viewing a pup without Mum. . .

[vanessa]

Hello
I'm a new member on the board,thought it would be the best place to get advice! Been planning on getting a cocker since November last year and the time is approaching to make my choice. Thing id I am seeimg a womderful breeder who has puppies yet I have found out about a man who has a 14 week old (megan) who he needs to rehome as his older dogs will not accept her. He says he made a huge mistake getting her as he is ill and feels really guilty about buying her in the first place.She is well behaved he says and he has sent me photos, but says he will sell her without her papers??!! He seems genuine and is upset about her going, but as I'm new to all this I would really appreciate some help from all you cocker owners. And what do you think it means about the papers. Will be speaking to him this afternoon so I would be so happy if someone could reply back. I want to do the right thing.Thanks 

[Annette]

It sounds very suspicious to me.

If he bought the puppy from a reputable breeder, they would want the pup to be returned to them.

I think it sounds like a back yard breeder with one slightly older puppy to sell. Or he may be selling on for a back yard breeder.

If his story is true, then why will he not pass on the papers? Are there any papers? Are they KC papers or some other breed "registration"?

I would want to ask many, many questions, but beware, these unscrupulous breeders are very very believable. And you must be certain that the sight of a cute little puppy which is available straight away won't sway you into making a bad decision.

Hopefully you will get some better advice soon.

[emilyjw]

You have to be very careful as one this site there have been recent cases where someone paid for what they thought was a pedigree cocker, but since have found out the puppy is half basset hound.

I would guess he probably doesn't have any papers, it only costs around £20ish I think to transfer the ownership of the dog, so there is no real reason why he wouldn't pass on the papers.

[vanessa]

Thank you for your reply Annette, I must say I have found it all a little odd. He says he has her KC papers, but I don't see how he would benefit from keeping them. . or would he? I am visiting the breeder in Cambridgeshire on Monday and as this man lives in the next village I think I will still stop by. It will be difficult I know if I have to walk away, as I have got her pictures and she is utterly adorable. Thing is he has got quite a bad illness and is in a wheelchair so maybe he just genuinely can't cope? Does anyone think its foolish to still see her at his home?  

[Cayley]

Has the owner of the 14 week old not contacted the breeder, if they are reputable they would take the dog back straight away. If not the owner would be better off going through a reputable rescue so the dog can be assessed and placed in a suitable home with a neuturing contract  .  

[vanessa]

Thanks for advice about papers Emily, thats something I didn't know.

[emilyjw]

The only advantage I could see of keeping the papers, is to pass off another dog with those papers... Not sure if this is something that people do with regard to puppy farms.

If you go and visit in all likelyhood you will come home with the puppy, without seeing the mother it will be difficult to get an idea of how healthy she was, whether there might be problems etc.

As hard as it is, I would recommend you don't go...

[vanessa]

Thanks Cayley, it does all seem dodgy doesn't it??? I'm very grateful for this help. . . .  

[emilyjw]

If you get her insist on getting the papers

[vanessa]

He's saying that it will cost more for her with her papers, but I've already told him my plan was to buy a dog with papers anyway! Regardless of cost!

[CarolineL]

Hi Vanessa

Welcome!!  

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=12047.0

Please read this link - this is an example of the heartbreak that you can go through if you don't get a puppy from a reputable breeder, if you dont see the pup with its mum........

On the basis that this is not a reputable breeder and that this is not a genuine situation it will be so difficult for you to walk away because in a sense you will feel like you are rescuing the pup from a bad situation, and this is what the puppy farmers play on. They play on your emotions and the fact that  you will fall in love with this gorgeous puppy. If this isnt a genuine situation and you do take the pup you are just paving the way for the next litter and the next puppies...

You've done all the right things you should have done by coming here and asking all the right questions.

Good luck

xxxxx

[vanessa]

Thank you for that link Caroline, I had read that early this morning at brekkie and immeadiately I thought of this little Megan and had a lump in my throat. It all seems suspicious and the other members are right as I would probably want to rescue her! My sons have even put her picture on my computer as the screensaver! They are dog mad and I have been promising them a dog since they were tiny, as they are now 15 (twins) and have shown their dedication by looking after and walking friends dogs etc, I have decided its time for our own. What a minefield!! We as a family have spent months adapting our home and reading all sorts of books, training manuals, even been to watch at obediance classes so you can see we are taking it seriously. I just hate the fact that pups are sold in this way. Makes me so cross. Thank you for the welcome So much good advice . Thank you Caroline x

[jools]

Vanessa, I was going to send you the link to my post about Millie, but I see that Caroline has done so already.

PLEASE don't go to see Megan. There is absolutely no way you will be walking away from there without her, and this could be the biggest mistake of your life.

Everything I was going to say has already been said.

A reputable breeder would not have sold this man a puppy in the first place. Also, IF is story is true and he is heartbroken, why is he charging more for Megan's papers? Surely he would just be glad to find her a good home.

Vanessa, I was told a load of absolute rubbish when I bought Millie. I live with her lose every day and still cannot bring myself to look at pictures of my beautiful girl.

Please walk away.

[emilyjw]

As you said in your first post that you are in contact with a wonderful breeder, I would stick with that. Reputable breeders offer life-time support, are more likely to have done the necessary health checks.

By seeing the mum you will be able to get an idea of her temprement nature etc..

It is difficult, we got our first dog (a lab cross) from a not very nice house and we felt like we were rescuing her. She was around 3 months old and had obviously missed out on some socialisation. She is a lovely dog and I wouldn't change her for the world, but it was a lot of work getting her used to people and she is still quite timid with tall men. Where as our little cocker came from a KC registered breeder where we got to see the mum, health checks were done etc. We got her at 8 weeks and started her socialisation earlier and she is much better with strangers etc.

This is why I know from my own experience that once you look it is very hard to walk away.

[vanessa]

Hello Jools
I won't go.  . .promise. i feel bad not going to see her now, but I know I may be putting myself through a lot of trouble. Poor Megan she is so beautiful, really. An absolute darling, she looks sad y'know? Have removed her screensaver picture, will show my boys all the lovely messages when they are in from school and explain we wont be seeing her. They are fixated on her I think as they have seen her pic. Am keeping them off school when we go to the breeder anyway, our puppy will be one we all decide on. This breeder I'm going to see is reputable Ive been told, two cocker owners I know have got their dogs from her, so you are right Emily, I will go there. Jools, sorry about your story, its just awful, and I cant imagine how that must have been for your family. Im taking your advice on board, Thank you x