by the way). I will also pass on what you have told me to other dog owners. Even though there are obviously shoots taking place locally, there is clearly a huge amount of ignorance over rights and responsibilities.

You could also speak to the farmer and see where you are able to walk Freddie - the pheasant drive may only be in one area and he may be able to go off-lead elsewhere   

[DarceyTheDog]

I've been reading this with intrest. I never knew that a farmer could shoot your dog outright. Luckily we have to keep darcey on the lead at all times on a walk as she would run at the 1st sight/sound/smell. She's ok if there are NO distractions but as soon as she gets on something and the piggy noise comes out she's gone!

[SteveB]

Why don't you ask the farmer if you can do some dogging in with the dog. He would probably be pleased for the offer and if he is anything like the gamekeepers and farmers that Andrea is involved with will also help with the training. Win win win all round you get to see the beautiful countryside we live in, the dog gets to do something that it is bred to do and the farmer has the pheasants back where he wants them.

[c19unn]

Another valuable lesson learned on COL for me
I had no idea that Phesants were classed as Livestock and that your dog can get shot for disturbing them....
However i am very lucky in that i have so many areas around me that i can take Diesel off lead that is not near Livestock - Some just 2 mins from me and some about 10 mins top in the car so i always (especially after the last heated topic on livestock and shooting) maske sure that i just avoid any walk areas where i may lose Diesel in a field that contains livestopck - To be honest though - The path that we walk off lead sometimes runs adjacent to the farmers field but it has a normal fence and a 6 foot metal fence between the path and the cattle (also was only put up this year so its new) and diesel will sit at the fence and look at the sheep (they scare the life out of him and he runs away) The cows however just seem to intrigue him. So im glad he cant get near them - if i did find a gap one day that meant he could get in the field i would stop walking him offlead there immediately ..
I had no idea of the farmers and livestock and shooting until i read it on here so very grateful i found COL as it means i have info which could save my Dogs Life or at least be able to avoid situations where i could unintentially put him into danger 

[primmer]

Sheepscheeks - do you mind me asking which fields you mean as I know we live in the same area and want to ensure I keep murphy away from the area - thanks

Have to admit I had no idea of the dangers and will certainly keep more of an eye out in future !

[seaangler]

Just a quick one on the subject of livestock....(c19unn)

Livestock refers to one or more domesticated animals raised in an agricultural setting to produce commodities such as food, fiber and labor.I.E Cows pigs sheep goats ect The term "livestock"  does not include ((poultry or farmed fish)); This would include Pheasants (being birds)

[Helen]

You're right Seaangler - I stand corrected - however they are covered by the the Protection of Animals Act 1911 (1912 in Scotland...) so the gamekeepers/farmers are within their rights to protect their livelihood 

Unfortunately it makes no odds if a dog is dead - you can't bring it back 

[supaspaniel]

Just a quick one on the subject of livestock....(c19unn)

Livestock refers to one or more domesticated animals raised in an agricultural setting to produce commodities such as food, fiber and labor.I.E Cows pigs sheep goats ect The term "livestock"  does not include ((poultry or farmed fish)); This would include Pheasants (being birds)

I think the definition of livestock is a very broad one and difficult to interpret at times.

too many gamekeepers who are passionate about their shoots and will shoot your dog first and then ask questions.  It wouldn't matter if you were in the right or the wrong in that situation as it won't bring your dog back 

I think that is the important point to remember. Whoever was right or wrong, it wouldn't bring your dog back!
Its just taking responsibilty for your dog knowing that something unpleasant could happen. Would you let them off lead chase ducks near frozen water? Not quite the same thing I know, but just dont put the dogs at risk. 

[Helen]

You're right Seaangler - I stand corrected - however they are covered by the the Protection of Animals Act 1911 (1912 in Scotland...) so the gamekeepers/farmers are within their rights to protect their livelihood - whilst this should only extend to the poults being in captivity it's difficult to prove.

Unfortunately it makes no odds if a dog is dead - you can't bring it back  

[seaangler]

Helen I do agree with you

[Helen]

thank goodness for that SeaAngler    You did make me think though and then I found this on the BASC site:

"The definition of 'livestock' under The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included. However, for the purposes of civil proceedings under the Animals Act 1971 it includes pheasants, partridges and grouse in captivity"

The thing is once they're out of the pheasant pens then they're not really in captivity - I guess the argument is that they are still fed, and are in a contained area ie the shoot drive 

[Sheepscheeks]

Sheepscheeks - do you mind me asking which fields you mean as I know we live in the same area and want to ensure I keep murphy away from the area - thanks

Have to admit I had no idea of the dangers and will certainly keep more of an eye out in future !

Will pm you.

[hanandhen]

thank goodness for that SeaAngler    You did make me think though and then I found this on the BASC site:

"The definition of 'livestock' under The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included. However, for the purposes of civil proceedings under the Animals Act 1971 it includes pheasants, partridges and grouse in captivity"

The thing is once they're out of the pheasant pens then they're not really in captivity - I guess the argument is that they are still fed, and are in a contained area ie the shoot drive 

If I was a cynic, I'd say the argument would be that the gamekeeper has a gun and once your dog is dead, no amount of legal wrangling will bring it back as someone else said.

I don't allow Henry to hunt near to pens or out on general footpath walks, but if he comes across phessies on work's land or no common land then I see it as a good training opportuinty - he is definitely getting steadier to the flush this year (she said, crossing fingers for first shoot of the season on Saturday!)

[rubyduby]

I dont want to sound bitter and cynical, but I have good reason... but as you say when your dog is shot that is it..., rights and wrongs dont matter, farmers and gamekeepers often work with a foot on either side of the law, but they know what they do can rarely be proved, so it is not worth the risk... and regarding their livelihoods..maybe some struggle , but they would struggle a lot more without all the hand-outs they get from the public purse, maybe they should think about that when dictating where, when and how we enjoy the countryside.