CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: sophie.ivy on December 06, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
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I'm a bit unsure about whether I've done the right thing letting my girl off-lead on walks...
We started letting her off in locked tennis courts and secure fields to build her confidence and practice recall when she was about 12 weeks, then started taking her off-lead on walks around the park when there were no distractions at 14 weeks, now (at 18 weeks) we're letting her off lead when there are other distractions around. Her recall is really good even around other dogs and she stays in a bubble with us (I did have to grab her once when she found a cheese sandwich and suddenly became deaf, but can't say I blame her). We don't let her off when there are lots of birds or squirrels about as that seems like too big of a temptation for her!
A few people have told us this weekend, including other gundog owners, that we should be cautious about off-lead walking at this age as if she gets a scent and darts it will take a lot of work to stop her doing that again - prevention is better than cure and all that.
We were always planning to put her on lead or a long line at 6 months as she hits the difficult teenage years and comes into season, but should she be on a lead/long line now? Would be interested to hear other experiences of walking a puppy and the off lead/on lead dilemma.
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As a new dog owner (never had dogs before) I'd say that I have no idea lol! But I have been told recently by a groomer with four of her own spaniels that recall is much easier if you've let them off lead as a puppy. I felt really sad hearing that... like I've missed a golden window :huh:
I'm about to book onto some recall training with our puppy trainer who I love. I don't feel I can let Oscar loose now - he doesn't always come back in the garden and I don't feel I know how to use a long line safely (I worry his legs will tangle in it when he's running at full speed!). Birds, people and other dogs are also super tempting and he wants to greet everyone we meet on a walk.
Basically - I'm clueless so will be watching this thread with interest. I do wish we had let him off lead sooner though - it sounds like your pup is doing well and maybe a trailing long line would help her get used to it if you're going to introduce it anyway?
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I guess it may depend on what you want to do with your girl?
I don’t intend to work my 21 week girl but do want an obedient well trained dog. When I started taking her into the big wide world we had her on a flexi lead (she never got to the end which would have caused her to jerk back) and kept practicing recall and treating with high value rewards. SHe was very good at this and we took the risk and let her off and she is still recalling well. I feel it is important for her to interact with other dogs when out and about and think that is more difficult if she on a lead. I used the same method with my previous cockers and they had excellent manners with other dogs and were able to read dog language very well and knew which dogs to avoid. We went to a local beauty spot this weekend and when off lead she kept constantly checking where we were ❤️ and she met lots of different dogs and people. She came away from them when recalled and I was very proud of her.
There will be lots of people telling you their opinions and what is right and wrong but you have to make the decision of what you think is best for your dog depending of what you want to do with your girl.
If my new addition grows up to be anything like my previous dogs (who were perfect ;) ) I will be very happy
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Hugo is 18 weeks and has never been off the lead apart from puppy socialization classes, I'm pretty sure he will run off i have been lent a 10mtr extended lead and he runs full pelt until he gets to the end of the lead, the other day he somehow caught a jackdaw in the garden i have no idea how but i managed to pounce on him and get the bird of him and it flew away so at least he didn't kill it ,but when we are out on walks he seams to be obsessed with birds and squirrels so i'm pretty sure he will disappear off chasing them, most of the walks near me are all fields and woods so plenty wildlife to chase.
there is a very well respected gundog trainer near to me but he won't train them till they are 6 months old.
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Thanks guys for the replies :D
I heard that too Katrina about letting them off early as they will be nervous and want to stay close, but then I also heard that you should keep them on lead as puppies so you don't form any bad habits like running off and not listening to you so it's tricky to know what to do for the best! Our puppy class trainer did say that the best thing about having a spaniel is their lifelong enthusiasm for picking up new skills so I'm sure Oscar will do brilliantly with the recall training.
I think you're right Vixen, it's what you intend to do with the dog that should be your guide. We do plan to work her when she's older and our gundog trainer (who is also the owner of her dad :luv:) was one of the people cautioning us about too much off-lead walking so I think we should listen really and not let her off all the time. Glad to hear the off-lead recall is going well for your girl, there is something so special about seeing them running free, ears flapping in the wind, then turning and coming back to you when they hear their name.
I think we're going to get her on the long line, or flexi-lead, and keep practicing recall in the woods or farmers fields where there are more distractions and smells.
That was my main worry Dave about her chasing birds, and her prey drive being stronger than her desire to come back to us. Her recall is excellent at the moment and this morning she did come back to us when she spotted a squirrel running, BUT it was an anxious moment and don't really want to test it again. That jackdaw experience sounds very stressful - we've had a few of those moments chasing our cat round the garden trying to prize various woodland creatures from his jaws! Not fun.
I've been told that too about the gundog training starting at 6 months so we're just laying the foundations for that now. Are you planning to work Hugo? Will be nice to share some experiences and stories if so!
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no not planning on working Hugo we do a lot of walking so want to get to the stage where we can let him off and not have to worry about him coming back ,he has been really hard work and we still have a problem with him biting but hopefully when all his teeth are in he will get better.
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My little one (5 months now) is still really bad with her teeth.
Of all the dogs i have had in my life, she really is the worse for biting.
Some days I am despair but reading other owners’ comments on COL really helps me as they reassure me that things will get better.
BUT she is very good when out and about which is her salvation.
Dave w - have you read the sticky note at the top of the training section? There is an excellent article about teaching a reliable recall. I strongly recommend it.
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Well I have done everything wrong then :005: Ash has been off lead as soon as she could go out on walks :shades:
Yes at that age they stick close to you, then they get more adventurous, but I trained her on every walk (and still do) and last week even recalled her off 2 deer
Ash is very rarely out of my sight when out on a walk - I hope I have not tempted fate now :shades:
if you are using a long line or a flexible lead that you should use it on a harness and not on their collars
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Well I have done everything wrong then :005: Ash has been off lead as soon as she could go out on walks :shades:
Yes at that age they stick close to you, then they get more adventurous, but I trained her on every walk (and still do) and last week even recalled her off 2 deer
Ash is very rarely out of my sight when out on a walk - I hope I have not tempted fate now :shades:
I totally agree! We have a 16 week puppy and he has been off lead from day 1 of being walked. He never strays far from us and every walk is a training session. His recall with a whistle is absolutely brilliant now. Obviously lots of treats and praise are given at this age but I definitely think it’s the best way to train. Did the same with my now 12 year old and never had a problem with recall.
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Well I have done everything wrong then :005: Ash has been off lead as soon as she could go out on walks :shades:
Yes at that age they stick close to you, then they get more adventurous, but I trained her on every walk (and still do) and last week even recalled her off 2 deer
Ash is very rarely out of my sight when out on a walk - I hope I have not tempted fate now :shades:
if you are using a long line or a flexible lead that you should use it on a harness and not on their collars
I did it wrong also then, eze was off lead from 6mth when we got her, hardly been on a lead since (never he'd a collar on either 🙄) and no I have no worries because she doesn't go anywhere as she seems to like us too much 🙄
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Well I have done everything wrong then :005: Ash has been off lead as soon as she could go out on walks :shades:
Yes at that age they stick close to you, then they get more adventurous, but I trained her on every walk (and still do) and last week even recalled her off 2 deer
Ash is very rarely out of my sight when out on a walk - I hope I have not tempted fate now :shades:
if you are using a long line or a flexible lead that you should use it on a harness and not on their collars
I was advised by a gun dog trainer to start immediately off lead - i.e. ca. 10 weeks ( sorry about repeating, I have written this before) . We were supposed to go somewhere different everyday and I had to just walk, keep changing direction and completely ignore him (Humphrey, not the trainer! :005:). We were looking at videos last week that OH took, so funny to see the little ball of fur sticking to me like glue obviously anxious he‘d get lost if he didn‘t keep up, which was ofcourse the object of the exercise! He‘s 6 now and I can honestly say, hand on heart, that we‘ve never lost him, - his recall needed working on obviously but even while cocking a deaf ear, he‘s always remained within sight.
Didn‘t get on with the trainer long term and we changed quite early on but I took that tip with me and still think its the best bit of dog related advice I ever had!
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That's reassuring to hear!
Ash, Humphrey, Eze and your puppy Pam all sound like very good spaniels (Ash recalling from 2 deer is wonderful - must have been a proud moment :luv:)
It's quite tricky knowing what to do for the best sometimes, we asked our puppy trainer about it and she didn't agree with the gundog trainer and told us to keep on with the off-lead walking and training...! I think we're going to keep her off-lead on daily walks and use a long line in farmers fields and other areas we'll be asking her to work in one day just in case of any accidents or attempts to chase. We do practice recall on every walk and use a whistle for distracting situations (which we've been blowing in her special recall sequence before putting her food bowl down at home) and that's working well so far. Cocktail sausages help too!
She was off lead this weekend and had her first swim with a pack of 5 other dogs. Half of the pack were running quite far and the other half were sticking close, and I was happy to see her in the close group. I appreciate this may change as she gets older and starts testing her boundaries and getting more adventurous, but we felt really pleased with her.
Not related to off lead walking at all but the lady I was walking with told me about a doggy swimming pool in Uxbridge called Dipping Dogs where you can swim with your dog! Going to take Ivy over the holidays and wanted to pass it on if anyone lives that way :D
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Sounds to me as if you‘re doing fine! It obviously depends very much on where you live and how much freedom you can safely provide but generally speaking, I think they need to learn for themselves that staying close is a good idea rather than having it imposed on them!
Humphrey‘s been on lead for three months now because of a back injury and I‘m still waiting for the go ahead from the physiotherapist before I can let him off, - We shall see how he reacts when he finally gets his freedom back, I hope I won‘t be eating my words!! :shades: :005:
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Thanks Bizzylizzy :D
I do have a tendency to overthink these things sometimes and as she's happy off lead at the moment and recalling nicely then I'm going to trust her until I have a reason not to! I took some chicken out with me this morning as she's had a bit of a dodgy tummy and she stuck to me like glue :005:
I hope Humphery's back is healing nicely and he enjoys his freedom (but not too much!) when he's allowed back off.
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As mentioned before, my Maisie 5 months old is recalling really well to the whistle and interacting well with other dogs/people. I try to get her to come to me before greeting other dogs/people and I then sort of give her permission to say hello.. I am planning on using the flexilead again when she comes into season which will coincide with her going through the ‘teenage’ phase. I think we will both hate it but it may just further her bond with me ❤️. ( or rather her bond with my magic weapon, pilchard cake :005: :005:)
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spoke to my gundog trainer today and Hugo is booked in on the 3rd of January, He seemed pretty surprised that he had not been off the lead yet and suggested that i do it sooner rather than later and said that once dogs get past 7 months and have never been off the lead are really difficult to get under control, so that's it I'm going for it at the weekend
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7 month deadline dave?!
Right I'm going to join you and take the plunge! Good luck!!
I was talking to my (very experienced and amazing) dog walker who walks Oscar twice a week when I'm at work. She has let him off on a long lead and without and says he always, ALWAYS comes back and is perfect at recall.
It's not the recall bit that worries me when I think about it, it's jumping at children who he LOVES! So I'll head somewhere very quiet I think....
Great thread! Xx
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well took Hugo out today there are some large farmers fields with not much in them took the plunge and let him off he did bolt off at lightning speed my trainer said to take a squeaky toy make a noise with it and walk off in the other direction which was working ok till he saw some birds in the field and off he went chasing them he was coming back after he couldn't catch the birds but once he saw them there was no distracting him from them, one of the fields he pretty much ran right to the other side before he came back which was a bit worrying, not sure where to go from here maybe get a long line and work on his recall ?
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I think you should have got his recall nailed before letting him off. Use a long line or flexi lead with a harness. I used the recall method at the top of the training section and persevere and get a totally reliable recall. I use a whistle and my girl ( 5 months) returns like a shot. Do as Top Barks advises, at first only use the whistle when he is returning, The idea is to condition your dog so that when he hears the whistle he will instantly come back.
The first year of a puppy’s training is hard. You have to be alert and try to spot temptations before he does and call him to you and treat and keep him focussed on you until the ‘obstacle’ whether it be game/ people/joggers etc has gone past. If you are unsure if there will be birds around, keep him on a lead until his recall is 100%..
As mentioned, the first year is hard but if you put the work in, you will have a dog you are proud of and can take anywhere :luv:
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I think you should have got his recall nailed before letting him off. Use a long line or flexi lead with a harness. I used the recall method at the top of the training section and persevere and get a totally reliable recall. I use a whistle and my girl ( 5 months) returns like a shot. Do as Top Barks advises, at first only use the whistle when he is returning, The idea is to condition your dog so that when he hears the whistle he will instantly come back.
The first year of a puppy’s training is hard. You have to be alert and try to spot temptations before he does and call him to you and treat and keep him focussed on you until the ‘obstacle’ whether it be game/ people/joggers etc has gone past. If you are unsure if there will be birds around, keep him on a lead until his recall is 100%..
As mentioned, the first year is hard but if you put the work in, you will have a dog you are proud of and can take anywhere :luv:
ive read the sticky and ordered a whistle and a long line and are just waiting for them to arrive, i started panicking that i should be getting him off the lead and did what my trainer recommended which i think would have been fine if there were no birds to chase but not much chance of that were i live ,i think your right i will keep him on a lead until i get his recall sorted, i really cant trust him yet, totally my fault
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I think you should have got his recall nailed before letting him off. Use a long line or flexi lead with a harness. I used the recall method at the top of the training section and persevere and get a totally reliable recall. I use a whistle and my girl ( 5 months) returns like a shot. Do as Top Barks advises, at first only use the whistle when he is returning, The idea is to condition your dog so that when he hears the whistle he will instantly come back.
The first year of a puppy’s training is hard. You have to be alert and try to spot temptations before he does and call him to you and treat and keep him focussed on you until the ‘obstacle’ whether it be game/ people/joggers etc has gone past. If you are unsure if there will be birds around, keep him on a lead until his recall is 100%..
As mentioned, the first year is hard but if you put the work in, you will have a dog you are proud of and can take anywhere :luv:
ive read the sticky and ordered a whistle and a long line and are just waiting for them to arrive, i started panicking that i should be getting him off the lead and did what my trainer recommended which i think would have been fine if there were no birds to chase but not much chance of that were i live ,i think your right i will keep him on a lead until i get his recall sorted, i really cant trust him yet, totally my fault
Don‘t beat yourself up! ;) We‘ve all learned by doing, and made lots of mistakes on the way but this is why COL is so great because we all benefit from each other‘s ! Long lead is a good idea, - as said, I started without a lead which was great for building that bond but a long lead is very useful for giving them a sense of distance and working on a solid recall. You‘ll get there, just need lots of patience and consistency but it‘ll pay out in the long run! :D
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I bought a long lead this morning as Ivy bolted after a pigeon in the woods, she did come back (at a much less enthusiastic pace then she left!) but I can tell she's starting to get a bit more adventurous. I won't even mention what happened when I took my eyes off her for 2 seconds around a group of ladies doing outdoor yoga...
Will be going back to basics with the recall training and focus with distractions over the holidays. She does seem to be regressing slightly this week, she forgot how to 'sit' yesterday and weed in her crate for the first time in weeks. I did read you can expect a few puppy brain 'farts' at this age, or it could just be the fact we've run out of cocktail sausages?!
Katrina - I haven't let Ivy off when there's children around as she loves them too! Every child she sees she wants to greet and lick, which not every child (or parent) is so keen on her doing! That's great to hear about Oscar's recall with the dog walker :D I wonder if she walks him in a pack? The first couple of off lead walks we did, we borrowed our friend's working cocker (a very good girl) and she copied her behaviour. I wonder if you could borrow a dog, or go with a friend who has a well trained dog, for the first few off-lead walks?
I appreciate that you might not want to take my advice after the aforementioned yoga incident :005:
It is tough all this puppy training malarkey, but I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end!
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Oh please don’t keep us in suspense! DO tell us about the yoga ladies! :rofl1: :lol:
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:005: I NEED to hear more about these yoga ladies too!!!
She does walk him in a pack - she has some very well behaved sprockers with excellent recall and he just does what they do - although she says that she can now recall him independently of the others. I'm going to book a dog field near us for half an hour - it's totally fenced off so very safe from distractions. Plus, I will stay calm... which will be the real challenge in real life.... my panicked squeals are very rewarding :lol2:
But otherwise I don't know any great off lead dogs. He has a daschund friend who is a bit cheeky and Oscar just become his wing man for the walk, copying everything he shouldn't!!
I've opted for more "life skills" classes before moving to the recall class with our trainer - I've prioritised them for life with two kids and a cocker... which is very challenging at times :-\
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I don't know if I've ever heard of a dachshund who isn't cheeky :005: I do love them though! Keep threatening a long haired dachshund as our next dog, not sure the husband is on board!
I do find puppies copy behaviour so that's great he's learning from the sprockers! There's a nice secure dog field near us so I'm going to do the same and book it so we can practice recall there. Also to give us a bit of space and time to learn how to use the long line...Ivy wasn't happy about it this morning, wrapped herself and various shrubs up in it and got upset when it was touching her side (strange dog!)
Ah the yoga incident...it was chaos. She wanted to say hi to everyone in her enthusiastic, bouncy manner and licked a few faces of people in the box position. Then as her finale, she tried to nick a long band >:D
Luckily, they all laughed and she got all the cuddles she was hoping for! But I can't show my face in that field from 8-9am on dry mornings now.
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:lol2: :lol2: thanks for sharing the yoga incident :lol2:
His friend is a wire haired dachshund and totally gorgeous. I can see the appeal! Although he barks at every passing dog... so Oscar join in as if to say "yeah... what my mate said"! ph34r he never does this on his own! We had hoped the influence would go the other way :005:
We have a long line too so I'm going to do the same and practice with it... I have visions of lead free walks on the beach so need to put some work in!
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:005: :005:
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Salty was such a nightmare as a puppy that I never let him off the lead (was too anxious about everything else to even think about it, and his obedience was negligible)
Now he's 2.75 yrs I still dont - I use an 8m extendible lead that works well enough for both of us
Since I have been using this, he comes back mostly when I call, and seems to be happiest with loads of cuddles as reward
The problem is when his nose goes down and he starts zig-zagging I know there is nothing except the scent in his world.
That's what he's bred for after all
For example, on the beach the lead means that:
1. he doesnt eat twice his body weight in dead crabs etc
2. he doesnt run up to little children and jump up at them to play, even nipping lightly (still does that)
3. I can get him back to me when I want, not when he decides to come back
4. He can run around and interact with other dogs
5. He doesnt get attacked by some of the semi-feral fisherman's 'wolfs' - its not like Blighty here
6. etc
So, I think I should have let him off before, but we were all just surviving and now he and we are very happy on an 8m lead
He can thunder around the pretty big garden after those pesky birdies that keep encroaching into his airspace after all
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Sorry Lobo do Mar, I only just saw your reply!
I think that's completely understandable not letting him off early as there's so much to think about/survive in those early months. I never bothered with teaching a reliable 'off' and let Ivy jump on whatever she pleased, which was the least of my problems at the time, and and am now having to work hard on it. I sometimes wonder if she thinks her name has changed to 'GET OFF!'
I love the name Salty by the way! Perfect for a beach dog :)
The majority of the walks with Ivy are on the long line now. I let her off to play with other dogs (if it's ok with the owner) and 'go find', but wouldn't trust her recall at all in other situations now her nose has kicked in. I don't mind it to be honest as like you said, you're not worrying about the many various ways they can get themselves into trouble. I walk a 11 year old cocker who has never been let off and he's the happiest dog I've ever met so it can't be too hard on them!
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I also have a long webbing lead for the beach
Ironically, despite me being a keen sailor (my last dog always came out with me, and liked it) and hence the name, Salty wont even peek his nose out the door if its drizzling, let alone go diving into the sea. I have never tried him on the boat as its only a 22 footer and there is not enough room for his energy - and I am not at all sure he would like it.
Mind you, last weekend he did actually dip his paws into the backwash on the beach, even got his tummy a bit damp :)