Advice required please

[cockahoot]

I have four pups who are 48 hrs old.  They were fairly big pups all weighing in around 11oz, however they have all lost around 2oz each.  They are feeding all time but don't appear to be getting enough milk and I haven't seen a single poo today from any of them.  I'm reluctant to top them up because the bitch does appear to have loads of milk but at the same time I don't want them to start fading.  Any advice would be appreciated.

[spanielcrazy]

 Are you able to express milk from her? What she looks like and whether she is producing don't always jibe. Are the puppies able to nurse strongly? Are they fussing and crying a lot or do they seem content? Is everyone getting a fair turn?

You might discuss with your vet giving her a shot of oxytocin to get the milk to come down properly. I wouldn't let this go on much longer without feeding them.

[wrenside]

I have four pups who are 48 hrs old.  They were fairly big pups all weighing in around 11oz, however they have all lost around 2oz each.  They are feeding all time but don't appear to be getting enough milk and I haven't seen a single poo today from any of them.  I'm reluctant to top them up because the bitch does appear to have loads of milk but at the same time I don't want them to start fading.  Any advice would be appreciated.

You won't see any poo from the pups at this young age because the bitch will be licking them clean (the licking stimulates the pups to defecate).
Check the pups for cleft palate as this can be a reason for pups not suckling properly.

I would top the pups up if you are concerned about the bitch's supply of milk, and then ask the vet to come round and check on the bitch.

Mary

[cockahoot]

Mum and pups were checked over by the vet yesterday and she had a shot of oxytocin then.  Vet was happy with all of them, just a wee bit concerned that mum might get mastitis.  They are all on ceporex as a precautionary measure just because mum had a bit of an infection early on in her pregnancy, pups were also born quite pink.

It's been a while since I had a litter of pups but from the start these have been far more noisy and active than my others.  They do feed strongly and I've been swapping them around the teats to make sure they all get a fare share, but I'm really stressing about them now so I shall have to go back to the vets with them tomorrow.

You won't see any poo from the pups at this young age because the bitch will be licking them clean (the licking stimulates the pups to defecate).
Check the pups for cleft palate as this can be a reason for pups not suckling properly.

Pups were all pooing yesterday and yes mum was cleaning them up, but nothing today.  None of them have cleft palates.

[cockahoot]

Are you able to express milk from her

No, when I try to express milk especially from the back teats which are huge and now quite hard, all I get is a pin prick drop of milk.

[loppylugs]

Its normal for pups to lose a little weight after being born,they gradually put weight back on.Some can be 'lazy feeders'and need to be encouraged to go onto the teat every few hours,when hungry.I always get in a tub of whelpi when bitch has been mated,just in case,i put the bitch on it and if needed top the pups up with it.
                                    My bitch i bred from last year hardly had any milk so i had to help her by topping pups up,it was lovely to see them paddling with the front feet when sucking on the babys bottle,i had a great sense of acheivement,i did tell my bitch i drew the line at 'cleaning them up'she had to do that herself

[spanielcrazy]

Are you able to express milk from her

No, when I try to express milk especially from the back teats which are huge and now quite hard, all I get is a pin prick drop of milk.

Not good   Try warm compresses with epsom salts and gently massaging till you get hold of the vet. Want to be sure she is not developing mastitis

Let us know how it goes

[bluegirl]

Are the pups latched on properly? Can you see a small amount of milk around their mouths as they are latched onto the nipple?

I had this with Phoebe and although her milk bar was huge it just wasn't releasing the milk for some reason. I saw froth rather than milk around their mouths and did everything to help to get the milk flowing. They lost quite a bit of their birth weight and I felt I had no choice but to start supplementing them and by another couple of days I took over feeding all together as no milk ever came.

[Ninasmum]

Sorry to hear this & really hope the puppies start feeding today.  It is a huge worry.

If this is any help http://www.dorwest.com/Catalogue/Homoeopathic-Remedies/Urtica-Urens-30C-THIRTY---100-pillules
this product helps with the milk flow.

[cockahoot]

Vet has now seen mum and pups, says mum does have milk but she's only really letting it down in her front teats and not her back, but that there is less milk there than when she saw her on Monday.  She's given her another oxytocin injection and advised me to keep up the warm massaging of her back teats.

She's given me some pro-biotics for the pups just in case the antibiotics they are on have disrupted their ability to digest food properly, but she didn't seem unduly worried about them (I think I do enough of that) but agreed a little bit of supplement milk wouldn't do thtem any harm.

Thank you to everyone for the suppport, I have done all this before but it's nice to know there is support out there.

[spanielcrazy]

How is everyone doing today? Hope all is going better 

[cockahoot]

I've been back to the vets today and I'm at my witts end, tired and really emotional.  Only the smallest of the litter appears to be putting on any weight and I'm struggling to maintain the weight of the others.  I've been back to the vets today and they say I'm doing all I can. 

All the pups are still suckling well from mum and I've managed to soften down her back teats enough to get the milk flowing and the smallest dog bless him latched onto one yesterday and was really going at it - it was a joy to watch.

I just can't work out why they're not putting on weight when they appear to be feeding well.  I still don't think mum has much milk but the vet disagrees, I can only go on how much my other btches had.

[Ninasmum]

Ime i had one puppy that started to lose the strength to feed, although he was a few days older than yours are when this happened.  This may start to be the problem with yours if they are not feeding properly.    I think if they haven't put on any weight, then consider supplementing them with a good quality whelpi milk. 

With my weak puppy (who happily survived & lives a very happy life now  ) he was given this to strengthen him because he had lost the strength to suckle. 
http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Liquid-Life-Aid-960ml/productinfo/LIQ960/
It really does work. 

Thinking of you & will be keeping fingers crossed all the puppies pull through this 
I know it must be so stressfull & tiring atm for you.

[spanielcrazy]

I just can't work out why they're not putting on weight when they appear to be feeding well.  I still don't think mum has much milk but the vet disagrees, I can only go on how much my other btches had.

Forget what the vet says and go with your instincts! Most general practice vets have little experience with newborn puppies and mothers.

I would supplemental feed them 2-3 times per day and let them nurse the rest of the time. Continue with the warm compresses, massage and checking the milk flow on your bitch. If they are not gaining weight steadily now, it is time for you to step in

http://www.chelsea-collies.com/newborn.html

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/bottlefeeding2.htm

[cockahoot]

I started topping them up on Tuesday night enough to give them a bit extra but not so much as to stop them suckling from mum. Two of them take it quite happily but the other two it's a bit of a battle.