Working - The Low Down!

[hollyd443]

Hiya,

After a bit of a frustrating weekend of agility with Roxy, I'm thinking of doing some different types of training with her. I'm not going to stop the agility, just want to try something along side. I'm ashamed to say (even though I own two working type cockers  ) I really don't know anything about working them as I had them for pets and to do a bit of agility!

I used to do certain elements (scale, veeeery long jump, scent work etc) with my collie with a man who used to have gundogs and shepherds. Is this part of working or does working refer to all the flushing birds etc? I honestly have no idea and find that really embaressing! If someone could give me an insight/over view that'd be great.

Where I'm struggling with Roxy is that agility is toooo fun, she runs round and barks - no concentration, won't wait on the start line etc. I'd like to do some more controlled type work?

Anyone any ideas?!

Many thanks,

Holly

[Helen]

just posted a book you might be interested in on SkyeSue's thread

http://www.learningaboutdogs.com/acatalog/gundogbk.html

some workers are all rounders - flush and retrieve, Jarv is not good on retrieving (unless it's his dummy  )but will flush all day (but needs to be CONSTANTLY kept in close control - one slip of my concentration and he would happily to a bit of bird chasing if he gets over excited  Fortunately he will stop on a stop whistle but it can be a battle of wits)

[Nicola]

The scale, long jump, scent work etc. are part of training for working trials which are different to gundog work.

A good start is always to speak to the breeders of your dogs - I'm assuming they work their dogs if they're breeding them - and they should be able to give you some pointers. You can also try the Gundog Club website (just google it) they offer beginners' training courses and can also provide the names of trainers in various areas. I don't know if you do clicker training but Clicker Gundog by Helen Phillips is a good book to look at if you want to start doing some elements of gun training yourself.

Gun work for Cockers in a nutshell involves the controlled flushing out of game, waiting for them to be shot and then finding and retrieving them if asked to do so. There is a lot involved in training for all the aspects of creating a good shooting companion and steadiness is the most important element but if you're not going to work the dog then you can pick and choose some bits and pieces of the training to focus on and you don't have to worry so much about things like dropping to shot or retrieving cold and warm game. This type of training is excellent for channelling their drive and getting them to focus on you and on doing a job which befits their natural instincts.

[millrace]

take a read thru the "felstead gundogs" (just google it) web site, has a really good history of cockers what they do and loads of info training tips etc....well worth a read!

[JohnW]

Hi Holly,

How long have you been doing agilty with your dogs? I am now agilty training 3 of our dogs and 2 of my gang are training in gundog field work at present. At first I found agility soooo frustrating with badly behaved dogs, constant barking and Bailey who I first started to train just basically not taking any notice at all. I found I was getting nowhere and after 3 weeks I was ready to throw in the towel, but something suddenly clicked and after blaming Bailey for not doing as he was told I realised it was actually my own actions and body language that wasnt correct. Even Now nearly 6 months on I am not brilliant and make various mistakes on commands. Bailey and the girls are now getting on great and they really love Agility. I am not sure how you will combine agility and Feild training together as i find them very different but where theres a will theres a way I guess.. Good luck and keep us posted. John.

[hollyd443]

Hi All,

Thank you for your advice.  I thought that the scales/long jumps/scent work must've been separate but I think being trained that by a Gundog trainer was what confused me! I'm trying to find the mans telephone number to see if he's still doing that type of work as I think Roxy would excel at working trials. Will let you know how it goes.

Thank you Nicola for the "in a nutshell" insight, thats just what I needed  I think I need to do some 1-to-1 walks with Rox (as I used to when she was younger), doing downstays, retrieving her dummy things on whistle command. She used to be excellent at this but I bet she's a bit rusty now as I've not done it for ages. I think Rio and Mika would benefit from this also. Not enough hours in the day at the moment!  I'll have a look at getting the clicker book - looks very helpful.

JohnW - Thank you for your posting. I've been doing agility training since I was 11 (so for 12yrs now  !!). Rox has been doing it for over a year (she's nearly 2yrs old) What irritates me is Roxy has soooo much potential! She won her class at her first show and went on to have other high placings, however recently I really don't know whats happend! Shes lunging at other dogs in the queue, barking at the competing dogs etc - I've never had a dog do this. Not wishing to sound ott but my shoulder/neck are really painful this morning after her lunging. She's better on a headcollar, but its a shame I have to put it on her as she walks to heal beautifully! In the ring her startline wait has gone out the window and she's not looking where I'm pointing. I'll put a posting in the Agility board about it later today.

Will have a look at the gundog sites and clicker books as suggested as I think this will really help - much more controlled and much calmer work.

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

H x

[curli]

JohnW - Thank you for your posting. I've been doing agility training since I was 11 (so for 12yrs now  !!). Rox has been doing it for over a year (she's nearly 2yrs old) What irritates me is Roxy has soooo much potential! She won her class at her first show and went on to have other high placings, however recently I really don't know whats happend! Shes lunging at other dogs in the queue, barking at the competing dogs etc - I've never had a dog do this. Not wishing to sound ott but my shoulder/neck are really painful this morning after her lunging. She's better on a headcollar, but its a shame I have to put it on her as she walks to heal beautifully! In the ring her startline wait has gone out the window and she's not looking where I'm pointing. I'll put a posting in the Agility board about it later today.

Hi
Although my cocker isn't old enough to do agility yet I have had a couple of similar problems with my Parson, Chip. He will lunge at bark at other dogs whilst he is queuing so if there is room I will briefly explain my problem to the person behind me and just say I am taking a few steps away from the queue.  usually they are fine and don't mind at all. Then I do hand touches, sits and spins left and right to keep Chips attention on me. If it's a long queue I will crouch down or sit on the floor with him.  In his case I think he gets stressed in the queue and barking and lunging is his way of dealing with it - could that be the same case for Roxy?

I think 2 years old is still very young. There are dogs that come out and are fantastic from the start but not all. I very nearly gave up with Chip when he was about 3 and thought he would never get round a course without looking at the judge or just going a bit vague on me, but by the time he was about 3 1/2 it suddenly all clicked and he is now Grade 7.

As regards the start line waits most judges will let you put a dog back on the line once and continue on the round so that might be worth a try - maybe a couple of times will make her think a little bit and if she breaks a second time you have to be prepared to leave the ring.

[Freckle]

Hi Holy,

Do you ever video her runs?

As thinking about watching her this weekend I think she is nervous of the dogs and keeps looking around at the dogs behind her?  Has anything gone for her recently as I know she did go like a rocket before and didnt worry about anything other than a great time.

If you can video her then you may pin point what is worrying / upsetting her.

not that I should help you as you will fly past us as soon as she is sorted 

Always willing to try and help gee her up in the line up with you if any help.

Jane

[hollyd443]

Hi Holy,

Do you ever video her runs?

As thinking about watching her this weekend I think she is nervous of the dogs and keeps looking around at the dogs behind her?  Has anything gone for her recently as I know she did go like a rocket before and didnt worry about anything other than a great time.

If you can video her then you may pin point what is worrying / upsetting her.

not that I should help you as you will fly past us as soon as she is sorted 

Always willing to try and help gee her up in the line up with you if any help.

Jane

Hi Jane,

Thank you for your message but I think you must be referring to our little scardy cat Rio! She is the opposite of Roxy and is sooooo nervous bless her. She and Roxy had to large dogs have a go at them on a walk months ago and they're still weary With Rio I'm going to take your advice and do some UKA shows and take her ball in with her. I think we'll get there very soon with her Just got to sort Roxy's naughtyness - they're like chalk and cheese these to!!

Thanks again for the help Jane If you could PM me with any UKA shows you're going to I'll see if we can get in to do them also

H x

[Freckle]

  

blame you for having two similar names of Roxy and Rio  ph34

Will let you know any UK ones.  I usually do the ones over the winter.  But booked to do the week long show in August at Tewkesbury so far.