endorsements

[*jean*]

In working cockers in scotland its not common practice for pups to have endorsements on the pedigree, but with the rise in working cockers as pets, breeders up here are thinking about starting to put them on,  when selling to a pet home( with potential buyers knowledge of course) to prevent indiscriminate breeding. my question is, do both dogs and bitches have endorsements or just bitches as they are the ones the puppy farmer / back yard breeders exploit? 

[Pammy]

both can be endorsed

[bluegirl]

I had a litter this year and I put endorsements on all of mine.

[jarbaha]

hi 
i put endorsments on all of mine too.

[Cayley]

I'd assume a dog, if used regularly, can produce far more litters than a bitch, so they should both be endorsed  .

[sarah25]

i put endorsments on all of mine too.

And us!

[*jean*]

thanks for the advice.. its for friends really they are the ones with the trial winning dogs who have regular litters. basically I dont think they are keen to put endorsements on pedigrees of working dogs as its not common practice, but surely if the dog is going to a non working home its a good thing? what do all you owners of working  type spaniels think? did you have endorsements on your pups when you bought them? ( I understand its common practice in the show types)

[Rhona W]

what do all you owners of working  type spaniels think? did you have endorsements on your pups when you bought them? ( I understand its common practice in the show types)

I didn't have endorsements on mine. But as I have absolutely no intention of breeding them, it wouldn't have bothered me at all. 

[*jean*]

I know, I think anyone with the dogs best interests at heart doesnt get a pup and mind endorsements at all. Im just trying to persuade the working spaniel community up here to start putting endorsements on their pups so they know they wont become puppy making machines or end up in rescue.
If I can do that then maybe Ill be doing some good further down the line for the breed. It getting the working fraternity to do something new...they arent very good at changes.. up here anyway.

[Michele]

I endorse my litters too and I've never had a new owner complain.

Im just trying to persuade the working spaniel community up here to start putting endorsements on their pups so they know they wont become puppy making machines or end up in rescue.

Sadly endorsing the registration can't actually stop someone from breeding a litter, it just means that they wouldn't be able to register them with the Kennel Club. 

[happydog]

No endorsements with Fern, but then we have known the breeder for about 40 years (local farmer)and umpteen generations of Ferns (all proper working dogs). We were intending to work her -but OH lost his eyesight and that was that. We had Fern spayed and when I told him I think he was actually a bit disappointed. He knew that we would have taken advice from him about finding a suitable stud if we had decided to breed from her. He has bred from her sister resulting in some absolute smashers  .

When Fern's litter sister had her final litter this June (she had them three days before she turned 7 - talk about cutting it fine ), I asked whether they were only looking for working homes for her pups and he said that he was looking for good homes for them as that was what mattered although he would obviously prefer working. He needs to know that his dogs are going to be treated with kindness above all else.
 I don't know much about endorsements or how they work but I think I would only add them if I didn't know anything about the prospective owners to trust them to do right for their dogs. That would apply just as much to some working homes as to some non working homes IMO.

[*jean*]

its just that the working cocker is getting very popular and if pups are only being sold to people the breeders know and respect thats fine. but if the breed becomes too popular its bound to get exploited by folk that arent so fussy about where their pups end up.
 and you have a point, some working homes arent that great . thank goodness I dont breed off my girls and never want to, Id be a nervous wreck  imagining all sorts of horrors happening to my pups. .  

[Jane S]

I don't know much about endorsements or how they work but I think I would only add them if I didn't know anything about the prospective owners to trust them to do right for their dogs. That would apply just as much to some working homes as to some non working homes IMO.

In an ideal world, good breeders would never need to place endorsements on puppies but it's not an ideal world. No matter how lovely a prospective owner seems to be and how carefully you vet them, no breeder can ever guarantee 100% that all their new owners will turn out to be as genuine as they first thought or that the puppy will actually stay with the home he/she was first sold to. It's not about a lack of trust - it's about breeders realising there are no certainties in this world and wanting to do their best to protect their pups. We've been using endorsements for years now (we even place them on any pups we retain ourselves) and have never had one owner complain and whilst it won't guarantee that one of our pups will never be used for breeding without our permission, it does deter those who are seeking a puppy for the wrong reasons (and sadly there are a lot of those out there)

[Nicola]

No endorsements with Fern, but then we have known the breeder for about 40 years (local farmer)and umpteen generations of Ferns (all proper working dogs). We were intending to work her -but OH lost his eyesight and that was that. We had Fern spayed and when I told him I think he was actually a bit disappointed. He knew that we would have taken advice from him about finding a suitable stud if we had decided to breed from her. He has bred from her sister resulting in some absolute smashers  .

When Fern's litter sister had her final litter this June (she had them three days before she turned 7 - talk about cutting it fine ), I asked whether they were only looking for working homes for her pups and he said that he was looking for good homes for them as that was what mattered although he would obviously prefer working. He needs to know that his dogs are going to be treated with kindness above all else.
 I don't know much about endorsements or how they work but I think I would only add them if I didn't know anything about the prospective owners to trust them to do right for their dogs. That would apply just as much to some working homes as to some non working homes IMO.

Happydog you've pretty much summed up what I think and what Alfie's breeder does as well! Alfie isn't endorsed but I wouldn't care if he was as I don't intend to breed him. There is a possibility though that if his breeder had kept him as he originally intended to do then he would be a field trial dog and might have been bred from if he was an exceptionally good worker. I would love another pup from Alfie's breeder but he only breeds from exceptional dogs and as Alfie's mum is retired he won't be breeding again until he has such a dog (if he does).

Alfie's father is a superb dog, Kirsten Strachan on here (workingcockers) has some of Alfie's relatives through his father and some of his brothers from previous litters are also successful working dogs and studs so possibly if Alfie did work or trial successfully then there might be some demand for his progeny for working homes as he's a big strong boy with a fantastic temperament as well, laid back in the house but fearless when out (even if I do say so    ) but unless I really get myself into gear and learn all about trialling or let someone else compete with him then I think I'll just have to keep him as the one-off he is!  

[happydog]

I don't know much about endorsements or how they work but I think I would only add them if I didn't know anything about the prospective owners to trust them to do right for their dogs. That would apply just as much to some working homes as to some non working homes IMO.

In an ideal world, good breeders would never need to place endorsements on puppies but it's not an ideal world. No matter how lovely a prospective owner seems to be and how carefully you vet them, no breeder can ever guarantee 100% that all their new owners will turn out to be as genuine as they first thought or that the puppy will actually stay with the home he/she was first sold to. It's not about a lack of trust - it's about breeders realising there are no certainties in this world and wanting to do their best to protect their pups. We've been using endorsements for years now (we even place them on any pups we retain ourselves) and have never had one owner complain and whilst it won't guarantee that one of our pups will never be used for breeding without our permission, it does deter those who are seeking a puppy for the wrong reasons (and sadly there are a lot of those out there)

Good point Jane, I am a little naive still about these things, and whilst I agree that there are far too many unwanted dogs out there and would do everything in my power to stamp out animal cruelty, whether it be via puppy farming or elswehere, I do tend to think the best of people until they prove otherwise. It's just my nature. I'm too old to change now  .

Jane, just wondering- can an endorsment be revoked at a later date by the original breeder if they choose to do so?