CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Grooming => Topic started by: Neon on October 13, 2011, 10:38:51 PM
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Could someone please tell me: is it true that if you clip a young puppy, does that prevent the coat from ever being able to be hand stripped? Thanks
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Thats certainly the advice I read and so Toby being hand stipped :D
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Being clipped once shouldn't necessarily stop the pup from ever being handstripped, its not advisable but dogs have been hanstripped following a one off clip ;)
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Hi there - I've not had a spaniel before so not entirely sure what handstripping is and why?? Any help please?
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I was told when I got selby from a very reputable judge that he had to be hand stripped or his coat would go curly so I have him hand stripped, don't want to take a chance .
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Thanks all. Toby has been clipped once at 21 weeks and I would love to hand strip for that sleek, smooth look. It's difficult getting him to accommodate though!!
Pam, hand stripping is pinching out the dead undercoat in order to achieve a sleek, shiny look and needs to be done if you are considering showing. At the top of the grooming forum, there are lots of threads giving advice.
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I was told when I got selby from a very reputable judge that he had to be hand stripped or his coat would go curly so I have him hand stripped, don't want to take a chance .
That is the advice yes, but just because a pup has been clipped once won't make him un handstrippable ;) If an older dog has been clipped several times then yes it would be very difficult if not impossible.
Neon, I would attempt trying to handstrip him but it is hard work esp if Toby is not that co operative. As you are not showing then I really think you will be able to achieve the look you are after with a coat king and thinning scissors. There is a theory that the coat king will eventually make the coat curl, but I personally use it on my Black with good results ;)
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Thanks again Jo, will definately get a coat king and see how it goes. Toby hates it when I try and hand strip so don't want to put him off it. If Coat King can keep us going for a bit I can try hand stripping just occasionally. He is so woolly and I know that blacks can look gorgeous when hand stripped, I just want to have him looking something like a cocker, not a hairy mammoth LOL.
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He is still young , This is my fave picture of my wooly mammoth Belle at 5 mths :luv: :lol2:
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv306/bajoleth/belle002-1.jpg)
But she looked like this when she was 12 mths :luv:
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv306/bajoleth/belle064.jpg)
The fluff will come out I promise ;)
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I am not very experienced with grooming but isn't an elastic band threaded through a comb a good way of getting the dead hair out without damaging the rest of the coat?
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Yes it is and can be very effective but Dark blues and Blacks have notoriously dense hair and I found the comb and elastic band method effective with Monty whos coat is much finer, with Belle it worked somewhat but it was a case of not really getting anywhere. But yes lots of Colers swear by it ;)
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Jo. Belle is gorgeous and that first picture of her looks like Toby except he doesn't have the "mop" on top LOL. Have you got any piccies of her back so I can see how the coat king has left it. That would be great thanks. PS - Jo, what size Coat King do you recommend?
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No problem will take an up to date one of her later for you ;)
PS - Jo, what size Coat King do you recommend? PS - Jo, what size Coat King do you recommend?
Posted on: Yesterday at 02:04:42 PM Posted by: bajoleth
Thats the million Dollar Question ??? :005: They are numbered in relevance to the number of teeth they have, I personally have a number 12 as that is what was recommended to me by her Breeder, its what they used on their retired Show Dogs, but I think the recommended one is a 26 or a 20 for a Cocker. Not sure which would get the most hair out to be honest, I may invest in a 20 myself for Monty as his hair is finer? But its a 12 I use and have had good results with ;)
See here for blade sizes
http://www.diamondedgeltd.com/acatalog/Stripping_Knives_and_Coat_Kings.html
I bought mine from ebay but on looking this morning they don't look any cheaper :-\ Have a search online just make sure its a Mars and you will be fine ;) I think its worth its weight in gold :lol2:
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I have the 20 here and bought it recently as was struggling with a patch on Quinn (where his back meets his tail - so technical :005:). Most of his puppy coat I got out at home.
It did scare me using it though incase I ruined his coat so have used it very lightly in some places.
Indie was coat kinged at 7.5 months and she had a very very hairy coat because I didn't strip her out at all - she was my first cocker and I didn't realise you could do it yourself :005: , she went to a groomer for her first hair cut, she looked a right mop when she went and was totally transformed. Here's the effect of the coat king and her puppy coat.
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=42490.30
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Jo, thanks for that info, I'll do a bit of research on which one I need, as long as it's not a fine one apparently. Looking forward to seeing pics of Belle, thanks so much X
Jeanette, "Miss Slaphead" as you called her :005: :005: looks gorgeous. If you've achieved that effect on her coat with a coat king then I'm happy to use one.
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Jo, thanks for that info, I'll do a bit of research on which one I need, as long as it's not a fine one apparently. Looking forward to seeing pics of Belle, thanks so much X
Jeanette, "Miss Slaphead" as you called her :005: :005: looks gorgeous. If you've achieved that effect on her coat with a coat king then I'm happy to use one.
Well the groomer did :005: She now has short back and sides - courtesy of being spayed at 11 months old - she had a lovely coat for all of about 6 months, now she looks like a fraggle.
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This is the best pic I could get, Monty kept hassling us, hes just a jealous guy :005: :005: Excuse the legs she is in desperate need for a good trim, she was clipped off last Nov due to an accident with Gloss but it is coming back lovely, she has always had a kink to her coat so will never be poker straight but it def hasn't got any curlier with the Coat king, please excuse the old patio furniture ph34r
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv306/bajoleth/2011-10-16135059.jpg)
What came off in a couple of minutes this morning
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv306/bajoleth/2011-10-16135202-Copy.jpg)
Hope this helps, I will try and get a full one of her later ;)
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OMG Jo, that much came off this morning wow. Her coat looks great and if I can get Toby's looking like that I will be more than happy. Thanks so much for your help. XX
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That was just a quick 5 min tidy up for the pic ;) its dead hair, you can see the little white roots so I know most of it is not being 'cut' if you know what I mean ;)
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Yup, know exactly what you mean. Just looking for a coat king now.
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Just ordered Mars Coat King Original 20 blade from Amazon - can't wait to try it :D
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Let us know how you get on ;)
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Yes, I will, thanks for all your help Jo
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No problem :luv:
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Hi, just to let you know Coat King came this morning so Toby been scalped LOL. Jo, it's taken off about double what is in your photo after only a few minutes on his back and sides. The only thing I'm a weeny bit worried about though is that it was making like a scratching noise and I'm worried it might have been cutting the top coat. But will see how I go with it.
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Hi Neon, will be really interested to see how you get on. I have the same task pending. :005:
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Hi Neon, will be really interested to see how you get on. I have the same task pending. :005:
Hi Avis, keep an eye on this thread and I'll keep you updated. You can only use a Coat King once a week/fortnight so it will be a slow process. To be honest, Toby's top coat looks like undercoat anyway so it's very much an experiment for me.
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Darwin has always had a very woolly sheep like coat, in way still puppy like, He's 2 1/2 and clipped every 2 or 3 months. Would you still be able to use a king coat on such a coat?
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Darwin has always had a very woolly sheep like coat, in way still puppy like, He's 2 1/2 and clipped every 2 or 3 months. Would you still be able to use a king coat on such a coat?
Darwin, I don't know to be honest. Do you know anybody who can lend you one so you can see if it makes any difference? No point in buying one if it won't do the job!
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Darwin has always had a very woolly sheep like coat, in way still puppy like, He's 2 1/2 and clipped every 2 or 3 months. Would you still be able to use a king coat on such a coat?
I doubt it, Indie's coat grows woolly but thats because she was spayed and is clipped, I've tried it on her and it doesn't do anything and to be honest the only thing that can be done with her coat now is clippering.
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Jeanette, just out of curiosity, Indie's coat looked lovely when she was being coat kinged. Does spaying prevent the coat from being handstripped/coat kinged? If so is it because after spaying, her coat grew back more thickly and the coat king couldn't do anything. I don't quite understand why spaying prevents handstipping/coat kinging.
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Spaying doesn't always change the coat as there are some on here I'm sure who have still managed to coat king, however Indie was a thick coated black/tan so her coat changed dramatically after spaying and was no longer an option. It got to the stage where it was difficult to even comb it let alone coat king it. Thick, woolly and constantly matting was how she ended up.
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What a shame, so if a coat is that thick, only one choice and that's clip it then.
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What a shame, so if a coat is that thick, only one choice and that's clip it then.
Woolly and thick, you'd know if that was the case because you can't do a thing with it. It was a shame because I liked her with a long coat.
She went from this before coat change
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Jeanette999_photo/garden2.jpg)
to this which was her first clip as her coat was changing - still with some feathers
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Jeanette999_photo/012.jpg)
to this (all off) :-(
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Jeanette999_photo/030-1.jpg)
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Oh what a shame it thickened her coat so much. In picture 1 her coat is gorgeous. It's Ok in picture 2 as well. I can't believe the difference! But she still looks gorgeous.
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Oh what a shame it thickened her coat so much. In picture 1 her coat is gorgeous. It's Ok in picture 2 as well. I can't believe the difference! But she still looks gorgeous.
Spayed at 10.5 months. First full clip off, feathers and all was at almost 3 years old, so it didn't happen overnight, it just got worse and worse over time.
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The only thing I'm a weeny bit worried about though is that it was making like a scratching noise and I'm worried it might have been cutting the top coat.
You can get them in the bathtub, get the dog all soaped up (or conditioner) and then use the coat king while wet and lathered. I know lots of people who do this, they get tons of coat and the shampoo or conditioner help protect the coat ;) (Just be sure to us a hair trap or something on the drain! :P)
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Glad you got on ok with it ;), I sometimes use Groomers evening primrose oil grooming spray before I use the Mars it smells gorgeous too ;)
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Glad you got on ok with it ;), I sometimes use Groomers evening primrose oil grooming spray before I use the Mars it smells gorgeous too ;)
The only thing I'm a weeny bit worried about though is that it was making like a scratching noise and I'm worried it might have been cutting the top coat.
You can get them in the bathtub, get the dog all soaped up (or conditioner) and then use the coat king while wet and lathered. I know lots of people who do this, they get tons of coat and the shampoo or conditioner help protect the coat ;) (Just be sure to us a hair trap or something on the drain! :P)
Two great tips there, thanks.
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Maike has a very short, fine coat (she's a worker and both parents were golden) and she is still very young but I was told by a groomer that her colour would change if she ever got clipped - she has such stunning foxy fur that I'd really hate for that to happen. At what age should I start thinking about grooming her? I do brush her but to be honest she has such a short coat there is nothing to brush (her feathers are coming in now, though :luv:).
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The sooner you can start grooming (brushing, combing etc) the better in order to get them used to it. I don't know a lot about the working strain except they have finer coats which I don't think need clipping. There's a 13 month old golden worker that Toby plays with and the only bit of trimming she needs is her feet. Her coat is very fine and silky and only needs a quick brush. She has a fair bit of feathering which needs to be combed regularly too. I think the working coat is much easier to manage than the show coat and I don't think you will ever need to clip her (but someone may correct me if I'm wrong).
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Hi all, just to let you know I have been using the coat king now for a few weeks. Yesterday, Toby went to the groomer for a tidy up and I asked her not to clip his back, so she used a coat king on him too. Have to say his back is looking so much sleeker. Hopefully it will get even better over time so it's a thumbs up for the coat king from me. :banana: