Confusing cocker colours (orange)

[Ada]

What is the difference between Orange Roan, Lemon Roan, and Orange & White Ticked and Lemon & White Ticked? 
I have read the descriptions on The Cocker Spaniel Club, and I've been searching for images online, but I still can't get my head around it.

Reason I'm asking is I've got a pup that was born almost completely white, with the three tiniest spots in the world on the back. It's now 8 days old and some more patches have come through. However, at this age, the markings are not nearly as clear as the same aged orange roans I've seen on photos. Time for registering comes soon, but at the moment I'm not 100% sure it should go down as Orange Roan.  (Pups mum and dad are Blue Roan and Blue Roan & Tan.)

What is the differences between the colours mentioned above at young age?

[elaine.e]

I have orange roan William, who has very little roaning and from a distance could easily be mistaken for an orange and white. When he was a tiny pup he was mainly white with just his orange ears and a couple of orange patches and no visible roan.

I was told that because his pads were dark instead of pure pink that he would be orange roan.

Hope that helps, but I'm sure an experienced breeder will be along to explain all soon

[Cayley]

The term lemon is used to describe the colour in working cockers.

Technically lemon roan is supposed to be orange roan but with light pigment and eyes  .

[Jane S]

It's now 8 days old and some more patches have come through. However, at this age, the markings are not nearly as clear as the same aged orange roans I've seen on photos. Time for registering comes soon, but at the moment I'm not 100% sure it should go down as Orange Roan.  (Pups mum and dad are Blue Roan and Blue Roan & Tan.)

8 days is too soon really to know exactly what colour this pup is - oranges take a long time for the colour to come through as they're all born white and wishy-washy looking - their pigmented patches start off very pale but the colour will deepen as they get older. As far as whether the pup is a roan or perhaps "and white", then again it's too early to say. If pup has a very pink nose and foot pads, it's likely (but not certain), he will be "and white" but if his nose is fully pigmented and his feet are either fully pigmented or with very little pink on them, then he's probably a roan. Don't be in too much of a rush to register - the KC don't take that long to process registrations these days so you can safely leave it for at least a couple more weeks.

[Ada]

Yes, I guess I have to try and be patient and just wait and see! 
Pups nose and paws definately look like they're turning black. At the moment they are a very dark chocolatey-colour, with a kind of purple "glow" aswell. There's not been much change in the actual orange patches in the fur.

Wether it's going to be lemon roan or orange roan is still abit confusing, as The Cocker Spaniel Club list both of them with both brown and black pigments. Is lemon roan supposed to be just a lighter variety of orange roan?

[Jane S]

Yes, I guess I have to try and be patient and just wait and see! 
Pups nose and paws definately look like they're turning black. At the moment they are a very dark chocolatey-colour, with a kind of purple "glow" aswell. There's not been much change in the actual orange patches in the fur.

Definitely a roan then

Wether it's going to be lemon roan or orange roan is still abit confusing, as The Cocker Spaniel Club list both of them with both brown and black pigments. Is lemon roan supposed to be just a lighter variety of orange roan?

Is this a show-type puppy? If so, he's probably orange as lemons are not common in show lines.

[Ada]

Hi, sorry I've not been able to reply earlier!

She is show type, and her nose has definately gone black. Front paw pads are black also, back ones are getting there, they're still abit pink in the middle. All nails/claws are still fully white. Puppy is four weeks old now. Her orange patches aren't very ginger yet, more like a blonde colour, but they have become abit clearer around the edges. She's had some more patches aswell, but as "weak" in colour, around the toes of her feet etc. Her belly (where there's not much hair) she seems to have something that looks like freckles, so now I'm even more convinced she's at least a roan. Still uncertain about the lemon/orange though. But if it's a case of the pigments then I guess she's orange. Haven't yet sent out any KC registration papers, as we are keeping this puppy, and she's singleton. I feel like I have more time to wait.

Thanks for replies anyways!

[elaine.e]

She sounds lovely, so I think we should see some photos of her please

[Jane S]

But if it's a case of the pigments then I guess she's orange. Haven't yet sent out any KC registration papers, as we are keeping this puppy, and she's singleton. I feel like I have more time to wait.

Yes sounds like she's orange roan to me too Are her ears a darker colour to her body patches? I find the ears on oranges often get their colouring earlier and are a better indication than general body colour. We are in a similar position to you having a 4 week old orange singleton pup at the moment - we know he's an "and white" though as his nose and foot pads still have lots of pink

[Ada]

Yes, the ears are definately darker, especially on the underside. She doesn't have many patches as of yet, other than on both ears and one on her shoulder that you can see quite well. But it does look like there are some more of them coming through, it is really hard to say at the moment if they'll become proper patches though.

Not sure this is the right place for a picture, but I got one here of her (very sleepy) at 3 weeks old that shows her current colour and markings pretty well. This week her fur is abit longer though. Unfortunately you cant see her ears very well, but they are indeed darker then the rest. You can also see some of that stealthy patch-development on her back.
 
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xTzay6mOa70/TklyRwPDe6I/AAAAAAAAAJ4/4iQj3A7QlFA/s1600/Augusti15+002.jpg

[cangrejo]

Aw bless her, she's lovely 

[angie68]

Ahhh she's lovely  , what have you called her.
Angie x

[JaspersMum]

Variation on the same theme, I have met our friends new worker pup this evening.  She is listed as gold but has White paws and White on her head - why are they not listed as "& White?

They upset the breeder calling her orange originally, yet her "gold" is similar shade to my "orange" roan.... But we don't have gold roans!

[Jane S]

Variation on the same theme, I have met our friends new worker pup this evening.  She is listed as gold but has White paws and White on her head - why are they not listed as "& White?

Some breeders used to register a pup marked like this as "gold/lemon with white markings" as stictly speaking pup is not an "and white" but a mismarked solid. I don't suppose they can do this now the KC restrict the colour variations/patterns that can be registered.

[Mudmagnets]

Whatever she turns out to be - she looks just adorable