Raw Feeding Again: and I'm not sorry!

[judebt]

Hi .

Reading this with interest! Roxi is 8 months old and im scared to give her a cooked chicken wing never mind a raw one! Are you saying that I can give her a completely raw chicken wing and leave her to it?? Roxi doesnt eat her food she wolfs it. What if she tries to eat it all in one go?? What about food poisoning??? It seems so odd to me to give a dog completely raw food but if people think its good for them I would like to give it a go.

More information please............
Thanks Judith and ROXi

[Abby]

Hi .

Reading this with interest! Roxi is 8 months old and im scared to give her a cooked chicken wing never mind a raw one! Are you saying that I can give her a completely raw chicken wing and leave her to it?? Roxi doesnt eat her food she wolfs it. What if she tries to eat it all in one go?? What about food poisoning??? It seems so odd to me to give a dog completely raw food but if people think its good for them I would like to give it a go.

More information please............
Thanks Judith and ROXi

Deinftely don't give cooked chicken wings - they mustn't have the cooked bones. Clive has had a few raw chicken wings and LOVES them - I bash them a bit with a rolling pin and he polishes them off very happily. So long as its fresh chicken and you bash it up, certainly to start with a bit, I'm sure Roxi will be fine - and very happy! Give it to her outside if you don't want chicken smeared all over the floor (eugh  ) 

[Claire]

Hi .

Reading this with interest! Roxi is 8 months old and im scared to give her a cooked chicken wing never mind a raw one! Are you saying that I can give her a completely raw chicken wing and leave her to it?? Roxi doesnt eat her food she wolfs it. What if she tries to eat it all in one go?? What about food poisoning??? It seems so odd to me to give a dog completely raw food but if people think its good for them I would like to give it a go.

More information please............
Thanks Judith and ROXi

Cooked bones are dangerous as they can splinter and the dog can choke.  Raw is fine.  It seems odd at first, but BARF (Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) is just that - it's biologically appropriate - ie. designed to mimic the kind of diet they'd have if they were wild and caught the food themselves.  That's why it's so good for them and they enjoy it so much - meaty bones is what dogs were designed to eat.

Re. food poisoning - not a worry.  Yes, humans would be ill eating raw chicken, but dogs have different digestive systems.  They do after all eat poo and lick their own bums...their digestive systems are made of much sterner stuff than ours!

[DennyK]

I took Paddy to the vets on Saturday and they were stunned by the change in him - usual vet was called in to see him.  I "admitted" that he's on raw food - they are really anti-raw, because of fears of campylo-bacter poisoning and fear of unbalanced nutrition.  One of the vets has seen cases of this from raw food - which I already knew before I took the plunge.  He was still whittling on, but I challenged him and said "look, I've tried everything conventional - food and drugs - which you've suggested, and none of it worked.  He's been on raw food, which I'm making sure is balanced and healthy, for two weeks and he's transformed.  Short gut, licks his bits, eats rubbish: how likely is the food poisoning?".  Silence.  The other vet chipped in and suggested that I use organic, free-range chicken when feeding raw chicken and otherwise, stick to the human-quality raw lamb, turkey and beef I've otherwise been feeding.  And avoid chicken offal.  Since I've still got two weeks' worth of frozen meals, including chicken, in the freezer, I'll think about this when I need to go shopping in two weeks' time.

On the bones front: Paddy was a guzzler and manic about food.  His petsitter, an experienced Cocker owner, always said that it went beyond greed and into desperation - she thought it was about being malnourished in some way because of the colitis.  When I gave him the raw chicken wings, he didnt' know what to do with them.  I was hovering too much because I was concerned in case he wolfed them down - he didn't and still doesn't.  Lies on the lawn chomping happy happy happily.  And the food mania has gone: he's just a greedy, hopeful dog now who will snark a treat if it's offered but is so much calmer when we're eating around him.

Go for it is all I can say!!  (And stock up on some tins of sardines for when you forget to thaw the food - duh!!!).

Denise

[Abby]

Great to hear Denise - looks like we'll be going the same way. I'm doing my reading at the moment, and OH seems okay with it. Your experience has really encouraged us and I'm so pleased for gorgeous little Paddy  .

[Penel]

To be fair to them - most vets don't have the experiences of raw feeding that we raw feeders have seen..... so you can't really blame them for being so anti.... although, an open mind would be nice 
Very pleased to hear that Paddy is doing sooooo well - congratulations !!! 

[sarahp]

On the bones front: Paddy was a guzzler and manic about food. 

And the food mania has gone: he's just a greedy, hopeful dog now who will snark a treat if it's offered 

Dill was like this - I often thought he was constantly hungry until I went to see Mark and we changed his diet.  As you say still greedy - but normally greedy - if there is such a thing 

is so much calmer when we're eating around him.

We have also noticed this too - on sunday night me and OH ate our first meal sat on the sofa since Dill arrived on 25th March    He was interested but he wasn't a manic pain in the @rse    When we have tried to eat on the sofa before we have had to give up and go back to the table    But it is nice to know we can slob in style again 

Glad your new regime seems to be working 

[Rhona W]

I think I'm going to BARF. 

I posted a while ago about the boys being funny at meal times - staring at each other and their dishes and seeming to guard their bowls from each other. A case of, 'I don't want it, but you're not having it either!' And Reuben seemed to be losing weight, after only just filling out. But if I gave them a chicken wing or carrot, they would happily eat whilst standing next to each other.
After about 4 weeks of this I've admitted defeat and bought some Natures Menu. (The coward's approach to BARF!) The change in meal times is amazing! They both dive in and wolf it down. Then they spend 10 minutes licking their bowls clean. And they don't guard from each other either! 
So now I really need to research how to feed BARF using natural food as Natures Menu is costing me a small fortune!  The packet said they needed 800 - 1000g a day, which is two blocks each!  Does anyone know if that is right? Or is it my misunderstanding? 
But their new diet might explain why they were happy to potter about outside yesterday when we were eating, instead of sitting begging at our feet!       

[Cob-Web]

So now I really need to research how to feed BARF using natural food as Natures Menu is costing me a small fortune!  The packet said they needed 800 - 1000g a day, which is two blocks each!  Does anyone know if that is right? Or is it my misunderstanding? 

Thats a lot of food 

I buy Prize Choice minced meat packs - and add my own veggies and bones - I intersperse these meals with chicken wings, raw rabbit portions (from the butchers £5 for three), raw fish and cheap cuts I get from the supermarket.

I work on approx meat quantities of 100-150g per 10kg body weight per day  - so a 400g pack of Prize Choice mince (59p) feeds Molo for two days. I puree and freeze fruit and veg in bulk, and add 4 or 5 ice-cubes over the two meals. I add all the supplements (omega oils, garlic etc) to the veg mix, so I don't have to remember to add it to each meal 

[Nicola]

So now I really need to research how to feed BARF using natural food as Natures Menu is costing me a small fortune!  The packet said they needed 800 - 1000g a day, which is two blocks each!  Does anyone know if that is right? Or is it my misunderstanding? 
But their new diet might explain why they were happy to potter about outside yesterday when we were eating, instead of sitting begging at our feet!       

I was going to say the same as Rachel, I think that's waaaay too much food for them    About 2% of their body weight is right as Alfie is 15.5kg and he's on about 400g of food per day.

Edited cos I got my figures slightly wrong 

[DennyK]

Abby

Take another look at Tommo's thread from a couple of weeks ago as Claire & Petra, I think, posted really useful lists of what was fed over the course of a week.  

The practical things I learned, apart from what to feed:

1.   Clear out a drawer in your freezer before you bring the food home.

2.  Buy a fresh roll/box of freezer bags for individual portions.  

3.  Work out what 3% of your dog's body weight is, as that is the guideline daily weight of food to feed (including treats), and have your scales to hand as you portion it all out - helps when you're nervous about "getting it right".

4.  When you're ready to start portioning all the meat/offal/veg out, start by tearing off and opening up all the freezer bags so you can just "dole out" the portions directly into the bags - or turn them inside out and pick the meat up using the interior of the bag itself.  Also tear off the little paper/metal ties too, so you're not washing hands constantly to tear one off and tie up the bag.

5.  Start by doing the veg first.  Obvious in some ways but I ended up scrubbing the chopping board half way through to cut up veg, to go in the blender, because there was blood and gunk on it.

6.  Remember to leave some of it out for the first day's meal.  I did it all on Friday afternoon, kept some chicken for Friday night's dinner, then froze everything else.  Idiot.  Had to thaw out Saturday's food a few hours later.

Denise

[Rhona W]

I was going to say the same as Rachel, I think that's waaaay too much food for them   

I would agree that it seems an enormous amount. It is certainly a huge dish full compared to the amount of dry food they used to have! 
On the back of the Natures Menu blocks' packet it says for a puppy weighing between 10 and 20 kg they need 800 - 1000g a day. The 'maintainance' amount reduces to 400g when they are fully grown. Casper and Reuben are nearly 7 months old so I have been feeding them the puppy amount. Would you agree with that?     
I know I had read before (from Penel I think) about feeding half a block per meal, so I was a bit surprised/shocked by having to feed a whole one. But you can see why I need to source BARF naturally!     

[DennyK]

They both dive in and wolf it down. Then they spend 10 minutes licking their bowls clean. And they don't guard from each other either! 

But their new diet might explain why they were happy to potter about outside yesterday when we were eating, instead of sitting begging at our feet!       

Blimey: given that they're getting three times the recommended quantities, they're probably so brossan they can't waddle over to " 'ave some" aggro!!   They must be in Cocker heaven...

Be prepared: 300g to 350g odd (about 2 to 3% for an 11kg/11.5kg dog) looks like tiny quantities - but they're eating nutrient dense foods, no fillers so won't be hungry.

Rhona - just noted your point that they're puppies - I'll have a look in the books I got to see what they say about that, because I just skipped over it as being irrelevant - Paddy's 10 months old this weekend.

Denise

[Abby]

Thanks Denise. I'm going to make up a shopping list in the next few days and maybe give it a whirl at the weekend.

[allym]

I've just given Henry his very first raw chicken wing!  He is currently lying outside on the grass trying to decide what to do with it!  Usually he's dying to come back inside and peers longingly through the french windows, but not now! Now as soon as I look like I'm coming outside, he picks up his wing straight away as if to say 'there's NO way you're having this back'!

I've mashed up the bones with a rolling pin.  Stupid question - will he eat the bones or just leave them?  Could he choke?