clipper argument to settle....

[Harry Blue]

Hi there,

We have finally taken the plunge with clippers and after two weeks of acclimatisation for Harry,  we groomed him today and for the first time in many many months, Harry looks like the beautiful cocker spaniel he is, again. We've done his head, throat, ears and feet - and while not perfect (I admit he has a very small bald patch on his head where he wriggled at the wrong time) and an uneven strip on his face - but it's pretty good for a first attempt, and huge improvement on what we were achieving with thinning scissors.

However, my husband and I are having words about whether to use the clipper on the rest of his body. Up til now, we have only used the coat king and thinning scissors to do legs/body etc. I am really worried about turning him into a curly coated mess if we use clippers on his body, but James is insisting that hair doesn't know what's been used to cut it, therefore what's the difference - and using the clipper is the same as scissors.

Is it the act of cutting hair on the body that can make it go curly - and should we stick to coat king?

Please settle a domestic dispute....

Lucy....

[bev6951]

i really dont know much about grooming but when looking for a cocker a couple of years ago I did ask advice about coats and alot of breeders told me that blue roans have a much more demanding coat and that the texture etc of orange roans is easier to manage, so we went for an orange, I have the clippers used on wilson and his coat is silky still, my friend used the clippers on her blue roan ( he is actually mostly blk) and his coat has gone majorly curly.  so I dont know if this is down to clippering it or just coincidence 

[Aearoniel]

I think it's because the hair all gets cut to the same length, with stripping the hair is removed when dead and there is a rolling coat so some hair is ready to strip and all the hair is at different lengths, with scissors/thinners you don't get all the hair to the same length either hence no curling, then with clippers all the hair is cut to the same length and because of the thickness of black cocker hair it is all growing at the same length and doesn't have space to lie flat so it turns into a wooly mess! With OR the coat is lighter and there is less of it giving the hair space to lie flat.

At least that's my theory!

Oh plus black hair is fluffier than the white which adds to the curl anyway

[Jane S]

Repeated clippering of the body coat will alter the coat texture and results in faster, thicker re-growth of the hair. Sometimes this regrowth is wavy/curly but not always - our blue roan boy is clipped now he's neutered and his hair grows back mostly straight but we've had others who do get wavy coats after clipping. The worst coats for going curly after clippering are solid blacks in my experience but it can happen to any colour.

[JaspersMum]

I swore I wouldn't clipper Jasper but his coat was just soo heavy and in winter matts easily whilst he seemed too hot in Summer, so we clipper him. I used Michelle's guide on blades to use so he doesn't look too scalped. The markings change though and roans can look quite dappled, the orange in Jasper is less pronounced too.

That said Jasper is Orange roan he went from this
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/jaspersmum/P1140113.jpg
to this
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/jaspersmum/299e942d.jpg

I do have to keep on top of it, it's already looking a bit fuzzy in places, but the beauty of having your own clippers and DIY is you can tidy as and when  

Can't comment on Blues as Louie's part worker means I don't have to do a thing to his coat.  

[Aearoniel]

Repeated clippering of the body coat will alter the coat texture and results in faster, thicker re-growth of the hair. Sometimes this regrowth is wavy/curly but not always - our blue roan boy is clipped now he's neutered and his hair grows back mostly straight but we've had others who do get wavy coats after clipping. The worst coats for going curly after clippering are solid blacks in my experience but it can happen to any colour.

I have to say scientifically clippering can't result in faster regrowth as the hair is dead apart from the follicle, so any type of cutting done to the shaft of the hair cannot be transmitted down the hair to tell it to grow faster, it is the same with human hair and the myth that shaving makes the hair grow thicker and faster http://www.electrology.com/pdf/effectsofshaving.pdf.
The blunt edge of the cut hair gives a sense of thickness but in truth it is no thicker than the previous hair just the natural taper of the hair is gone. A sense of faster growth is far more likely to be because the natural mixture of lengths of hair in the coat is gone and it is all coming at once at the same level.

[ladylola]

Sasha [solid liver] has always been clippered all over and she has turned into a very curly girl.

[Jane S]

I have to say scientifically clippering can't result in faster regrowth as the hair is dead apart from the follicle, so any type of cutting done to the shaft of the hair cannot be transmitted down the hair to tell it to grow faster, it is the same with human hair and the myth that shaving makes the hair grow thicker and faster http://www.electrology.com/pdf/effectsofshaving.pdf.
The blunt edge of the cut hair gives a sense of thickness but in truth it is no thicker than the previous hair just the natural taper of the hair is gone. A sense of faster growth is far more likely to be because the natural mixture of lengths of hair in the coat is gone and it is all coming at once at the same level.

I stand corrected - my post should of course have said "will give the appearance of faster regrowth" Whatever the science, anyone who has a neutered show-type Cocker that needs clipping will find they need to keep on top of the coat more often than they might have done before & even when a dog is not neutered, coat changes after repeated clippering are very much a reality, whatever the reasons for this.

[Luvly]

 , 

[spanielcrazy]

I don't know what the science is, I only know what I am looking at. I have clipped enough cockers, springers and many other breeds over long term and just know that it does alter the coat. How that is I don't know but I suspect that it is partially due to cutting all the hair, undercoat and guard hairs as said, and the fact that clippered coats are usually not carded (stripped) after clipping. (Think I'll try and experiment and card Joy's coat after I clip her--she's way overdue for a trim  )

That said, if you intend to continue clipping for the life of the dog, they look just fine, and when the trim is maintained the coat change is not apparent. It is just when they grow out and get overdue for grooming that you can seee the change.

You can also use the snap on comb attachments, they do not seem to alter the coat, as they don't reach the undercoat so don't have the same effect, and leave a very natural finish 

[Jane S]

I don't know what the science is, I only know what I am looking at. I have clipped enough cockers, springers and many other breeds over long term and just know that it does alter the coat.

Yep, same here I don't think the science really matters - owners just need to know that a coat that has been repeatedly clipped will change but as long as you keep on top of it with regular trims, your dog can still look smart

[Harry Blue]

Thnks for the advice everyone :-) We have persuaded James that clippers should only be used on Harry a a last resort, when scissors and the coat king are no longer enough to tame him.

I will try and get a pic of his new 'look' though - we keep looking at him and saying" Who's a handsome boy then"