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Cocker Specific Discussion => Grooming => Topic started by: *-Nikki-* on March 30, 2005, 07:57:47 PM

Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: *-Nikki-* on March 30, 2005, 07:57:47 PM
I was having a discussion about this recently and I know some exhibitors trim the tops of the ears with thinners and some hand pluck :) .
I have been shown by two experienced groomers/exhibitors and both use different techniques  :) and I suppose it’s down to what the individual is happy with and what they feel is more asthetically pleasing :) .
So...I was wondering which style the exhibitors on here prefer :unsure: .  
TIA
Nicola  :D
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Pammy on March 30, 2005, 07:59:38 PM
When I showed the boys I used thinners blending in to as far as I could handstrip down from the head.

I think in part it's also how tender/tough your pooch is as some seem to find it more uncomfortable on the ears than others :( .
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: *-Nikki-* on March 30, 2005, 08:13:43 PM
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When I showed the boys I used thinners blending in to as far as I could handstrip down from the head.

I think in part it's also how tender/tough your pooch is as some seem to find it more uncomfortable on the ears than others :( .
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Thanks for replying so quickly :) .
I have been handstripping the head (would never touch that area with thinners :blink: !) and plucking as much as possible of the top of the ears, however I have found that it is fairly easy to get bold patches in this area  :ph34r: and as you have stated it is quite a tender area for the dogs, and therefore have used the thinners to blend in :) .
Just out of interest, wondered if there was a 'correct' way :) .
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Pammy on March 30, 2005, 08:27:44 PM
I have also seen dogs at shows that have been very clearly clipped on the tops of the ears! :o
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Jane S on March 30, 2005, 08:41:06 PM
I think it depends on the dog & the coat type to be honest. I might prefer to hand strip the top of the ears but sometimes it's not possible - Ruby's ears have always been hand stripped but I could never do this with Rhona because of the bald patch problem ;) As long as it looks as natural as possible, I don't think it really matters which method you use (just as long as you don't get the clippers out :lol:)

Jane
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2005, 09:02:58 PM
I hate to see the top of the ears clippered on a showdog  :(
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Cob-Web on March 31, 2005, 06:50:17 PM
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I hate to see the top of the ears clippered on a showdog  :(
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Funny this should be mentioned; the cocker that was in the BBC Crufts Studio had obviously had the tops of its ears 'clipped'  :blink:  - I had been meaning to ask about it.........I take it is is accepatable in the ring then?
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Jane S on April 01, 2005, 10:29:45 AM
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Funny this should be mentioned; the cocker that was in the BBC Crufts Studio had obviously had the tops of its ears 'clipped'  :blink:  - I had been meaning to ask about it.........I take it is is accepatable in the ring then?
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No clipping a show dog's ears isn't accepted as such but it does happen sometimes. If you're talking about the orange Cocker who featured in the Crufts TV program, she is a Veteran bitch I think so perhaps more allowances can be made in her particular case ;)

Jane
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: *-Nikki-* on April 01, 2005, 11:20:27 AM
Thanks for all your replies  :)
Wouldn't dare go near the show dogs with clippers tho :huh:  :lol:

Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: MummyJane on April 14, 2005, 11:52:55 PM
I am sure that this is quite common with some of the German dogs, a lot of Cockers over here have the top of the ears clipped as well as the top of the neck.  A German friend of mine shows one of her dogs and I am sure he gets it done  :blink: I think I will stick to thinning out Alfies, not sure he would like them hand stripped, he can be a real baby  :P

Jane x
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: LouiseH on April 18, 2005, 11:16:23 AM
There are more cocker people that clip throats and ears than I think Jane realises?????? The way I was shown by an experienced breeder was to clip, and although I have stopped this on my oranges as I don't like the finished result, but my clippers do give a better finish on my dark blues - i find the thinners still leave bold patches as the surface is not "flat" and the hair goes very wavey in that area, especially once thinners have been used once, but perhaps this is something to do with my breeding lines?

My swedish import has his ears clipped as once they have been clipped it is difficult to get them right with thinners, and a judged has never once mentioned it to me, and he is still being placed in good competition...but yes they do do things differently in different countries.

I find that where cockers have been stripped on their ears, people are not able to take enough hair off and it spoils the natural ear set...JMHO.

We have just acquired our first english setter and to my horror they use thinners to trim everywhere, apart from the back and sides.....eeeeeeek.

With my field spaniel I always found the hair was silky and thin enough to use thinners, but generally speaking fields have lots less coat than cockers.
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Jane S on April 18, 2005, 11:41:29 AM
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There are more cocker people that clip throats and ears than I think Jane realises??????

I find that where cockers have been stripped on their ears, people are not able to take enough hair off and it spoils the natural ear set...JMHO.
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No Louise, I'm well aware that there are exhibitors who clip the ears & necks of their Cockers but none of the top breeders I respect & admire do ;) I have judged dogs whose ears have plainly been clipped - I don't like the affect personally as it's too severe but if the dog is better than others in the class, it will win because you're judging the dog not the trimming - it doesn't mean I have to like it though :lol: I also don't agree with you that if you strip the ears, you can't take enough hair off which spoils the ear set. If you look at my avatar, I don't think you could criticise Ruby's ear set & her ears have been stripped, not clipped or scissored ;) I could also name you any number of other top winners whose ears are stripped & again, there's nothing wrong with their ear sets. I guess in the end it comes down to the skill of the groomer & whether the coat lends itself to stripping or not - if it doesn't then a good groomer should be able to use thinners & not resort to clippers. Just my opinion of course - we shall have to agree to differ on this subject :)

Jane
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Gilly on April 18, 2005, 12:58:29 PM
Now I recently bought clippers and the last time I groomed Roana I used them on her neck and tops of ears and I have to say the finish was less than pleasing even on a pet. Maybe I am old fashioned  ;) It took me alot longer yesterday using thinners but the finish is sooo much nicer.
I am practising grooming at the moment and far from perfect but I always think that if you want to do well aim high which in my opinion means not cutting any corners.
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: cbabe on April 18, 2005, 02:22:25 PM
I've studied Janes dogs and i like the way she has stripped the ears - it looks natural and is a look i want to achieve with both of mine. Clippering (to me) looks a little severe - with a look that reminds me of the American cocker.

It's personal preferance at the end of the day - and show success clippered or otherwise depends on the opinion of the judge!
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Penel on April 23, 2005, 10:03:23 PM
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We have just acquired our first english setter and to my horror they use thinners to trim everywhere, apart from the back and sides.....eeeeeeek.

Just seen this thread - why are you horrified that they trim English setters with thinners ?  they don't trim everywhere - feet, ears, throat, and shoulders should be all you do (ears are very tricky) - perhaps tidy up the tail with a straight end - but there should be no trimming of body fur or tummy feathers, or chest or leg feathers... :lol:   here is a pic of my girl last summer when she was all looking pretty for a show... I find it far far easier grooming her than I do my show strain cocker !

(http://www.mypetpages.net/artists/1975/0/f1b0dde88e0041cc1352e300beb244ea.JPG)
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Luvly on April 23, 2005, 10:13:31 PM
 :o
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: LouiseH on April 26, 2005, 01:00:11 PM
sorry - what I meant was I am horrified because it is not what I am used to, the thought of so much trimming with thinners and no handstripping.....just feels very odd, I didn't mean it makes them look funny!

Your ES looks beautiful.

Just seen this thread - why are you horrified that they trim English setters with thinners ?  they don't trim everywhere - feet, ears, throat, and shoulders should be all you do (ears are very tricky) - perhaps tidy up the tail with a straight end - but there should be no trimming of body fur or tummy feathers, or chest or leg feathers... :lol:   here is a pic of my girl last summer when she was all looking pretty for a show... I find it far far easier grooming her than I do my show strain cocker !

(http://www.mypetpages.net/artists/1975/0/f1b0dde88e0041cc1352e300beb244ea.JPG)
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Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: LouiseH on April 26, 2005, 01:10:24 PM
No jane, I didn't mean to sound so general, there are plenty of cocker folk whos cockers ears look lovely when trimmed, including Ruby ;-) I was not speaking for ALL cockers I have seen... just the majority - sorry.

I also do not clip tops of ears on oranges and I find livers are the same, it changes the colour of the coat and looks horrible. My blues have previously been clipped but I am going to try and use thinners from now on I think and see if I can get a better finish, perhaps I am doing it wrong or just need more practice.

Pity there aren't any trimming workshops where we can go and watch how it's done, I know other breeds have events like this. I have only ever been shown by one breeder and to be honest I don't think I was shown correctly....and I feel the trimming video uses the thinners far too often.....JMHO

Perhaps we could use such an event to raise some money for the FN Fund....I wonder if Sandy would be willing to help with such an event?

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There are more cocker people that clip throats and ears than I think Jane realises??????

I find that where cockers have been stripped on their ears, people are not able to take enough hair off and it spoils the natural ear set...JMHO.
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No Louise, I'm well aware that there are exhibitors who clip the ears & necks of their Cockers but none of the top breeders I respect & admire do ;) I have judged dogs whose ears have plainly been clipped - I don't like the affect personally as it's too severe but if the dog is better than others in the class, it will win because you're judging the dog not the trimming - it doesn't mean I have to like it though :lol: I also don't agree with you that if you strip the ears, you can't take enough hair off which spoils the ear set. If you look at my avatar, I don't think you could criticise Ruby's ear set & her ears have been stripped, not clipped or scissored ;) I could also name you any number of other top winners whose ears are stripped & again, there's nothing wrong with their ear sets. I guess in the end it comes down to the skill of the groomer & whether the coat lends itself to stripping or not - if it doesn't then a good groomer should be able to use thinners & not resort to clippers. Just my opinion of course - we shall have to agree to differ on this subject :)

Jane
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Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Gilly on April 26, 2005, 02:44:51 PM
Your right, to much thinning on Liver ears does make them go silvery  :huh:
Cocker Club of Scotland did a Breed Seminar (with Sandy Platt) and a trimming workshop with Wilma Reid last year, think it was around June.
I know that some of the other breed clubs do similar seminars, hopefully someone might have more info for you. I think the thing with trimming is that everyone seems to do it different and it finding the best way for you that achieves the best results, I struggle along but my grooming leaves alot to be desired  :(
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Jane S on April 26, 2005, 05:01:40 PM
I think the quality of scissors also makes a huge difference - I've been using my "reserve" scissors this week as my good ones have gone off to be sharpened & the finish is nowhere near as nice as with my better scissors. As Gilly says, everyone does things differently anyway - I've been to quite a few Grooming seminars over the years & some people use scissors a heck of a lot more than I would whereas others stick more to the traditional methods.

Jane
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: Gilly on April 26, 2005, 06:15:53 PM
So what scissors?? I know this varies widely to. At the moment I have:

Roseline Single Sided thinners.
Fischer Straight for feet.
Fischer Double sided thinners. Now I know I shouldn't use these  :ph34r: but I actually quite like them, not sure I'd use them for a show dog but they work well instead of clippers on a pet.
Title: Trimming The Top Of The Ears
Post by: sashal on April 26, 2005, 09:25:47 PM
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I don't think you could criticise Ruby's ear set & her ears have been stripped, not clipped or scissored

I'm a big fan of Ruby she has a beautiful head  :D

Being involved in my main breed where virtually all coat work is handstripping I do think it gives a much better effect. I find I have to scissor the top of our Blue Roans ear's but with Millie the Chocolate Roan I am able to strip it all down to give a typical earset. Of course I don't have anywhere near the experience of a lot of Cocker people in grooming but I do think it looks much better.
I have heard of people clippering necks but I just thin them.

I'm not very happy with my thinning scissors as they don't seem to get close enough. What make has everyone else got?

Alex