endorsements

[Jane S]

Jane, just wondering- can an endorsment be revoked at a later date by the original breeder if they choose to do so?

Yes endorsements can be lifted by the original breeder at any time just by writing a letter to the Kennel Club. Normally the breeder would state in their contract under what circumstances they might be willing to lift the endorsements so there's no confusion and the buyer knows exactly where they stand.

[happydog]

Jane, just wondering- can an endorsment be revoked at a later date by the original breeder if they choose to do so?

Yes endorsements can be lifted by the original breeder at any time just by writing a letter to the Kennel Club. Normally the breeder would state in their contract under what circumstances they might be willing to lift the endorsements so there's no confusion and the buyer knows exactly where they stand.

That's good, because I was thinking , that if we had not had Fern spayed and worked/trialled her as we had originally intended, we could well have ended up with a FTCH (judging by her siblings and their offspring). If she had been endorsed as well -then that would have removed her from the gene pool resulting in a great loss to potential working cocker owners everywhere (positive thinker thats me ). If an endorsement can be lifted, with prior consent by the breeder, then to me endorsements do seem to make sense. A case of playing safe.. After all no responsible working cocker breeder would object to the breeding one of their dogs offspring who had qualified as a FTCH would they? Or am I still being naive?

[cazza]

When we got Fern off her breeder we didn't have any endorsements, but then we are friends too, but it was discussed before we were allowed to have her when we were going to get her spayed or did we want to let her have a litter?

These questions were asked before they said we could definately have her   - I want the FIRST season to be over with Then I can book her in to vets

[Helen]

I do worry about the emphasis on FTCH in working cocker pedigree's and the over-use of certain FTCH sires & dams in the working cocker world.

I would much rather i had a dog from good working stock who has a *few* ftch's in his pedigree rather than seeing the same ones appear in a pedigree on both dam and sire sides (sometimes over and over again!).  At the moment hereditary problems aren't as big an issue with working cockers as they are with show cockers, but who knows in the future?

[happydog]

I do worry about the emphasis on FTCH in working cocker pedigree's and the over-use of certain FTCH sires & dams in the working cocker world.

I would much rather i had a dog from good working stock who has a *few* ftch's in his pedigree rather than seeing the same ones appear in a pedigree on both dam and sire sides (sometimes over and over again!).  At the moment hereditary problems aren't as big an issue with working cockers as they are with show cockers, but who knows in the future?

Agree 100% Helen.

[Cob-Web]

This may be a daft question but do breeders who breed to produce good working dogs (as opposed to dogs for the pet market) register their dogs with the KC as a rule? 


 I wondered whether for working dogs, it is seen as offering any benefits?  I know that racing greyhounds are not always registered with the KC, even if they are registered with the NGRC; what about gundogs? 

I assume of they were dogs that compete in Field Trials, then they would have to be KC Registered, but what about the true working lines; that arguably could be the "best" examples of the breed??

I do worry about the emphasis on FTCH in working cocker pedigree's and the over-use of certain FTCH sires & dams in the working cocker world.

I would much rather i had a dog from good working stock who has a *few* ftch's in his pedigree rather than seeing the same ones appear in a pedigree on both dam and sire sides (sometimes over and over again!).  At the moment hereditary problems aren't as big an issue with working cockers as they are with show cockers, but who knows in the future?

Line breeding, when done properly, can successfully reduce the incidences of heritiary problems; but it needs careful management, otherwise it can have the opposite effect and produce more *hidden* problems that only become apparent after a couple of generations 

[*jean*]

rachel the keepers etc up here who do not trial do register with the kc their dogs who are pedigreed. but as accidents happen sometimes you get a pepper.. the result of two dogs left together after a shoot one who was supposed to be out of season.!! all peppers litter worked ( one for the army and one for the police as sniffer dogs)and obviously shes not got a kc being a sprocker.
I know a pointer cross lab he worked well and a clumber cross cocker who works very well. I think if they come off kc parents then the pups are registered. one of my freinds ( a keeper ) he has a kc reg springer but he deliberately mated her with a sprocker as the sprocker is fantastic. the pups were booked before the mating took pace. these pups arent registered obviously.

[Helen]

This may be a daft question but do breeders who breed to produce good working dogs (as opposed to dogs for the pet market) register their dogs with the KC as a rule? 


 I wondered whether for working dogs, it is seen as offering any benefits?  I know that racing greyhounds are not always registered with the KC, even if they are registered with the NGRC; what about gundogs? 

I assume of they were dogs that compete in Field Trials, then they would have to be KC Registered, but what about the true working lines; that arguably could be the "best" examples of the breed??

I do worry about the emphasis on FTCH in working cocker pedigree's and the over-use of certain FTCH sires & dams in the working cocker world.

I would much rather i had a dog from good working stock who has a *few* ftch's in his pedigree rather than seeing the same ones appear in a pedigree on both dam and sire sides (sometimes over and over again!).  At the moment hereditary problems aren't as big an issue with working cockers as they are with show cockers, but who knows in the future?

Line breeding, when done properly, can successfully reduce the incidences of heritiary problems; but it needs careful management, otherwise it can have the opposite effect and produce more *hidden* problems that only become apparent after a couple of generations 

i'm not so sure that the management is careful - a lot of the breeding at the moment is to produce 'popular' colours from 'popular' lines.

yes, working working cocker breeders are very keen to have their dogs kc registered.  there is an awful lot of pride re the working dogs and along with being a strong reliable working dog, they like the lineage.  They are proud creatures these gundog breeders and all of the working cocker breeders i know are very careful of the working prowess, temperament and biddability of the dogs they're breeding first, and the pedigree second.

Jarv's breeders are not bothered too much by the FTCH in the background, but proven ability and soundness of the lines is very important

[*jean*]

[/yes, working working cocker breeders are very keen to have their dogs kc registered.  there is an awful lot of pride re the working dogs and along with being a strong reliable working dog, they like the lineage.  They are proud creatures these gundog breeders and all of the working cocker breeders i know are very careful of the working prowess, temperament and biddability of the dogs they're breeding first, and the pedigree second.
quote]
 hear hear! well put helen.

[lyn]

tbh i haven't registered either paddy or ellie in my name.both are kc registered . since i have no intention of breeding i never even bothered to look at the papers to see if there are endorsements.in fact i don't even know where their papers are
i do like looking into the pedigrees,but have no intentions of adding to them

[Nicola]

This may be a daft question but do breeders who breed to produce good working dogs (as opposed to dogs for the pet market) register their dogs with the KC as a rule? 


 I wondered whether for working dogs, it is seen as offering any benefits?  I know that racing greyhounds are not always registered with the KC, even if they are registered with the NGRC; what about gundogs? 

I assume of they were dogs that compete in Field Trials, then they would have to be KC Registered, but what about the true working lines; that arguably could be the "best" examples of the breed??

I do worry about the emphasis on FTCH in working cocker pedigree's and the over-use of certain FTCH sires & dams in the working cocker world.

I would much rather i had a dog from good working stock who has a *few* ftch's in his pedigree rather than seeing the same ones appear in a pedigree on both dam and sire sides (sometimes over and over again!).  At the moment hereditary problems aren't as big an issue with working cockers as they are with show cockers, but who knows in the future?

Line breeding, when done properly, can successfully reduce the incidences of heritiary problems; but it needs careful management, otherwise it can have the opposite effect and produce more *hidden* problems that only become apparent after a couple of generations 

i'm not so sure that the management is careful - a lot of the breeding at the moment is to produce 'popular' colours from 'popular' lines.

yes, working working cocker breeders are very keen to have their dogs kc registered.  there is an awful lot of pride re the working dogs and along with being a strong reliable working dog, they like the lineage.  They are proud creatures these gundog breeders and all of the working cocker breeders i know are very careful of the working prowess, temperament and biddability of the dogs they're breeding first, and the pedigree second.

Jarv's breeders are not bothered too much by the FTCH in the background, but proven ability and soundness of the lines is very important

Totally agree and Alfie's breeder is the same. He's fiercely proud of his dogs' working abilities and sound temperaments rather than how many famous FTCH's there are in their lines (although there are a few).

[cazza]

I've just looked out Fern's papers and there are a few FT CH and also one FT W  Sorry to be thick here but any ideas on the FT W?

[chrisfund]

Do they have endorsement on the export pedigree?
if so, Which part should I check out of the pedigree?

[lyn]

FTW= field trial winner.
i reckon ellie would beat all the winners hands down.i think she should have been named road runner or something like that.she is very very fast.yet so tiny.

[cazza]

FTW= field trial winner.
i reckon ellie would beat all the winners hands down.i think she should have been named road runner or something like that.she is very very fast.yet so tiny.

   Thanks  now I feel really silly for asking as it was so simple