CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: anglofrenchie on August 09, 2013, 09:55:03 PM
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...much excited! :D
I haven't got a cocker puppy yet but have been actively searching for the last week since we finally decided that we were ready to have one.
Have been thinking about getting a dog for over six months now and after a lot of breed research we set our hearts on the cocker.
Never had one before so hoping that we are making the right choice.
They just seem like lots of fun and nice family dogs.
Anyone got any tips about picking the right puppy when viewing? Are dogs or bitches better with kids? Any info is welcome.
Thanks.
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Only tip I can give is to make sure you have done your research on the breeder as well as the breed. There are too many unscrupulous breeders out there. Have a look at the tips on this site about buying a puppy and please make sure your pup is adequately health tested.
Cockers are fab dogs and providing you have the time to devote to them make wonderful companions but they are very much companion dogs and usually don't do well being left alone for long periods.
Good luck with your search! ;)
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Thanks for the tip.
I shall make sure i ask some questions to the breeder. ph34r
She did seem interested in asking about our home and family when i phoned. Hopefully that is a good sign...
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That does sound good - have a little look at Breeders section of this forum there are lots of tips there.
Are you getting a show or working cocker?
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How exciting. We have had a dog and a bitch with our kids and no difference in them being good with them. Cockers are natural family dogs and love being part of whatever is going on. My dog especially was part of the gang when the kids were small and loved nothing better than going off in the trees and bushes with them. My bitch loved cuddling up with them but it may have been more because she was a puppy when when they were 4 and 7. Sam was 4 when our first was born so he was more tuned into us for his cuddles.
I would also add make sure both parents are health tested before buying a puppy. There are hereditary conditions cockers suffer from so to avoid future heartache get one from a breeder who heath tests her breeding stock - and enjoy!
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Thanks for all the replies.
The mum is a show type (but family pet) and the dad is a working type (belongs to a friend of the family she said). Have been told this is the second litter they have had together.
Lady has mentioned puppies were vet checked shortly after birth and she says she will take them back for another check next monday. Not sure what kind of health checks that entails.
Fingers' crossed everything is ok with what she has told me.
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Having a vet check isn't at all the same as health testing for hereditary conditions.
Please can I suggest that you have a really good read through this http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=48072.msg683214#msg683214
My first thoughts on the breeder having 2 litters out of her show type bitch by a worker is that the breeding isn't being done for the good of the breed but for commercial reasons only. Responsible breeders rarely breed show/worker crosses. Although the same breed they can be very different and people usually choose one or the other based on their requirements. This is a bit of a generalisation, but show types may require less exercise and mental stimulation (although still lively and active) and have coats that require a lot of grooming, while workers usually have less coat but a high work drive and may need more exercise and more mental stimulation.
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Please read up about health checks - have a look in the Breeders section under 'How do I find a reputable breeder' . It's not that the puppies have to be checked, it's that both parents need to have been tested to make sure they don't pass on hereditary diseases to the pups. There is loads of info on here about it.
If you are getting a pup that is part working cocker please make sure you realise what you are taking on as they are very highly driven and need A LOT of exercise (in excess of one and a half hours exercise a day typically) and lots of stimulation too. I'm sure you will be aware of this if you have done your research but it's amazing how many people don't realise and then the poor dogs end up in rescue because their owners think they are destructive dogs when really they are just bored because they are not getting the exercise or stimulation that they need.
Hope you have a good feeling about the breeder and are reassured on Sunday. Very exciting ;)
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Please also have a look at this http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=40635.msg564948#msg564948
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I will make myself a cuppa and have a read at the links you provided.
From what the lady has told me i understand this... her dog (the mum) is KC registered from a healthy show line but she doesn't bother with showing as she keeps the dog as a family pet. And that she and the friend who owns the working type dad decided to let them have a litter a couple of years ago for curiosity and fun (something along these lines :embarassed:) and that the puppies born were so lovely that they agreed on getting a second litter this year.
She also said she wouldn't call herself a breeder as this will be the last litter her dog will have.
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oh dear ...backyard breeder :fear2: springs to mind.
Not sure what to think or do now. I am still hoping that the litter may well be perfectly fine and it may be... but then again i have no guarantee on anything.
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Please read the links carefully. I hate to say this, because you're so obviously looking forward to meeting the pups and keen to find the right puppy, but I would almost bet that neither the dam or sire have been health tested. I hope I'm wrong though.
If you decide this litter isn't for you after reading the links and meeting the breeder, don't be too downhearted. The right breeder and right puppy are out there somewhere but may take a while to find. Good luck :blink:
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Yes, backyard breeder does spring to mind, with good intentions possibly, but probably not a good breeder. Can I suggest you make a list of questions about the things that you consider important and take them with you on Sunday?
If you decide against this litter you can post on here asking if anybody knows of a litter or could recommend a breeder in your area. Breeders aren't allowed to advertise on here and aren't usually named in posts but if anybody has suggestions for you they can send you a PM.
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Firstly thank you for all the replies and advice.
I will go and take a look at the litter and have a proper talk with the breeder. I shall mention the health screening and see what she says.
The last thing i want is rush into getting a puppy that will not be healthy. We are not too bothered with the show vs. working lines as we are fairly active as a family and i walk/jog a lot i love running :luv: and we are prepared to train and exercise whatever dog we eventually get. We have a small wood leading down a shore just down the road and i can't wait to take a dog there :D
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I have to admit that if it were me I would be inclined to walk away from these pups. It doesnt really sound like they took their dogs' welfare very seriously.
If, after talking to this breeder, you decide these are not the pups for you, then take a look at the champdogs website to see if there is a reputable breeder near you. It may be that you may have to wait a little longer for your little one but it may be better to take time to decide whether show or working is more suited to your lifestyle. Plus you will have expert support from your breeder and the knowledge that you know the lineage of your pup.
http://www.champdogs.co.uk/
Best of luck with your search. I'm sure we will all be drooling over your puppy pics in no time. :D
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Go and see the pups but be prepared to walk away. It can be really hard to do this if you see them. I was tempted many years ago when we went to visit my parents and sister who were staying on a farm for a holiday. There was a litter of cocker pups which were lovely but bitch not a good specimen of the breed and I wasn't impressed with how they were kept. I had my mum and sister egging me on but hardened my heart, despite one little cocker pup deciding she wanted to be my dog :016:
A year later I got Rosie after doing loads of research. We had to go on a 280 mile round trip to get her but so worth it. She is nearly 15 1/2 now.
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Absolutely caution is the word!
I recall a few years ago when my sister in law bought a schnauzer puppy from a 'suspicious breeder' (really seemed like a puppy farm since they were several breeds and litters on the site and the mum was not seen as she was unwell) and the puppy was constantly ill with diarrhoea. Not fun for the poor pup or my sister in law.
However i am still going to go as the litter could be fine after all. And a face to face chat will inform me a lot better than a 5 minutes phone call. Bu if i have any doubt concerning the mum or the way the pups have been raised so far i will walk away.
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Absolutely caution is the word!
I recall a few years ago when my sister in law bought a schnauzer puppy from a 'suspicious breeder' (really seemed like a puppy farm since they were several breeds and litters on the site and the mum was not seen as she was unwell) and the puppy was constantly ill with diarrhoea. Not fun for the poor pup or my sister in law.
However i am still going to go as the litter could be fine after all. And a face to face chat will inform me a lot better than a 5 minutes phone call. Bu if i have any doubt concerning the mum or the way the pups have been raised so far i will walk away.
Just be aware that walking away from a litter of tiny pups can be very hard. To be honest, if I heard 'breeding for curiosity/fun' I would have put the phone down on the 'breeder' there and then. That together with them being worker/show crosses (as I'd done my research and knew I wanted show) and no sign of the breeder mentioning anything about PRA/FN, I would already be back on the hunt for a reputable breeder.
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Just be aware that walking away from a litter of tiny pups can be very hard. To be honest, if I heard 'breeding for curiosity/fun' I would have put the phone down on the 'breeder' there and then. That together with them being worker/show crosses (as I'd done my research and knew I wanted show) and no sign of the breeder mentioning anything about PRA/FN, I would already be back on the hunt for a reputable breeder.
Agree with this. Finding the right puppy from a responsible breeder may take longer, but remember you will have your dog for 12-14 years. The initial wait will be worth it. Also, responsible breeders will offer ongoing support and advice and will usually take dogs back that they have bred should owner circumstances change. Many puppy buyers also assume that just because mum and litter are raised in the house that this automatically suggests responsible breeding. There are a plethora of other aspects to careful breeding - of which housing them indoors is possibly the most basic. I'd suggest going to see a number of breeders - that way you'll be able to compare the way things are done and learn about the breed and the two types. Good luck whatever you decide.
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Once you see them it will be really hard to walk away cos they will be cute as ninepence that's for sure. But there are so many pups out there. Also you will be tempted because you may think that you will be able to look after the pup better than anyone else and give him/her a good life but honestly if there are helath problems in the parent it will bring heartache for you down the line. Best of luck with your search though. What area of the country are you in if you don't mind my asking?
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This breeder is careless, she is breeding dogs that are at risk of being unsuitable for pet homes, she relies on people who don't know what to look for or don't care where they get their puppy from as caring and knowledgable owners who had researched before looking for a puppy would not go to her. She is breeding for convenience and has put her girls and the puppies lives at risk for a bit of fun :-\.
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Hi, sorry to throw a spanner in the works and cause more debate, but how come there is a huge market for Sprockers, Cockerpoos etc etc? Are these not the same??
I agree that it is irresponsible to breed from unhealthy dogs but if they are both healthy (and health tested) how can they be deemed as irresponsible? I also thought that originally, working cockers / show cockers / springer spaniels were all the same, it is humans that have messed about with the genetics.
Just my opinion
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Can I suggest you ring the breeder and ask her for the Kennel Club registered names or numbers of the sire and dam of these puppies. If she can't or won't then run a mile, honestly.
If you get them, type that info into here:
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx
It says "mate select" but it gives details and results of any tests done.
I can't stress enough how important it is to get a pup from tested parents, not only for the pup's sake, but also yours and your family's should any problems arise in the future.
Good luck.
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Hi, sorry to throw a spanner in the works and cause more debate, but how come there is a huge market for Sprockers, Cockerpoos etc etc? Are these not the same??
I agree that it is irresponsible to breed from unhealthy dogs but if they are both healthy (and health tested) how can they be deemed as irresponsible? I also thought that originally, working cockers / show cockers / springer spaniels were all the same, it is humans that have messed about with the genetics.
Just my opinion
A lot of us heavily disagree about the market for designer dogs... People buy these because they believe (wrongly) that they are healthier than pedigrees/don't shed; or even worse - because they have a ridiculous name so I can't really see a comparison. And that's not mentioning the motives of the 'breeders'. I would only ever have a dog from a reputable breeder. It's not just about health, there are a whole load of things to consider such as temperament. My parents went out and bought a dog (half working/show) from a dodgy breeder and he developed severe behavioural problems very early on. It's just not worth the risk IMO.
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Do be careful - I bought my first cocker many years ago from a breeder in Lincolnshire. I did feel that because the puppies would be KC registered that this would be a good breeder. However the parent weren't health tested and unfortunately my lovely dog died just before her first birthday from FN (familial Nephritus). :'(
Health tested parents are a must.
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Hi
We are (I suppose were now out boy is 6 months old). I downloaded the kennel club ap which has all the tips and questions for the breeder. I found our boy through a breeder on the KC site. We were so lucky, our breeder has been amazing, we still swop photo's, I can phone her for tips. Not sure where you live, but she is on the norfolk/Suffolk border and her other cocker (not Jake's mum) is due puppies in September.
Good luck
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There is so many things that tell you if a breeder is irresponsible. Mating any dogs together, selling to anyone with the cash, having to many puppies, not testing their bitches and other things.
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The other reason to make sure they are KC reg (even if they are 'only' for pet) is to save the poor mother being used to fire out a litter every season instead of resting in between (per KC specification). Many breeders tell you both parents are KC reg so you know the pup is full pedigree but one of the most common reasons not to register a litter is because the poor bitch is being bred incessantly >: Thats the other consideration in these designer dogs like doodles and poos - because they can't register pups as KC, then its not necessary pedigree parents and also even if it is I've heard that bitches too old to register litters with KC are continued to be used to breed into old age :'(
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As a rule, would never cross a show cocker with a working cocker it is creating a mongrel cocker of two separate breeds (ongoing debate I know lol ) ... so it is about making money. It is a fun and pretty easy way to make a few hundred unless you do it right then you normally run at a loss :shades:
I would ask her for the vet she uses, as any good breeder would have no problem giving you this info along with the name and contact details of atleast 2 owners from previous litters. Then you need to contact all these and get their feedback and if possible go and visit the previous litter dogs.
A good breeder will meet with you and then quiz you left, right and centre and a really great breeder will want to visit your home and meet your family to ensure you and your home is correct for this breed and their dogs, or will have someone do this for them..... I do this for 3 of my local breeders (Great Dane, Collie, Staffie) as a free service to ensure the homes are fully vetted.
They will also NOT let you have the puppy until it is 8 weeks old minimum!
Animal Rescues will always vet you and your home before rehoming and a good breeder will also do the same although I know 98% do not sadly and this is an active thing some of us are trying to change, one litter at a time.
BUT many breeders do not really care as much and will just ask you about your home and family and what your life is like, have you come to meet the pups and them a couple of times BUT at the end of the day you must remember breeding is a BUSINESS and do not ever let any breeder tell you otherwise or else they would not do it and the animals would be free to 100% vetted homes and owners if it was all about increasing the gene pool and doing it for enjoyment/hobby only.
Health checks with a vet are just like you going to your gp for a once over, so not really a good indication... but a good start ... That's why you need the breeders vet details so you can check that the breed your purchasing has had the breed specific health checks and only the vet can tell you if the breeder your buying from has requested these. Also the vet can also tell you if the mum and dad dogs have both been checked PRIOR to being mated to ensure their health to infact mate in the first place.
Buying a new family member is one of the most important decisions you will ever make in your entire lives.... so has to be right :-)
It is better to be 100% happy if there is even an inkling of doubt walk away and a high price is not always a good indication of a good buy.
All the above said and done you will do what you want to do and will probably have a puppy from the litter and be very happy and if problems arise then there is normally a drug or operation that can sort it out, so no real worries, just in an ideal world that will never sadly exist and I just rant more than most ;)
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Remember sprockers, cockerpoos and labradoodles etc etc are just mongrels at the end of the day commonal garden mongrels been around for years but we just called them mongrels unlike now :banana:
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Hi Anglofrenchie, hope your search goes well.
Just to say, we have a show/worker x called Genie. She's basically a rescue as she trained as a Hearing Dog (completed the whole course but failed at the very end) but we're her second shot at rehoming. What I want to say is that even though we got her already trained to the nth degree, she's a show/worker x, and has a VERY high prey drive, far higher than our other dog, who is a full worker, and we still struggle with Genie's recall at times. Her recall is one of the reasons her first rehome failed, along with killing a couple of guinea pigs! So half show doesn't mean your pup will not be fully work-oriented.
I'm probably less concerned than others on here (though they're quite right) about health testing because the only dogs I have experience with are rescues, and you take pot luck with health testing there, obviously. But there's a big difference between rescue adoption fees and paying for a puppy - presumably you're paying out a lot of money? and therefore deserve to get the most healthy puppy possible. And naturally you don't want to support dodgy breeders, even if they're nice and have the best of intentions.
Good luck and keep us posted. Lord knows how you're going to walk away from those pups :005: :005: