Can anyone explain this to me?

[1sttimecockermum]

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/4740/cockerspanielpracarriers.pdf

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/4741/cockerspanielpraaffecteds.pdf

Came across these while surfing around, Dennis's dad is the dad of one of the dogs listed as a "carrier of PRA"  so either he or the dam has passed it on - Right?

Does this mean that Dennis is a carrier/ or could be? not that it matters as he has been "done" anyway  -just curious

Makes sense to me that none of the affected or carriers should be bred from?? 

[_jac_]

Ok, I haven't looked at the links, but as I understand it if he has one parent who is a carrier, he could be. If both parents are carriers then he could be affected.

It is ok to breed from carriers as long as they are bred with a clear, none of the pups will ever be affected. Any of those offspring could be carriers and again should only be bred to clears. Affecteds can also be bred to clears and will only produce carriers.

The DNA tests give us the tools to breed with knowledge and without producing affected dogs and losing some great dogs from the gene pool.

To remove all carriers and affecteds from the gene pool can only do harm when you think how the gene pool would bottle neck.

What is needed is for more people to test, many bitch owners take the easy option of just using a clear dog, but could still be producing carriers. We don't have the problem in Flatcoats in this country, but it is in other countries and as yet we have no dna test. 

[Jane S]

Yes if a dog is listed as a carrier, then he got the faulty gene from one of his parents and yes your dog could also possibly be a carrier too (depending on whether his sire is a carrier) but this is only of importance if you intended breeding from him. It doesn't look like Dennis' Dad has actually been tested himself so you've got no way of knowing really whether the gene came from him or the dam

We've had discussions before on whether carriers should be bred from - some take a very hard line and say carriers should be eliminated from the gene pool but this is not the advice of canine geneticists who advocate careful and responsible use of carriers to maintain the gene pool. It goes without saying that dogs tested as carriers should only be mated to tested clear partners and the resulting puppies should have their registrations endorsed so that they aren't bred from until their own status is verified by testing.

[Jane S]

Just as a matter of interest should a breeder breed from an affected dog? I know it would have to be mated with a clear and the pups would be carriers, but would there be any time that a breeder would feel they were justified to breed from an affected dog, especially a bitch?

We had this dilemma ourselves as our Show Champion blue bitch tested as affected back when the test was quite new & she already had had one litter (thankfully to a dog tested as clear). We thought long and hard what to do but in the end we did not feel comfortable breeding again from a known affected dog so she was spayed. We kept a daughter from her who was of course automatically a carrier and she has since had two litters to tested clear dogs with all registrations endorsed (even on the pups we kept) so we are able to monitor the status of future generations before breeding.

[1sttimecockermum]

Thanks that makes it a bit clearer- as I said Dennis has been neutered so it doesn't matter unless his mum was a carrier which I don't know, I thought his dad was tested as on the kennel club health tests it said "eye disease unaffected"  I found out soooo much more after getting him I wish I had found this site sooner 

[Ninasmum]

If you know the full KC registered name or number of Dennis's sire & dam it is possible to look on the KC site to check for health tests.   Obviously if the breeders haven't done the testing they won't be on the list.

I do agree that if a dog/bitch is affected with PRA they should not be bred from, even if they are mated with a clear mate.

[Jane S]

.. I thought his dad was tested as on the kennel club health tests it said "eye disease unaffected"  I found out soooo much more after getting him I wish I had found this site sooner 

It looks like Dennis' sire has been clinically eye tested just once in 2006 (that's the "eye disease unaffected" on the health database) but hasn't been DNA tested or clinically eye tested since 2006

[Jeanette]

.. I thought his dad was tested as on the kennel club health tests it said "eye disease unaffected"  I found out soooo much more after getting him I wish I had found this site sooner 

It looks like Dennis' sire has been clinically eye tested just once in 2006 (that's the "eye disease unaffected" on the health database) but hasn't been DNA tested or clinically eye tested since 2006

Jane, when this situation happens does it mean hasn't been tested OR the results haven't been posted on     Can breeders decide not to post the results on the KC website?

[elaine.e]

This link, http://www.thescottishdachshundclub.co.uk/PRABreedingStrategies.pdf has an explanation plus some excellent diagrams that illustrate all the possibilities of matings between clear, carrier and affected dogs. It helped me get my head round what the possibilities are.

[Nicola]

.. I thought his dad was tested as on the kennel club health tests it said "eye disease unaffected"  I found out soooo much more after getting him I wish I had found this site sooner 

It looks like Dennis' sire has been clinically eye tested just once in 2006 (that's the "eye disease unaffected" on the health database) but hasn't been DNA tested or clinically eye tested since 2006

Jane, when this situation happens does it mean hasn't been tested OR the results haven't been posted on     Can breeders decide not to post the results on the KC website?

No, Optigen results and BVA test results automatically get sent to the KC, I didn't have to send any of Rodaidh's results in and they all appear on there, eyes and hips.

[Jane S]

Jane, when this situation happens does it mean hasn't been tested OR the results haven't been posted on     Can breeders decide not to post the results on the KC website?

Clinical eye tests are automatically submitted to the KC by the BVA but sometimes the odd one gets lost in the system & won't show up on the database. Optigen DNA tests are automatically sent to the KC by Optigen but only since August 2008 - tests before that date are voluntarily submitted. Antagene FN test results are all voluntarily submitted.

[_jac_]

.. I thought his dad was tested as on the kennel club health tests it said "eye disease unaffected"  I found out soooo much more after getting him I wish I had found this site sooner 

It looks like Dennis' sire has been clinically eye tested just once in 2006 (that's the "eye disease unaffected" on the health database) but hasn't been DNA tested or clinically eye tested since 2006

Jane, when this situation happens does it mean hasn't been tested OR the results haven't been posted on     Can breeders decide not to post the results on the KC website?

I help at an eye testing clinic and some of our tests still have not appeared on the kc website from our session last October.  ( mine included ) grrr ! But I have her clear certificate should anyone want to see it and if I wish I could fax it to the kc.

The results are sent from the BVA to the KC, so you do not get a choice as to wether you publish as far as yearly cetificates, not sure about optigen.  But they are definitely not up to date !

[_jac_]

Sorry, cross posted there, I am slow at typing 

[Jeanette]

Jane, when this situation happens does it mean hasn't been tested OR the results haven't been posted on     Can breeders decide not to post the results on the KC website?

Clinical eye tests are automatically submitted to the KC by the BVA but sometimes the odd one gets lost in the system & won't show up on the database. Optigen DNA tests are automatically sent to the KC by Optigen but only since August 2008 - tests before that date are voluntarily submitted. Antagene FN test results are all voluntarily submitted.

Is this just recently though as I've looked at Indie's Sire as the eye test shows as 2004 - does that mean that was the last eye test done?

[Jane S]

Is this just recently though as I've looked at Indie's Sire as the eye test shows as 2004 - does that mean that was the last eye test done?

No it's not new - BVA/KC eye results have always been sent to the KC for publication in the quarterly BRS and now on the online database. Results do go astray occasionally & have to be chased up by the owner/breeder but you wouldn't expect this to happen for several years in a row