Working Pup Pedigree

[Millomite]

I have been doing a bit of researching on my new pups pedigree and have managed to get it back to G,G,G,G,G,G,G,G,G,G-Grand Parents.

I have attached the first 5 generations of her pedigree and was wondering if anyone could help with providing there colour etc. I know the colour of her sire is black with white bib and her dam is a tri colour

[Helen]

can't help you any further back .....but jarv has strong family connections to your pup by the looks of that pedigree

amazing jade of livermere had time to be a ftch with the amount of times he appears on working cocker pedigrees ;

[Mich]

Lots of connections here too.

[Mazame]

Housty Solo, blue roan, KCSB3868BT

Wintonwildfowl Dotterel, red, KCSB5527BY

Rhu of Migdale, liver & white, KCSB296BL

Gwibernant Snake, black, KCSB301BP

Wernffrwd Melyngoch, liver, KCSB4624BV

[Jenny]

Really  not sure how these things work but there seem to be a lot of similar names on Barney's pedigree so I have popped it down for you to look at.  I noticed Gwibernant Snake was on mine and yours.  Sorry not much help 

[chelle]

Hello here are a few I know

FTCH Mallowdale Rackateer- chocolate
FTCH Wernffrwd Siarl - Black
FTCH Maesydderwen Kestrel - Liver
FTCH Wernffrwd Silk - black
FTCH Maesydderwen Jackdaw - black
FTCH Anahar Allspice - black
FTCH Jasper of parkbreck - lemon & white
FTCH Zelda of Cadboll - black & white
FTCH Jade of Livermere - lemon & white
FTCH Wernffrwd Pawn - black & white

Michelle

[Cob-Web]

I have wondered for a while and this seems a good place to ask -  do breeders of working cockers consider coat colour as well as working ability, health and temperament when choosing a sire/dame combination??? 
I know that show cocker breeders do - but wondered if colour is as important in working lines 

[lyn]

not really sure rachel,but looking at paddy's working lines and ellies lines it looks like colour was not a consideration.i know some breeders are trying harder for lemon and chocolates but that seems to be the breeders who are breeding workers for pets.
before i get shot i don't mean to offend breeders or owners with these colours and i don't say all breeders of chocs and lemons are looking purely into colour.just some who are out for the money and not whats best for pups.
i hope i put that the way i want it to sound

ps millomite,your pup is closely related to my ellie too.

[Helen]

not really sure rachel,but looking at paddy's working lines and ellies lines it looks like colour was not a consideration.i know some breeders are trying harder for lemon and chocolates but that seems to be the breeders who are breeding workers for pets.
before i get shot i don't mean to offend breeders or owners with these colours and i don't say all breeders of chocs and lemons are looking purely into colour.just some who are out for the money and not whats best for pups.
i hope i put that the way i want it to sound

ps millomite,your pup is closely related to my ellie too.

colour is definitely not in mind with jarv and ellies breeder - in fact she is really 'surprised' that the liver pups are popular - has always been considered the boring option in their shooting circles.

as for working cocker 'ideals' light eyes have always been frowned upon in working cocker spaniel world - and in Mike Smith's working springers and cockers book he feels lemon & white or black bitches were the flavour of the month when he wrote it in the 90's.

however he also goes on to say (and quotes noted field trial personalities) that colour or sex will not make any difference to the dogs ability to be trained and hunt, and temperament is the main criteria (quoting boldness & inquisitiveness as main attributes for a pup).  Others look for boldness/inquisitiveness and general puppy health (ie straight legs, healthy, fit, jaw alignment, no naval ruptures, well boned, nice broad head and a fast tail action ). If after all these criteria there is a choice in the litter by colour or marking, it's totally personal.

[happydog]

FTCH Bournepark Bobbin(Lemon/White) was one of Fern's Grandsires

GGGrandparents include:
FTCH Zelda of Cadboll (Black/White)
FTCH Jasper of Parkbreck(Lemon/White)
FTCH Jade of Livermere(Lemon/White)
FTCHWernffrwd Pawn(Black/White)

Zoe of Weaverdale(Liver/white) (Sire & Dam Wernffrwd Neidr Goch/Trewnian Tessa)
FTCH Rhu of Migdale (Liver/white)(Sire & Dam Southfield Sam/Ginger of Gwibernant)
FTCH Gwibernant Snake(Black)(Sire & Dam Jasper of Gwibernant/Imp of Gwibernant)

[JaspersMum]

I think we have a few in common with Louie - "Workingcockers" very kindly found me some info on both pedigree and colour which can be found on this thread if you want to pick out the overlaps

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=21718.0

just scroll down past the question and pictures

Hope that helps a little

[flozac]

miss alexandrovna appears to be a golden colour with white on a picture that i have of her can't post it here without the owners permission tho.

sealpin rapscallion aka Buster is my Floss' dad too.

[kate.s]

Don't know much about the colours but Benji's G.G Grandparent is Mallowdale Rackatear. Been looking into Benji's family tree and think he's mostly working with a bit of show, which explains a little why he looks like he does

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e162/kate1971/SA400003.jpg


He's got some Shoshan and Lochranza in his G.G Grandparents and G.G.G.Grandparents. The one I can't find any info on is Hazmair (Gold Sovereign and Gwendolines Dream)

[Tasha]

colour is definitely something taken into consideration by working breeders, its not just about FT wins but also lines, health (although many don't test which I disapprove of but that is slowly changing) and colour.  My breeder wanted a blue roan bitch and both the bitch and the stud dog were black so he had to research very carefully to get the roans he wanted.

Ayla's litter had blue roans, black, black and white and a light colour which I assume will turn out to be lemon or liver and white.  If I put her to a liver dog I could widen the colour range and it would double up on colours already in her line.

Its wrong to assume that working breeders don't have much thought about their breeding practises if they didn't the show dog wouldn't exist when you consider that it has developed out of the working lines and older dogs in history looked very much the same as our working dogs do today.

Your pup has lots of lines that are similar to mine.

If you want to know for definite and don't have access to the stud books the kennel club has a registration archive and library service that you can use where they can tell you exactly what is registered on a specific dogs pedigree and what else was in the litter.  Its worth going up and spending a day in their library, has some facinating stuff.  The swedish site is also very good and has lots of details on the dogs.

[workingcockers]

Colour is not the first consideration usually for most working breeders including myself , a good dog is not a bad colour...However, my personal pref is for lighter dogs - white and x, this is purely practical for this area but doesnt always means I have kept the best dog LOL. However, no matter the colour of dog I have kept, this does not influence the dog I use at stud. There are other far more important issues to be addressed like temp and health (yes - I hip score, eye test and I believe am the first working kennel in at least the Uk to optigen test), also in my opinion the gene pool is shrinking - try and find a pup with no Rackatear!!  However, I cannot stand light eyes and would never either keep an animal with light eyes (even in a lemon or orange roan) and a stud dog would have to be outstanding to consider using one with lightish (medium is Ok once yellow never) eyes. I personally think breeding for colour alone is dangerous in the long term.
Just my thoughts