Can Show cockers do gundog work?

[lindseyp]

I just wanted to ask if anyone had advice, information or opinions on 'show cocker's' doing gundog work?

Livie has no 'working' lines that I'm aware of (5 generation pedigree doesn't show any but don't know further back than that) but she is at her happiest hunting out & finding rabbit warrens in woods & undergrowth. We've had a go at showing & although she did OK, in my oppinion, she wasn't happy......I don't think standing about looking pretty is for her!!    . I've made enquiries about agility, which is a possibility but I came across gundog training on the net & this got me wondering. Livie seems to meet the criteria asked but the nearest classes are an hour away and are quite pricey. They do a 1hr introduction lesson to meet the trainer & see how they get on but I just wondered if anyone has advice or experience that would help me...........I think it would be excellent for both of us, just don't want it to be a waste of time/money.

(also, if Liv did work, would she 'become a working cocker' or just be a show cocker who works?..........sorry if that's a daft question, makes me sound dim doesn't it       )

Livie lou at her happiest 
[imgimg]

[Nicola]

Yes they can with the right training, there's no reason why show Cockers can't do gundog training. I've never seen one actually on a shoot and never met one with quite the same drive and stamina as a 'working' working Cocker but I do know a few who enjoy the training. She wouldn't be a working Cocker even if she did go on shoots though, she'd be a show Cocker who works - 'working' and 'show' describes the actual strain and breeding of the dog, not just the 'job' it does. You may find if you do a lot of training or if you work a show type Cocker that you may need to clip or at least trim back their coat a bit as the feathering would probably get very tangled and caught up in the undergrowth. I think Karen (Bluegirl) has done some gundog training with her show Cockers... good luck if you do go for it!

[lindseyp]

Thanks Nicola. I think I'm going to go for the 1 hour lesson to see what it entails & if Livie & I could/would enjoy it.
From reading other threads though, some owners have had problems with the trainers & not got on well with them......so
is there anything I should look out for & what makes the difference between a good & a bad gundog trainer (apart from the obvious!!  )
Lindsey x

[Nicola]

Everyone has their own methods but generally I'd be looking for someone who knows what they're doing and is proven as a good trainer, they don't have to be a champion trialler but I wouldn't want to be trained by someone who didn't have actual working experience. They should have a good relationship with their own dogs - that the dogs don't cow away from them and look happy and keen to work, and being able to communicate with people is also important as it's as much about training you as the dog.

[sueneil]

There are quite a few show folk who also do some work to the gun; engage in scurries and the like. If you can make it to the Cocker Club Championship Show later in July you could be introduced to some of them.

[Karma]

lindseyp - where are you thinking of going to?? PM me if you don't want to say publicly.

Generally I would agree with what Nicola says, but I know there is one training school near here that does gundog training - I don't know that they necessarily work dogs, but are a very good training school and would certainly be a good place to start an interest from (and I have to say the 1 hour 1:1 before a course sounds a little familiar!).

[lindseyp]

There are quite a few show folk who also do some work to the gun; engage in scurries and the like. If you can make it to the Cocker Club Championship Show later in July you could be introduced to some of them.

Thanks Sue.......do you have the dates & venue for the show in July? (& which days would be best to go..... if the show workers are only there on specific days? )

lindseyp - where are you thinking of going to?? PM me if you don't want to say publicly.

Generally I would agree with what Nicola says, but I know there is one training school near here that does gundog training - I don't know that they necessarily work dogs, but are a very good training school and would certainly be a good place to start an interest from (and I have to say the 1 hour 1:1 before a course sounds a little familiar!).

It's OK Karma, I don't mind saying ,
The ones nearest to me are run by The Gundog Club and are at Alton nr Southampton or Salisbury. Are these the ones you know of & have you heard if they are any good or not. As I said, it is a fair amount to pay for the course & travelling cost but I don't mind if it's the right one & we get the correct tuition! 

[Coco]

I say go for it and see what it's all about. My only warning will be that you need to be able to be 'strict' with your dog. Also if she were to get into it I suspect she would struggle if she had a full show coat and a short crop would be best thus I suppose ending any showing chances.

[Karma]

They're not the ones I know of - but Livercake would be a very good bet on knowing whether the Salisbury one is a decent one! 

[lindseyp]

Everyone has their own methods but generally I'd be looking for someone who knows what they're doing and is proven as a good trainer, they don't have to be a champion trialler but I wouldn't want to be trained by someone who didn't have actual working experience. They should have a good relationship with their own dogs - that the dogs don't cow away from them and look happy and keen to work, and being able to communicate with people is also important as it's as much about training you as the dog.

I think I'll have to do more research so I'm armed with a bit more knowledge    but the advice about the trainers relationship with his dogs is important & something I will look out for   

My only warning will be that you need to be able to be 'strict' with your dog.

Back to school for me too then !! 

[Helen]

I've heard good things about http://www.chalkyhill.co.uk/index.php?page_id=2667 (quite like his dogs too  ) but quite expensive....

is the one nr salisbury at Alderbury?

you could also try http://www.funfordogs.co.uk/ - i know they ONLY use postive training methods (and Sue who runs it is fab)

[lindseyp]

Thanks Helen.......glad you replied as karma thought you'd be able to advise 
No, the one near Salisbury is at Quidhampton. It's called The Gun Dog club & is a national organisation. Have you heard/do you know of them.  Chalkyhill looks 'the biz' .....haven't had a detailed look at thier website yet but will do.  Lindsey 

[Helen]

Thanks Helen.......glad you replied as karma thought you'd be able to advise 
No, the one near Salisbury is at Quidhampton. It's called The Gun Dog club & is a national organisation. Have you heard/do you know of them.  Chalkyhill looks 'the biz' .....haven't had a detailed look at thier website yet but will do.  Lindsey 

yes, they follow a prescribed programme which they may post to you if you contact them 

as with with anything it's down to the individual trainers so would recommend you go along for a look-see 

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

Be aware that what you class as positive training and what the trainer does may be completly different.
Jack went to two lessons with a "positive trainer", first went fine as it was a getting to know you type thing and the second was really not for me.
Jack had been in the car for an hour,I let him out when we got there and as I was talking to the trainer Jack was pottering about no more than 8ft from me. The trainer saw this as taking the p*** and that Jack should be sat at my feet. His training method was he wanted to pop a slip lead on Jack, tell him to hup and then pull it tight everytime he attempted to move until he stayed where he was told. He expected him to sit there for about 20mins,
jack was 6mths old and I got in the car and left.
I did teach jack to sit at my feet for long period of time but did it by building the time up slowly and using his ball as a reward for him staying there.
For gundog work there definetly is certain rules your dogs have to always follow and it can be hard getting the balance right.
 

[bluegirl]

I have been to gundog training with 2 of my show cockers and they and I really enjoyed it. The trainer was very nice, I explained I had no intentions of going on shoots just wanted the training and he was fine with that, infact there were a small number of other people when I got there who also had the same idea. He did work his dog and he had a really good relationship with her. I kept mine with full coats because its quite a long job to get them up to working anyway. I'll say mine didn't have the drive the other working breeds had, especially those lovely biddable working springers but they learned to do lots of things and there were eager to learn. I started off with a free hour to see if I liked it.
Personally I'd give it a go, I thoroughly enjoyed it and the people were great.