Question about my friends litter

[Jane S]

its a pity really that no one is looking at this sort of thing as a study in genetics.  The healthgene people in america might be willing to look at something like this if it was suggested they are doing an awful lot of research into dogs and topics of study can sometimes be suggested.

Abnormalities like this are not necessarily genetic though - they can be caused by something the bitch came into contact with during pregnancy (infection, toxins etc). The fact there were problems with other puppies in this litter suggests to me that maybe environmental factors were more important than genetics here although nobody will ever know that for sure. Much as I support research into genetic conditions, we have to accept that resources for research are always going to be limited and are perhaps better targetted at conditions which are more widely seen than this one

[supaspaniel]

I'm not going into a tail docking debate here, but I suppose these kind of things were naturally picked up at a very early stage when the pups were taken in to be docked?

that is a point I guess, but the way I think is I'm guessing  from my horse breeding days....you watched for the foal to pass its stuff...ok so its only one foal at a time to check, but it should be a similar process in my mind. I constantly check the dogs poop now...maybe I'm just obsessed!!

[Jane S]

but the way I think is I'm guessing  from my horse breeding days....you watched for the foal to pass its stuff...ok so its only one foal at a time to check, but it should be a similar process in my mind. I constantly check the dogs poop now...maybe I'm just obsessed!!

Yes it's the same process with puppies I'm always on poop patrol when we have a litter and with newborns, I like to see they've all passed a poop within a few hours of being born (some will "go" almost as soon as they are born)

[*Lucy*]

I'm not too sure how he's overlooked Bracken not pooing but i'm sure he feels awful about it now.

I guess it is just that he is an unexperienced breeder 

He not going to breed again - I think this has shocked him very much!

[supaspaniel]

I'm not too sure how he's overlooked Bracken not pooing but i'm sure he feels awful about it now.

I guess it is just that he is an unexperienced breeder 

He not going to breed again - I think this has shocked him very much!

and I'm really sorry that its happened it is sad...but if one person 'thinkin'about breedin with their dog reads this and thinks better of it or realises one more thing they have to do for the pups then I'm glad its been mentioned

[Joules]

I'm not too sure how he's overlooked Bracken not pooing but i'm sure he feels awful about it now.

I guess it is just that he is an unexperienced breeder 

He not going to breed again - I think this has shocked him very much!

and I'm really sorry that its happened it is sad...but if one person 'thinkin'about breedin with their dog reads this and thinks better of it or realises one more thing they have to do for the pups then I'm glad its been mentioned

I agree Lisa      I think it is what is called "learning the hard way"    I definitely think breeding is left to the experts 

[*Lucy*]

Like you I agree that if this thread has put at least one person off breeding then thats great but my friend had bred dogs before - this is his 2nd litter with Teal but had bred many times before with other dogs.

I know that what has happened to this litter is awful BUT it could have happened to any breeder.

Yes, another breeder may have recognised the fact that Bracken was abnormal but she would have had to be put to sleep anyway.

I agree Lisa      I think it is what is called "learning the hard way"    I definitely think breeding is left to the experts 

I am not trying to get into an argument here but all experts have to start somewhere - my friend did everything a breeder should have it was just unlucky that this litter was not a sucessful one 

[suzysu]

Sleep well little ones  x

[Helen]

I'm not too sure how he's overlooked Bracken not pooing but i'm sure he feels awful about it now.

I guess it is just that he is an unexperienced breeder 

He not going to breed again - I think this has shocked him very much!

and I'm really sorry that its happened it is sad...but if one person 'thinkin'about breedin with their dog reads this and thinks better of it or realises one more thing they have to do for the pups then I'm glad its been mentioned

I agree Lisa      I think it is what is called "learning the hard way"    I definitely think breeding is left to the experts 

agree 

[Cob-Web]

I know that what has happened to this litter is awful BUT it could have happened to any breeder.

Yes, another breeder may have recognised the fact that Bracken was abnormal but she would have had to be put to sleep anyway.

.....and Bracken would not have suffered the discomfort and pain she was no doubt in for 8 weeks; I don't think it is fair to suggest that this could have happened to any breeder; responsible breeders would have ensured their pups were healthy long before they got to 8 weeks old 

Few things I read like this touch me emotionally; but the thought of that poor pup suffering the way she must have done - and the distress that Teal must have been in too, knowing her puppy was in need, has left me with a knot in my stomach 

[*Lucy*]

I don't think it is fair to suggest that this could have happened to any breeder; responsible breeders would have ensured their pups were healthy long before they got to 8 weeks old 

I meant that the abnormalities in the pups could have happened to any breeder.........I feel exactly the same as you on this subject.

[*jean*]

we had a lamb with this last year by 3 days old its stomach was hugely distended. it had an op and  survived then sadly a fox killed it.
 however it was obvious by its swollen abdomen that it was distended. checked...no anus, was in vets for less than an hour, small op  home and feeding by the afternoon. if mr fox hadnt got it I think it would still be on the go,  if not sold on for meat.
 Its a shame it wasnt so easily detected in a pup. Surely it was unduly distended? poor puppy.

[Tasha]

healthgene have links to lots of different universities and laboratories and tend to look a little more widely than genetics they also look at viral diseases that might cause Fading Puppy Syndrome for example. They tend to ask for the bodies of effected puppies so that they can study them.

[Gilly]

but the way I think is I'm guessing  from my horse breeding days....you watched for the foal to pass its stuff...ok so its only one foal at a time to check, but it should be a similar process in my mind. I constantly check the dogs poop now...maybe I'm just obsessed!!

Yes it's the same process with puppies I'm always on poop patrol when we have a litter and with newborns, I like to see they've all passed a poop within a few hours of being born (some will "go" almost as soon as they are born)

That's how I knew Buttons wasn't well with her last litter as she wasn't stimulating them to go to the toilet so I had to do it for her  a marked change from her last litter where I had to stop her from eating a litter 6 puppies poo at 8 weeks  I must admit I'm a poo fanatic too and it's something I always check when they've been wormed.

[Tasha]

Do you think non doggy owners think we are wierd examining their deposits