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Cocker Specific Discussion => Grooming => Topic started by: FionaM on September 03, 2002, 02:53:12 PM

Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: FionaM on September 03, 2002, 02:53:12 PM
Wasn’t sure where to put this question…

We decided to have Poppy spayed after her first season but now she’s come into season I’m starting to have second thoughts. I read a discussion on another board where someone described having seen a neutered cocker spaniel that looked like a lamb and also said he looked about 10 years old compared to his brother who hadn’t been neutered (I think).

We don’t have any plans to show her, so the way she looks is really not that important, but I’m not sure I want her to turn into a little black lamb  :-. She has already been clipped (twice) so I think her coat will change anyway? If we change our minds about spaying her and I throw my clippers away will I be able to handstrip her and keep her coat looking nice, or has the damage already been done?

We are definitely not breeding from her and I thought spaying her was doing the best thing. But now I am all confused  ??? (and having a slight panic about owning a lamb-like cocker!). She’s black so her coat is already thick but it’s soft and shiny. Can anyone give me some advice about just how much her coat might change?

Thanks

Fiona                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Jane S on September 03, 2002, 03:11:27 PM
Hi Fiona

This subject has come up pretty often on this forum too :) Neutering generally does cause the coat to get thicker & woollier & the changes are more noticeable on those Cockers with thick coats to begin with,which would include most solid blacks. However even with particolours you can see the difference post neutering, though it can take quite a few months for the changes to occur. Most neutered Cockers have to be clipped because it's no longer possible (or fair on the dog) to continue with handstripping. However, there is clipping & there is clipping - as I've said before, some groomers make a horrendous job of clipping Cockers (the shorn lamb look) & others do a decent job, presenting a nice tidy Cocker that still looks like a Cocker.
I think in the post you referred to on the other board, both Cockers had been neutered but only one looked terrible - possibly the other one had a much finer coat to begin with & also goes to a better groomer than the other one :)

The decision of whether to spay or not to spay is entirely up to you, but coat changes and/or weight gain can be side effects which you have to take into account when making your decision.

As to whether you can now handstrip your girl after clipping her, it will depend on how thick her coat is really. I have stripped out dogs that have formerly been clipped but it's much, much harder with solid blacks & will take lots of time & patience - so not impossible, but may be difficult!

Jane                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: stueymac on September 03, 2002, 03:52:23 PM
Our Sweep is spayed and her coat is a nightmare! It matts really easily, even if we were to brush her every day, I could bet that there'd be a few tatts waiting the next morning! I dont know if she is typical or whether she just has a particular type of coat which tatts easily! Libby is no bother on the other hand as she's hasn't been spayed. Sweep also looks a little 'plumper' than Libby after her spaying but we just keep a close eye on her diet.                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: *Jay* on September 03, 2002, 06:45:01 PM
Can anyone who's cockers coat did NOT change after neutering please let themselves be known ;D I'm still umming and aahing ???                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Michele on September 03, 2002, 11:13:08 PM
Can't help you there Gill, before Meg was spayed she used to go around in her underwear, now she wears dress, coat, hat, scarf & gloves the whole time  :o Or rather she would do if I didn't keep her clipped ;)                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: FionaM on September 07, 2002, 03:38:13 PM
I've stopped panicking now and we are still going to go ahead and get Poppy spayed.

I was getting mixed up with what a lamb and a sheep looked like (yes I know that's a bit dim, but I'm a city girl and don't see lambs very often :-[) I had visions of Poppy sprouting a big afro and looking like a sheep that needs sheared!                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Jane S on September 07, 2002, 08:06:51 PM
I had visions of Poppy sprouting a big afro and looking like a sheep that needs sheared!

Oh I do quite a few Cockers that look like that - bloomin' hard work they are too :-) Usually it's the owners who leave it toooo long before getting their dogs trimmed who have Cockers like that - they shouldn't get like that really!                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Pammy on September 22, 2002, 09:44:01 AM
Fiona

It was me that posted about the two dogs where one looked much much older than he was. The dogs were litter brothers. Both had been neutered but the effect on their coats was so different and that was the point I was making. Not ALL neutered Cockers will look like a sheep - but many do. My friends bitch was speyed and her weight has changed, but she was skinny anyway - so is better for that, but her coat looks fine - mainly because she has had no clippers near her. We use a coat king on her and she looks just fine.

Good luck with getting Poppy speyed.

hth

Pam n the boys                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: *Jay* on September 22, 2002, 12:51:58 PM
Oh Pam, wish you hadn't posted that ;D ;D ;D I've been having an ongoing dilemma over whether to get Vegas neutered and now that there is one cocker(may be the only one in the world ;D) whose coat hasn't changed has got me to thinking again ??? I have a coat king for the older cocker(who has been clipped and also neutered) - do you think if I use that on Vegas I could get away with having him castrated? He is an orange roan, his coat doesn't seem that thick but his legs are a bit fluffy.                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Pammy on September 22, 2002, 03:08:49 PM
Gill - sadly there are no guarantees at all which way Vegas' coat would go after he'd been neutered. IMHO - the reasons for neutering should go beyond the effect on the coat. As long as you know you can keep him out of a bitches way and that he has no issues with testosterone flying around his body, then I wouldn't get him done. If on the other hand there is a risk he might sire unwanted pups or he has some behavioural problems and castration is the last resort - then you should probably consider getting him done.

There are many people who believe that responsible dog ownership includes routine neutering. I'm not one of them. Like I say, if you are in a high risk area and Vegas is a good escapologist ;D or he has other health issues then go ahead - but don't be pursuaded because someone tells you it's what you must do because you don't intend to breed. You need to look at the whole picture in deciding what's right for you and Vegas -- but it is a minefield and the effect on the coat is an added complication you could do without.


As for being able to use a coat king on him - well time will tell. We have no problems with my friends bitch - but if her coat had gone more woolly - the it might be different.

Sorry I can't give you a yes/no answer - but there isn' one :-
hth a little anyway

Pam n theboys                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: FionaM on September 22, 2002, 11:09:01 PM
Thanks Pam  :)

I might try to get a coat king for Poppy and see how it goes. Hopefully she'll be getting speyed in about 6 weeks so I'll just have to wait and see how her coat turms out.

Fiona                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: funky on September 27, 2002, 02:29:22 PM
hi,

I've been ready all the posts on speying and change of coat.
I was wondering if anyone new whether the same thing can h
happen to a boy cocker if he gets castrated ouch! :o
My friend is thinking of getting Oscar done when he is older, he is a blue roan                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Pammy on September 27, 2002, 03:37:52 PM
Funky - it's the same for dogs and bitches.

hth

Pam n the boys                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: FionaM on October 01, 2002, 07:20:09 PM
Gill

I was in the groomers today and a woman was there with 2 orange roan cockers, 1 boy (8 years) and 1 girl (3 years). They had both just been clipped. Apparently the girl was spayed and the woman said she hadn't noticed any change in her coat from spaying and both of the dogs did look the same. (I saw them in the park a few days ago and both dogs had really nice coats, they didn't look clipped to me and this was before they had been at the groomers).

Anyway, both the woman and the groomer swore by oil of evening primrose capsules to prevent coats from going woolly after spaying/neutering and clipping. The woman said her dogs get one capsule each every day.

Poppy is getting a capsule in with her dinner tonight and I'll keep my fingers crossed that it'll help her coat.  She's booked in to be spayed on 1st November  :-

Don't know if this will help you in your decision about Vegas, but thought I'd tell you anyway  :)

Fiona                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: *Jay* on October 01, 2002, 08:01:47 PM
Hi Fiona, guess what I'll be buying from the pet shop on Saturday ;D Vegas has been in and out of our operations book so many times but his name will be going back in tomorrow. His date was also November 1st so it looks like we will be sharing the traumas of buster collars etc ;D and he and Poppy can commiserate with one another telepathically ;) and maybe you and I can worry ourselves sick together ;D Bugsy I get to inject his anaesthetic....sweet sweet revenge ;D                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Jane S on October 01, 2002, 11:15:48 PM
Evening primrose oil capsules are good for coats (I think I mentioned them before on another thread) but whilst they will help prevent the coat "drying" out quite so much, they will not prevent the hair growing thicker & more profusely - in fact evening primrose oil is often recommended as an aid to coat/hair growth (in humans as well as dogs) When a dog's coat becomes sparse for whatever reason, it's often advised to put them the dog on evening primrose oil. So what I am saying is that these supplements will improve coat condition but that's it :) I think it's also been mentioned before that fine coated oranges & golds suffer the least obvious coat changes post-neutering - it's entirely a different matter with a solid black, isn't it Michele ;D                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: *Jay* on October 02, 2002, 07:35:02 AM
Jane, I had a feeling either you or Michele would come on and say it was all a load of codswallop ;D Brook is booked in to be clipped a week on monday and I've booked Vegas in as well basically just for a bath and tidy up as I don't think his coat is ready to give yet but his legs are very fluffy. His coat doesn't feel thick to me but I'll ask the groomer what she thinks and then I can cancel the op(again!) if she feels it is quite thick. You must feel you are repeating yourself over and over again on this thread .......sorry ::)                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: FionaM on October 02, 2002, 08:31:18 AM
Sorry I didn't mean to start spreading rumours about miracle cures for woolly coats  :)  Part of me did think it all sounded too good to be true but I thought Gill might be interested because the dogs were orange roans.

I've resigned myself to the fact that Poppys coat is probably going to drastically change so I'll just have to be extra vigilant with my grooming - I've bought a pair of thinning scissors and I've been practicing already  ;D

Thanks for all the advice on this Jane (and everyone else)  :)

Fiona                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Jane S on October 02, 2002, 09:46:19 AM
I'm not "dissing" evening primrose oil honestly :) Some of my Cockers are on it permanently, including Daisy, my old spayed lady. I prefer starflower oil myself, more expensive but seems to be more effective. I hope it didn't come across that I was rubbishing you Fiona - I didn't mean too, I wasjust pointing out that EPO won't work miracles - wish it did as I have a bitch who is dropping her coat like mad following her season & it would be great if EPO could stop this but it hasn't :(                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Michele on October 02, 2002, 06:13:48 PM
Evening primrose oil capsules are good for coats (I think I mentioned them before on another thread) but whilst they will help prevent the coat "drying" out quite so much, they will not prevent the hair growing thicker & more profusely - in fact evening primrose oil is often recommended as an aid to coat/hair growth (in humans as well as dogs) When a dog's coat becomes sparse for whatever reason, it's often advised to put them the dog on evening primrose oil. So what I am saying is that these supplements will improve coat condition but that's it :) I think it's also been mentioned before that fine coated oranges & golds suffer the least obvious coat changes post-neutering - it's entirely a different matter with a solid black, isn't it Michele ;D

Absolutely Jane, there's no way I'm letting Otis 8) near any EPO ;D                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: funky on October 29, 2002, 04:02:24 PM
hi fiona,

I can't decide if I should get Megan speyed as I don't want her coat to change. I noticed on  your post that you know someone who uses evening primrose oil capsules. Do you know what strength they would be as I might put her on these if I decide to go ahead :-                    
Title: Coat change after spaying
Post by: Jane S on October 29, 2002, 05:28:41 PM
I give 1 x 1000mg EPO capsule a day for general "maintenance", more if I was treating a coat/skin problem. You do need to give a fairly high dose of EPO or it doesn't seem to have much affect.  Remember, EPO will help with general coat condition but it won't actually prevent the coat changes taking place in most cases.