Author Topic: No clippers - unrealistic?  (Read 2802 times)

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Offline JohnMcL

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No clippers - unrealistic?
« on: May 07, 2022, 06:10:06 PM »
Hi,
Am I being unrealistic thinking I can stay on top of a black cocker’s coat using Spratts combs, elastic bands and blending scissors please? She is 9 months old, very hairy and dropping coat but doesn’t look any different after an hour’s combing daily even though about a quarter of a carrier bag is coming out. I’m wondering if I need more tools like clippers as she looks like a yeti with very long side burns. I really can’t see her top knot going with just a Spratts 76 comb as it’s getting thicker and thicker. I’m concerned that in winter it’s going to be very difficult to dry her after walks.
I really would like to continue gently hand stripping and am aiming to keep her in full coat. Do any of you manage without clippers please? I’d prefer not to use a groomer.

Thanks.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2022, 06:44:29 PM »
Hi John, have you looked at the Coat King? Its good for stripping out the thick woolly undercoat, although I was warned about using it along the back. Its maybe worth trying it before you resort to clippers. There are some good videos online and the website will give advice about which one is best, as there are various models available. :luv:

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2022, 07:16:37 PM »
Thank you! I’d forgotten all about a Coat King, I’ll have a look for videos. At the minute I can’t see what is new coat and what is puppy coat so I’m reluctant to use anything with a blade in case I cause damage. I hadn’t factored facial hair in and she’s resembling a Newfoundland. I’ve not had to trim furry faces before, my other two don’t have hair growth between their eyes either?
I hope we’re at the tidy up stage, does it get easier when the fluff drops please?

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2022, 07:43:05 PM »
I think you are probably better to sit it out until the puppy coat‘s all out and then you can see what you‘re left with, I don’t think you’re supposed to use the coat king on the puppy hair. I‘m probably not the best to advise you, Humphrey‘s a gold sable and I think the black coats are generally a lot thicker anyway, he didn‘t really become a problem until he was castrated when it went very woolly and curly, - I now use a combination of clippers, coat king and scissors but its a mess anyway to be honest, I had to hack so much off when he was ill last year and totally incontinent just to keep him clean and I rather lost the plot.
Have you looked at any of the pins in the grooming section on here? there may be something in some of the old threads that might help or better still maybe someone else with a black cocker will be able to give you better advice. Sorry not to be of more help  :huh:

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2022, 08:15:09 PM »
You’ve really helped! Thank you! I think you’re right in leaving the coat alone until all the fluff falls. It’s difficult to see her shape yet, I think that’s why I can’t see where to start.
Humphrey is a beautiful pup, I saw your videos with him in the snow and he most certainly doesn’t look a mess!

I’ve got a few months to figure out what to do thankfully!

Offline phoenix

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2022, 11:09:53 PM »
I had good intentions with Bobby. His puppy fluff  had to go because it started matting. Two carrier bags!
The Mars coat king and scissors worked well except for feet.   He hated me doing it.When they got ridiculous,I had to go to a groomer.  The first ones ever did what I asked.  On the positive side,  his fur stayed gleaming black and silky.  He wasn’t neutered.  His coat was unbelievably thick and soaked up mud and rain. 
I found a new groomer who was like a dog whisperer, and seemed to hypnotise dogs into relaxing and getting beautiful natural looking clips. Trained in  hand stripping, she refused to do it, saying it was too long for the dogs , bad for her fingers, and very pricey.
As in my avatar, I kept Bobs head clipped short and shiny with fluffy ears.  Feet clipped as short as possible.  The rest was just called a puppy cut.
I couldn’t have done it myself without him  snarling and biting me.  I had to book him in every 6-8 weeks.
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Finvarra

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2022, 12:24:31 PM »
Dylan is a dark blue roan, and his coat grows like smoke, very thick and profuse. If I didn't use clippers on his head he wouldn't be able to see  :lol2:. I would wait for the puppy fluff to be ready to come out before doing anything drastic. I use a coat king on the body fur, and scissors for the legs and paws, but I clip the chest and head and top,third of the ears, plus the inside of the ears to keep them clean and airy and take some of the weight of them. Soo he has a typical clean cocker head. I did use to clip the legs, but I don't now, and I prefer the longer look, plus he hates his feet and legs being done with clipppers. Also he has had lip fold dermatitis and the clippers keep his chin really short, along with scissors.
Can't hand strip now due to arthritis, Imused to hand strip my five Scottie’s, along with scissoring and clipping, loads of work to keep a beautiful coat. Much more laid back now, as long as he's well brushed and can see, I'm happy 😁. I like him to look smart, but don't stress over it.
Remembering All the dogs of my life, especially Milo

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2022, 09:06:32 AM »
I had good intentions with Bobby. His puppy fluff  had to go because it started matting. Two carrier bags!
The Mars coat king and scissors worked well except for feet.   He hated me doing it.When they got ridiculous,I had to go to a groomer.  The first ones ever did what I asked.  On the positive side,  his fur stayed gleaming black and silky.  He wasn’t neutered.  His coat was unbelievably thick and soaked up mud and rain. 
I found a new groomer who was like a dog whisperer, and seemed to hypnotise dogs into relaxing and getting beautiful natural looking clips. Trained in  hand stripping, she refused to do it, saying it was too long for the dogs , bad for her fingers, and very pricey.
As in my avatar, I kept Bobs head clipped short and shiny with fluffy ears.  Feet clipped as short as possible.  The rest was just called a puppy cut.
I couldn’t have done it myself without him  snarling and biting me.  I had to book him in every 6-8 weeks.
Thanks Phoenix, Bobby looks perfectly groomed, he’s stunning!
The matting is hard work, even with a good hour a day combing I’m struggling to stay on top. The matting is close to the skin and the worst area is her armpits. I’m hand stripping carefully whilst dealing with the mats there but I think the real solution is to clip under her front legs.
Feet, hmmm. I can’t see feet for the sheep-like coat on her legs!
I’m going to keep going with the spratt’s comb and elastic bands, a lot of fluff comes out daily so surely I’ll see s difference soon; it can’t possible re-grow at the speed it’s coming out!
I very much relate to your comment about best intentions, I suspect I’m going to need a groomer to show me the ropes before long. Winter is going to be a problem unless I can, at the very least, get her feet and legs in order.
Really appreciate your comments. Thank you.

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2022, 09:37:37 AM »
Dylan is a dark blue roan, and his coat grows like smoke, very thick and profuse. If I didn't use clippers on his head he wouldn't be able to see  :lol2:. I would wait for the puppy fluff to be ready to come out before doing anything drastic. I use a coat king on the body fur, and scissors for the legs and paws, but I clip the chest and head and top,third of the ears, plus the inside of the ears to keep them clean and airy and take some of the weight of them. Soo he has a typical clean cocker head. I did use to clip the legs, but I don't now, and I prefer the longer look, plus he hates his feet and legs being done with clipppers. Also he has had lip fold dermatitis and the clippers keep his chin really short, along with scissors.
Can't hand strip now due to arthritis, Imused to hand strip my five Scottie’s, along with scissoring and clipping, loads of work to keep a beautiful coat. Much more laid back now, as long as he's well brushed and can see, I'm happy 😁. I like him to look smart, but don't stress over it.
Thanks Finvarra. Same here with not being able to see, I’ve had to resort to a hair band! Not much head hair is coming out with the Spratts and very little with hand stripping so it’s not ready. Her head is very thick, Afro looking, black and glossy but her back and legs are almost a chocolate thick fuzz so I think that’s puppy fluff/dead hair - this comes out far easier. I would like the clean head look in the future but am struggling to see how to get that via hand stripping so it may be that clippers are needed.
I’m going to reduce the sideburns and chin with blending scissors later on today as I don’t think doing so will damage anything. I’d like to get her used to the scissors too.
My Henry vacuum that has been great on building sites is clogged up with fur, I’ve never known this type of vacuum to stop working!
I have an 11 year old spayed Blue Roan but I didn’t have her as a pup. We have her half clipped due to a woolly coat but the groomer won’t help with the pup unless I agree to a full clip, I won’t do that.

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2022, 05:46:45 PM »
Well I think I’ve turned a corner today with grooming! I’ve spent all day watching vids on here and YouTube in several languages and *think* I’ve got a better hand stripping technique! Due to the volume of fur throughout the house I think she’s ready so started stripping her head, it’s going to be a very long project! I’ve been doing it whilst she’s asleep so I’m sure that I’m not hurting her.
I’ve worked out that I do need clippers/trimmers so am going to find a teacher before buying any.

She has beautifully long eyelashes and whiskers, I can’t bring myself to remove them and surely they have a purpose so they are staying.

I’m still baffled about where to start with her feet/legs!

Thanks for all your help  :D

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2022, 06:03:20 PM »
Would love to see some pictures at some time John!

Offline Finvarra

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2022, 07:35:24 PM »
My first dog after marriage was a rough haired Jack Russell (sharp as a tack, so clever). I used to give him a spring trim and leave his hair on the lawn for the birds. They picked it up for their nests, and flew off with it in their beaks like little Father Christmases 😁
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Offline sueneil

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2022, 03:17:56 PM »
Check out Mike Wildman's grooming videos- he is an internationally renowned groomer and owns cockers. You can find him via his website for his grooming business-Classie Grooming. Videos will show what and how to deal with puppy and adult coat and will also advise about grooming equipment. He has advice about the use of coatkings also and I would strongly advise you to watch/listen before using one on your cocker. I breed and show black cockers and I trust Mike's advice above any one else!

Offline JohnMcL

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Re: No clippers - unrealistic?
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2022, 04:06:56 PM »
Thanks Sue, his masterclass training vid packages look brilliant and not expensive. I’m contemplating making an appointment and buying the package. He’s a fair distance away but looks very worth the distance. Thanks for the recommendation.
John.