A Small Hiccup (help)

[Rich]

I wonder if any of you fellow working trainers out there can offer me some help/advice?

I'm training my first Cocker and she is now 5 months old and I'm struggling a bit with her retrieving to hand, She had been fine
up to a couple of weeks ago(before the penny dropped and  she has found out what her nose ls for)

She will retrieve with dummy in mouth and then run past me and lie down behind me a few yards away and wont come in to me or gets up and
runs another direction to a few yards again. I have stood my ground and not gone to her but this is becoming something like a Mexican standoff between us...

She has also started not coming in to me fully on a recall also, She hovers in front of me and trys to get off again but again i stand my ground and she will come in to me.

Is this a normal problem with Cocker's you have heard or seen?

I have trained Labs to a good standard so I'm not a complete novice i just have not come across this before but like i say this is my first Cocker...

Apart from this Hiccup I'm well excited about her as she is marvellous.


Many thanks in advance.

Richard

[Rich]

No takers then

 

[cdpops]

Sorry I cant help, I am sure when the sun goes down you'll get tons of advice.

[lyn]

i think there are two reasons you are having problems.
1.. she is 5 months old and about to hit the teenage phase of her life. this can last up to 18 months old but usually the worst is over by 10/12 months.
2... your dog is a bit young for proper gundog training, especially if you yourself have never done it before and have no experience. i think most gundog trainers don't start the serious stuff until the dog is about 1 year old. your dog should be learning basics just now. she is still a pup and i fear you expect to much from her.

i have a worker but she is strictly a pet dog therefore i don't do any kind of field training with her but, if i wanted to then i would only just be starting and she is now 18 months she just wasn't steady enough before

[Rich]

Lyn

Thanks for your reply

I do have experience in gundog training just not with Cockers..

As for the age thing its horses for courses as i see it as most modern trainers start from day one and trialers are normally in the field by 15 months or so.
I know they have all the time in the world etc. and a lot depends on the dogs behaviour and maturity etc. But they obviously have there dogs for one reason
for shooting, trialing, beating or a peg dog.

Thanks

Richard   

[wrenside]

Hi Richard,
sounds like you're doing really well with her 

I've come across this problem before, but not with my own working cocker, a friends dog did this.
There are two approaches or reasoning for this sort of behaviour in my opinion.
Either she is trying to 'play' with you on her terms and thus not returning the dummy to you and inviting you to chase her, which a young dog at her age is relatively inclinded to do.
Or she is wary of giving you her 'prize' and doesn't think that you've got anything better than what she's already got to exchange with her.

So in the first instance, I think the general idea is to go back to basics a bit and do some play with her (not with retrieves) so that you build up her love of your attention and that she really does think that you're the best thing since sliced bread. Then you go to do a basic retrieve and if she stops away from you then you turn your back on her. More likely than not she will come right into you to see what's up, make a fuss of her when she comes in close but don't take the retrieve from her immeidately (incase it is a possessive issue) Once you have her by your feet with retrieve in mouth try to exchange it with a tasty treat and give your command for leave it at the same time. She should release the retrieve ino your right hand and take the treat from your left. Once you have done this once successfully in this way leave it and do something else that she's got spot on like 'heel' or something and finish the short training session on a high for her and you. Then do another retieve the next day and then some other training work that she's good at and thus build up a positive and good raport with the retrieves. Slowly build up the number of retrives you practise per training session, but I would be tempted at her age to keep them short and few and far between because she's liable to have a few teenage tantrums etc... and it's better for her to have those when she's being asked to sit down rather than retrieve as the sit command is more easily reinforced properly again after her relapse.

If you think that she is wary of giving you her retrieve then again go back to basics and try to make yourself the bees knees in her eyes. Then do as above but have something of hers that she really loves, such as her favourite squeaky toy or a chew that she loves etc... when she stops on the retrieve make her aware of what you have on your person and coax her to come in towards you. if she does then make a quick fuss of her and give her a treat or a squeak of her toy etc... Then follow this routine and she should begin to rush right up to you in order to get her retrieve exchanged for something better. Then  only reward every other retieve with her toy etc.. but always praise by giving her a stroke or a word of encouragement. Finally you'll be able to wean her onto just the odd treat every now and again.

I hope this helps 

Your little one's a cracker, the very best of luck with her training 

I'm just starting out again with training my new  9 week old dog pup  whereas Bella, his mum, is being geared up for the grouse again this year and is as solid as a rock

Best wishes

Mary

[Wendy G]

Hi Richard

Have you tried getting down to her level when she is returning to you?  Perhaps now that you view it as a problem your anxiety  is showing in your face, and you are appearing as menacing to her.  Get down on your haunches, encourage her to you and smile!. When she does come to you, fuss her before taking the dummy from her.

Hope this helps

[Rich]

Mary

Thanks very much for your detailed reply, I will have a go and see how we get on.

Thanks

Rich
 

[Rich]

Hi Richard

Have you tried getting down to her level when she is returning to you?  Perhaps now that you view it as a problem your anxiety  is showing in your face, and you are appearing as menacing to her.  Get down on your haunches, encourage her to you and smile!. When she does come to you, fuss her before taking the dummy from her.

Hope this helps

Wendy

It isn't anxiety in my face or I'm not menacing to her.
I have allways looked like this and my mum loves me just the way i am....


p.s thanks for the reply...

Rich 

[wrenside]

You're welcome Rich 

Good luck with her 

Best wishes

Mary

[cazza]

Hiya Rich

Good luck with your training

CanI suggest that to stop the running behind you that you get her to return to you with you having your back against a wall etc so she can't run behind you  so simple but sometimes we don't think of the very simple things    (I had the same problem and got told to do the above  )  Now i have other problems but am ashamed to say they are of my own making 

[Alpha]

i completely agree with Cazza if there is no where she can shoot past you she will stop at your feet, when they are puppies you should be down at their level so i would crouch down and be really enthuastic in your recall. 
A piece of advice I had this week was at this age you should be concentrating on a 100% recall. This was from a guy who is working with Simon Tyers once a week

"I only start "real" training at about 10mths, until then I only train the recall & the occassional retrieve ( 1 or 2 a week) As you say let them enjoy the puppyhood within reason.
When you give the recall put yourself in the situation where you are obeyed 100%, no ifs or buts. If you only give it when the pup is coming in to you that should give you success. If she ever doesn't respond to any command get after her & make sure the command is obeyed.  Getting her hunting instinct to where you want it to be is important as this will be a major part of her job. Keep the dog close & just walk her over some gamey ground to introduce hunting. No commands just change direction often & use her name to keep her coming across you"

I suppose it depends on what you want her to do in the end, but she is a cocker and her job will be completely different to your Labs. Her training should reflect this as well.

Having had both I found my Lab Raven a dream to train, the only problem I ever had with him was after the second gun went off her was ready to run in, however we soon got over that one by simply keeping him on a lead until the get on command.

Lilly is a lot more biddable than my first spaniel Badger was but his whole pedigree was FT CH (in his 5 generations pedigree only 5 of the dogs weren't) and I now realise he had been bred for trialling rather than shooting so he was really too much for me as a first dog. I would look at her breeding and decide what training will get her to where you want her, IMO lots of FT's and you need to be red hot on steadiness.

But good luck, me and Lilly start our groundwork for grade 1 this weekend so I will probably be posting in tears no doubt.