CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: mmeears on August 27, 2010, 05:24:24 PM
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Hi, we have a 4 and a half month old black working cocker called Daisy and she's been here with us since she was 8 weeks old. My husband and I have both had dogs before - we said goodbye to my gorgeous 14 year old boxer Bobby just over 2 years ago - so we understand the hard work, time and patience needed to train and bring up a happy and healthy puppy. Daisy has been a fairly difficult puppy from the start due to her frenetic behaviour ie a complete inability to settle and be calm for more than 10 seconds other than when she is in her crate. She is constantly on the go, very boisterous with us and other dogs (although not aggressive as such) and has to be on a leash if not in the crate whereupon she will chew it and whatever it is attached to. She bites pretty hard (although I appreciate this is mostly play) and its often if we are not paying her any attention ie when we are eating - I've tried standing on the lead to stop her jumping up etc but she will then bite my foot, leg etc. I have followed all the advice on here in that respect and we have had a trainer come to the house to give us advice which we have followed.
We thought this was all pretty "normal" behaviour for a cocker spaniel puppy but Daisy has recently stayed with an extremely experienced dog handler/carer (she also whelps local cocker breeders' litters and has her own working cocker bitch) while we were away on holiday. She is a friend of the breeder from whom we got Daisy and she also knows the owners of the stud dog, Daisy's father. Her first words to my husband when he picked Daisy up were that she wasn't sorry to see Daisy go. She basically said Daisy was bonkers/a bit mad and very very difficult. She had another puppy from Daisy's breeder and that puppy was what she would expect from a cocker puppy - full of fun but much calmer than Daisy; Daisy was 1000 miles an hour all the time. She even contacted the stud dog owners, who are very successful gundog trainers and breeders, to ask for some guidance. They said for us to contact them on our return which we have done and are awaiting their return call. However I dont know where to go from here. Maybe Daisy would be happier working rather than being a family pet?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We dont want an adult dog that is unmanageable, particularly as we have young children, but is there another option? I'm so very upset at the thought of her not staying with us but I dont know if I can cope with this for the whole of Daisy's life :'(. Thanks so much for any help anyone can give.
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I also wanted to just mention that prior to buying Daisy we did lots of research into the issue of whether a working cocker would be right as a family pet and were reassured by the owner of Daisy's sire that their puppies were often taken in as family pets as they are such a loving and affectionate breed with a great temperament. Exercise isn't an issue as Daisy gets the right amount of exercise for her age and I can see from this forum that many of you have working cockers as family pets. I just didnt want anyone thinking we had jumped into the frying pan before testing how hot it was!!
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As she is a working cocker, not a show cocker, her behaviour is not at all abnormal, and definitely within the range of what is to be expected from a working cocker puppy.
How much exercise and training/mental stimulation does she have each day? How much socialisation is she getting, and does she have some off-lead time every day?
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I really don't have any advice as I have Show type Cockers but for the lady who is used to working Cockers to say what she did maybe she is a little much for a family 'pet'? I don't say this lightly as I would hate to be in your position, maybe try the Gun dog breeder again and await his response and go from there, but from your post it sounds like you have tried all that has been suggested and she is still a handfull. I hope somebody will come along soon with some practical and sensible advise for you, I am not sure I agree that that amount of hyperactivity is what is to be expected to be honest but as I say I am not exerienced in owning a Worker.
Good luck and I really hope it all works out for you ;)
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It sounds like your pup has a very high working drive... it sounds like you are willing to put in the effort, so I'll go straight to a few things which might help.
1. You say in your post that she is happy in her crate. Use this to your advantage - pop her in there when you are eating or at other times when it is impossible to give her attention, so she doesn't resort to attention seeking behaviour.
2. Mental stimulation - this is more important than physical exercise for a working cocker. Have you tried clicker training? This is really great for making dogs use their brains... this is a good site for some info and guidance on clicker training - http://www.clickersolutions.com/ (http://www.clickersolutions.com/) - there's some great articles on there which explain the theory behind clicker training, and go through training the basics...
Other things are treat balls, kongs etc - even kibble in a plastic bottle (with the lid off) - these will all provide mental stimulation.
3. Food - what are you feeding her? What treats does she have? Personally I would stop giving her meals and use all of her food allowance at the minute to reinforce the behaviour you do want... this includes calm behaviour (which a lot of puppy owners forget to reinforce!) - so any time she lies down, praise her calmly and give her a peice of kibble. Reward good focus on you.
I'm sure there's other things that can help - probably looking more at some of the specific problems, but this might give you a starting point!
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Some working Cockers are very high-drive, they can be extremely energetic and full on - as really they should be, although if channelled correctly they should not be overly 'manic'. Daisy is still very young but what training do you do with her and how much exercise does she get? At her age exercise needs to be limited but you can still do plenty of training and brain work with her to keep her mind occupied. Have you tried clicker training? Do your children interact with her a lot? A busy household with young kids etc. can be quite overstimulating and some working Cockers are just not very well suited to this kind of lifestyle. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case with Daisy, just stating something that I've seen in my experience. Imo these dogs need a job to do, if you weren't going to work Daisy were you planning to do any other kind of dog sport or activities with her? Dogs can 'calm down' with maturity but a high-drive working Cocker is a high-drive working Cocker and if anything that is likely to intensify as they go into adolescence. It's entirely possible to channel that drive and use it constructively though, but it does take a lot of time and training.
When you say she's on a leash when she's not in her crate and she chews what it's attached to do you mean that you have her tied up? What food is she on just now?
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Lots of points there to respond to so probably best to do it by reference to Karma's post.
1. Yes we have been using her crate as much as possible as I know she is happy and content in there. The trainer who came to the house recommended that when we were in the sitting room (her crate is in the kitchen) and we were sat that to prevent her from jumping up we should attach her lead to the chair leg so she was prevented from doing so and to then praise her when she was sat which we did. She said to set her up to succeed and not to fail so to try and anticipate and avoid the behaviour you dont want. The thing is she then chewed the lead and then the chair leg and as soon as we let her off she jumped up at us, biting etc. If I had the lead on the floor and put my foot on it she would bite my leg.
2. Daisy attended puppy training classes and we were given a clicker which we have been using since together with treats and affection. In fact my 1 year olds first words were "good girl"!! I probably spend on average about an hour over the course of the day, ie 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there, training her - her basic commands are excellent - sit, stay, lie down, off etc. I will have a look at that website tho for extra tips. She also has a kong which we fill with squeezy cheese and kibble and lots of other chews and toys. She also has a cube which contains treats and she must roll the cube around to get them out. In terms of physical exercise she runs around in the garden with my daughter 2 or 3 times a day playing fetch etc usually for around 10/15 minutes each time. We also go out of the house once a day and meet up with lots of other doggies so she can run around off the lead, usually for about 30/60 minutes. She is fantastic with the other dogs and hugely enjoys playing with them but most of the other dog owners are amazed at her energy levels! We were planning to do some sort of agility or flyball classes with her when she was older to provide mental and physical stimulation.
3. She was being fed Arden Grange puppy food which the breeder was giving her and we have slowly introduced James Wellbeloved food which was recommended by the trainer at the puppy classes. I take the food out of her allowance to use as treats as I am very conscious not to overfeed her. The thing is as soon as we praise the calm behaviour she immediately jumps up at us and then runs around so we have to ignore her until she is calm again and try praise again but it can end up going on for 10 minutes and all it seems to do is wear us out and wind her up!
I think I have covered most questions there! Apologies if not. I do want to say though that we, as a family, absolutely love her to pieces and would be devastated to see her leave but if she is ultimately not going to fit in with us and would be happier working then I think its better to know that now rather than in 6 months time. As I said in my earlier post I had a Boxer for 14 years from being 8 weeks old so I know how much exercise and stimulation dogs need and how active and boisterous they can be but Daisy never lays down in her bed for a minute and I am worn out by it. We wanted a pet who would fit into our loving and active family life not us fitting into hers and this is why we spoke to the sire's owner before we even considered seeing the litter. If this is "normal" behaviour and she will calm down as she gets through the puppy phase then at least there will be light at the end of the tunnel! :blink:
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The trainer who came to the house recommended that when we were in the sitting room (her crate is in the kitchen) and we were sat that to prevent her from jumping up we should attach her lead to the chair leg so she was prevented from doing so and to then praise her when she was sat which we did. She said to set her up to succeed and not to fail so to try and anticipate and avoid the behaviour you dont want. The thing is she then chewed the lead and then the chair leg and as soon as we let her off she jumped up at us, biting etc. If I had the lead on the floor and put my foot on it she would bite my leg.
I am not a trainer or any kind of dog expert, but I find that advice curious. With our pup (also very prone to jumping up), to curb his jumping up at the furniture we've taught him "away" and "bed", initially rewarded with a click and a treat, now just an occasional treat. For jumping up at us, we've taught him "down", and then to sit, and lay down, and then rewarded him with a treat, and nowadays a fuss (and an occasional treat to reinforce it). No member of the family ever fusses him when he jumps up, and any visitors are also asked to ignore him if he jumps up, and he is gradually improving.
In terms of physical exercise she runs around in the garden with my daughter 2 or 3 times a day playing fetch etc usually for around 10/15 minutes each time. We also go out of the house once a day and meet up with lots of other doggies so she can run around off the lead, usually for about 30/60 minutes.
I would say that she may well benefit from another "formal" walk or two out of the house on the lead, rather than just relying on the running around outside with your daughter, especially as that kind of exercise likely involves a lot of "getting excited" high-energy stuff. How old is your daughter? When Daisy is with her, does she keep strictly to the rules you have for Daisy (eg no jumping up)?
3. She was being fed Arden Grange puppy food which the breeder was giving her and we have slowly introduced James Wellbeloved food which was recommended by the trainer at the puppy classes.
There's nothing wrong with JWB, though I personally would have kept her on Arden Grange as the quality of the food is higher and the company more ethical. I have read some reports online of people finding their puppies/dogs going manic on JWB but have had no personal experience of this.
(My pup is 4 1/2 months old, and is a Working Cocker X Jack Russell/Patterdale, from working stock; 90% of the time when I have told people what he is, they have opened their eyes wide and said "uh oh, that should be interesting" :o ::) ph34r ;) )
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You sound like you're doing the right things with the clicker training etc. but I don't know if your last dog is the best reference for Daisy; a working Cocker, particularly a very high drive one, is a very different proposition to a Boxer - they have different drives, instincts, motivations etc. What you're describing is 'normal' behaviour for a high drive working Cocker pup, particularly one in a household where there are kids, a lot going on etc. but as I said in my previous post her drive is unlikely to diminish with age, if anything it'll be the opposite, particuarly if/when she becomes switched on to hunting when she's out and about and it's a matter of channelling and using that drive constructively.
On the exercise front, at 4 and a half months old going by the 5 minute rule that is about 20-25 minutes exercise 2-3 times per day. I think from your post that it's possible that Daisy is getting a bit too much physical exercise just now which can also contribute to overstimulating them. Several longish fetching sessions (which in themselves are quite excitement-making) and then a single long period of exercise is a lot for a 4-5 month old pup. Would it be possible for you to maybe cut down on the fetching periods and split the longer walk into 2 or 3 shorter ones of around 20 minutes each and intersperse her running around with some training and work on focussing on you?
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My daughter is almost 7 and was here when the trainer came to the house so she listened carefully to all the advice about overstimulation and over exercise and I am constantly repeating it to her! We've slowly built up the exercise/play sessions too and are mostly puppy led but I have tried to be very careful over not tiring her out and watching for signs that she is overtired. They dont normally last more than 10 mminutes at a time. Anya knows not to shout or flap her arms around and all praise is very calm and positive. To be honest Anya is pretty lazy so doesnt want to spend too long outside with her ;) Even when inside she constantly wants to play so I will usually put her into her crate quite often throughtout the day to force her to rest and have some quiet time. Through the day when Anya is at school the house is pretty quiet so she can have lots of undisturbed quiet time.
The only problem with having 2 or 3 shorter walks is that I also have a 1 year old and my husband works away through the week so the timingand fitting it in is quite tricky. She's terrible on the lead too so I have been following the advice in my puppy book and from the training class which is to stop as soon as she pulls and set off again as soon as she stops pulling. It can take 20 minutes just to walk to the end of the street ::)
I completely understand that Boxers are nothing like Cocker Spaniels - Boxers aren't like any other breed I know :005: but basically I just used her as an example of living with an active dog and appreciating the responsibilities that come with that :blink:
To be honest she hasn't had much of the JWB food as as we are still working through the massive bag which we bought from the breeder!
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I'm sorry if this sounds rude but why did you choose a working cocker puppy?
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Thank you for your Pm you have just confirmed what I suspected and TBH for reasons im not going to go into on here something that im upset about.
You own Seths sister from the same litter.
You have a extreamly driven, well bred working cocker on your hands :-\
I spoke to people that owned dogs by Seths breeder and he breeds highly driven dogs that would hunt concrete. All the dogs in your dogs pedigree are real working dogs if you know what i mean.
Seth is a non stop very clever working cocker who needs a lot of training which is what i wanted.
I plan on doing competitions with Seth and working him and hes certainaly bred for it :shades:
What i do with Seth is he gets two 15min walks a day which are mainly play with me, he also gets little bits of training throughout the day. I keep things very basic at this age, Seth doesnt know stay he knows sit, down, off etc. Seth doesnt believe in giving up and turns into a little crocodile when hes over tired but is too scared of missing something to sleep so he gets popped in his crate and made to rest.
I think there is a fine line between doing enough so that there happy and doing too much which makes them hyper.
I really dont know what to say to you TBH, I so dont want to be negative and dont want to say anything that will make you do anything rash.
Seths an out and out working cocker, I own his half sister brie (same sire) and shes also a hugely driven, clever (sometimes too clever) non stop cocker. If shes been walked and trained she settles really well in the house but if somethings going on shes right in the middle of it and although happy to rest is never,ever tired if you know what i mean. She can be really hard work.
I think that the stud dog owner has fed you a load of crap sorry, he knew the dam of this litter and knew what she was like so must of known what the pups were going to be like, in fact he was looking to have one of the pups so what does that tell you when he trials dogs.
What i can say as a positive is that all the dogs I have met from this stud dog and the dams previous pups have fantastic temperments. Seth is very similar to Brie and from the sounds of it so is your pup and Brie has the most lovely temprement i have ever known in a dog.
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From what you're saying you're a dog-savvy family and you're putting in training time etc. but unfortunately there's no way anyone can tell you what is going to happen a few months or more down the line. If it is as it sounds, and Daisy is just a high-drive dog, then she's not going to grow out of that and as she gets older and her stamina and hunt drive increase she's likely to get 'worse' if it's not channelled properly. I may be going a bit broken record with the whole 'channelling' thing but I do have some experience of living with and training working spaniels (Springers and Cockers) and I have one who could easily be termed as 'extremely high drive' so I have an idea of what Daisy is like. My own high drive dog would not be suitable as a pet, she needs to work and as she's got older this has become more pronounced. This is always the chance you take when you buy a working-bred dog as a pet, some of them take to it ok but a lot of them don't. With the right work put in they can turn out fine but that's an ongoing lifelong thing and only you can really decide if you can do that or not. From what you've said she sounds like the kind of pup I'd look for :005: but I want them to work/trial.
I've just read CCG's post and wowzers, you really have got a 'working' working-bred pup. Whoever sold you that kind of puppy as a pet is very irresponsible imo :-\
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Hi Helen, we weren't actively looking for a particular breed until we stayed at a guest house in Hawes and met a beautiful cocker spaniel who played beautifully with our daughter. We chatted to the owner and she explained she was a working cocker and it kind of went from there really. She passed our info to the sire's owner who then rang us and assured us that a working cocker made a wonderful family pet. We like to go out walking together and wanted a dog that would be happy playing in the garden with the children and running around the beach and Northumberland countryside with us. I looked on this forum first too and saw that many people owned working cockers but did not "work" them.
TBH I think I've been misled by both the sire and dam's owners and am very upset. Not sure what to do now as it doesnt sound as though Daisy is what we thought we were buying and although it breaks my heart to think about it we may have to consider asking the breeder to take her back... :embarassed:
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TBH it doesn't sound like a particularly responsible breeder to me >:(
I don't think your problems with Daisy are insurmountable but she will need a lot of work and time :luv: working cockers are wonderful dogs but one with a high working drive can be very tricky ;)
I do really feel for you, it's not an easy situation.
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TBH I think I've been misled by both the sire and dam's owners and am very upset. Not sure what to do now as it doesnt sound as though Daisy is what we thought we were buying and although it breaks my heart to think about it we may have to consider asking the breeder to take her back... :embarassed:
I agree as I contacted them wanting a "proper" working cocker who had a huge drive, was a bright spark and biddable and from what they told me and I saw I got exactly what I wanted as thats what the pups were being sold as (to me anyways I now realise they were sold as something completly different to you). Im sorry but they knew what they had and I actually had a disscussion with them about workers with this breedings suitability as pets.
I really, really am trying to be careful with what I say here
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Hi, we have a 4 and a half month old black working cocker called Daisy and she's been here with us since she was 8 weeks old. My husband and I have both had dogs before - we said goodbye to my gorgeous 14 year old boxer Bobby just over 2 years ago - so we understand the hard work, time and patience needed to train and bring up a happy and healthy puppy. Daisy has been a fairly difficult puppy from the start due to her frenetic behaviour ie a complete inability to settle and be calm for more than 10 seconds other than when she is in her crate. She is constantly on the go, very boisterous with us and other dogs (although not aggressive as such) and has to be on a leash if not in the crate whereupon she will chew it and whatever it is attached to. She bites pretty hard (although I appreciate this is mostly play) and its often if we are not paying her any attention ie when we are eating - I've tried standing on the lead to stop her jumping up etc but she will then bite my foot, leg etc. I have followed all the advice on here in that respect and we have had a trainer come to the house to give us advice which we have followed.
We thought this was all pretty "normal" behaviour for a cocker spaniel puppy but Daisy has recently stayed with an extremely experienced dog handler/carer (she also whelps local cocker breeders' litters and has her own working cocker bitch) while we were away on holiday. She is a friend of the breeder from whom we got Daisy and she also knows the owners of the stud dog, Daisy's father. Her first words to my husband when he picked Daisy up were that she wasn't sorry to see Daisy go. She basically said Daisy was bonkers/a bit mad and very very difficult. She had another puppy from Daisy's breeder and that puppy was what she would expect from a cocker puppy - full of fun but much calmer than Daisy; Daisy was 1000 miles an hour all the time. She even contacted the stud dog owners, who are very successful gundog trainers and breeders, to ask for some guidance. They said for us to contact them on our return which we have done and are awaiting their return call. However I dont know where to go from here. Maybe Daisy would be happier working rather than being a family pet?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We dont want an adult dog that is unmanageable, particularly as we have young children, but is there another option? I'm so very upset at the thought of her not staying with us but I dont know if I can cope with this for the whole of Daisy's life :'(. Thanks so much for any help anyone can give.
I notice you are not far from me, would it be OK if I could Pm you, Don't panic its not the end of the world, we have some excellent facilities and working cocker people in the our area that can help you. I am competing with 2 of my WCS all day tomorrow but if its OK I can Pm you and have a chat tomorrow teatime when I return home. However I do sympathise with you, as I presently have 2 mad working cocker pups playing tuggy with a pair of my sweaty socks they have just fished out of my dirty linen basket (the little darlings) aswell as my older gang of cocker's who are all lay on my settee's looking dissaproving at them ::). Hopefully chat tomorrow.
John.
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TBH I think I've been misled by both the sire and dam's owners and am very upset. Not sure what to do now as it doesnt sound as though Daisy is what we thought we were buying and although it breaks my heart to think about it we may have to consider asking the breeder to take her back... :embarassed:
Whilest I agree that the breeder shouldnt have told you that they make good family pets it should be your responsibility to research the breed and what you were taking on. The breeder was after all trying to make a sale. Theres no getting away from the fact that no-one forced you to buy poor Daisy.
I know Im being incredibly harsh and Im sure you'e learnt your lesson from this expereince but it still doesnt get away from the fact that you need to take responsiblity for the dog you picked
If you only have time for 2 15 min walks a day how are you going to manage when shes older? I walk mine for a total of 4 hours (min) a day. Whilest Im not suggesting you do this with a puppy it does reflect the amount of time I put into keeping my working cockers happy with training and mental stimulation. They arent an easy dog by any stretch of the imagination but with the right amount of input they are perfectly managable.
When they were pups this time would be spent training and socialising them. Even if i took them to a pub the new sights and sounds would keep them mental tired.
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TBH I think I've been misled by both the sire and dam's owners and am very upset. Not sure what to do now as it doesnt sound as though Daisy is what we thought we were buying and although it breaks my heart to think about it we may have to consider asking the breeder to take her back... :embarassed:
Whilest I agree that the breeder shouldnt have told you that they make good family pets it should be your responsibility to research the breed and what you were taking on. The breeder was after all trying to make a sale. Theres no getting away from the fact that no-one forced you to buy poor Daisy.
I know Im being incredibly harsh and Im sure you'e learnt your lesson from this expereince but it still doesnt get away from the fact that you need to take responsiblity for the dog you picked
If you only have time for 2 15 min walks a day how are you going to manage when shes older? I walk mine for a total of 4 hours (min) a day. Whilest Im not suggesting you do this with a puppy it does reflect the amount of time I put into keeping my working cockers happy with training and mental stimulation. They arent an easy dog by any stretch of the imagination but with the right amount of input they are perfectly managable.
When they were pups this time would be spent training and socialising them. Even if i took them to a pub the new sights and sounds would keep them mental tired.
Actually it was me who said my pup got two 15min walks a day and its not because thats all i have time for it because thats all he needs at the moment.
If im right your pup is 10mths old and if its out for four hours a day im surprised its hips havent fallen out of their sockets.
Yes there is a responsibility here for the puppy buyer but also on the stud dog and dams owners not to recommend something when they have been given a acurate description of the puppy buyers lifestyle they know a pup they have bred is not going to fit into.
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Going to chip in too, one of the considerations with the high drive working cockers is how easy it is to over stimulate even as adults and how much these dogs need to have a balance to their needs. The advice you have been given here has been great and it is unfortunate that you are placed in this position. Hopefully with the support you are being offered you can make an informed choice that is in the best interests of both your family and Daisy for the longer term but only you can make that decision.
I wish you all the best
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I agree with Crazy Cocker Gang that where a potential buyer describes their lifestyle to a breeder it is the breeder's responsibility to give an honest answer as to whether their pups are suitable... this situation is unfortunately why most of the longer term members will advise against working cockers in purely pet homes despite the fact that it can work well for some. Even looking at lines with honest breeders, you can never be 100% certain how much drive any individual dog will have. Then you end up with a family in a heartbreaking position like this... :'( This isn't someone who has just decided they like the idea of a worker and gone for it - they looked into it (reading all the threads on here where people sit and post that they have working cockers as pets and they can make great pets) and asked the person who should be most knowledgable about the temperament of the puppies in question AND most concerned that they went into suitable homes...
:-\
mmeears - I can see you have put a lot of work into Daisy so far - it is very unfortunate that you have been misled by the breeder. Only you and your family can know whether you are able to keep going with Daisy or whether she needs a working home, but I agree with some of the later posters that perhaps the issue is more over-stimulation than lack of stimulation.
I appreciate what you are saying about lead training - perhaps it would be useful to get a harness, so you can walk TO the park without worrying about pulling, and then concentrate on lead training on the way home (when she's less excited). You could also try to fit in 10 mins of lead training as another walk (start off in the garden so there's fewer distractions) as there is then no pressure on you to actually get anywhere (which again may reduce the anticipation of fun, and so the liklihood of pulling!).
It sounds like you have crate trained her very well, and that she will relax when there... that means she is capable of relaxing in the right circumstances. Could she have a bed (or mat) in the lounge where you could train her to relax when you are in there? Start off making it a great (but calm) place to be... sit on the floor next to her and hand feed her while she is sitting or lying on her mat... if she gets up and runs riot, just get up and walk away.
The reaction you describe to rewarding her calm behaviour, by the way, is VERY normal - this is often why people overlook it as a training area, as they are reluctant to disturb their pup who has eventually switched off for a few seconds - and any reward (and attention) is going to be exciting for them. But if you ignore their response (easier said than done while they are still biting, I know) they will learn that calm behaviour is much more rewarding...
As Helen says, the problems you are facing are not impossible to solve... but Daisy will need good consistent training for months to come. If you can do this, you will be rewarded with a devoted, very switched on little dog... but it will be hard work, and there will be times you feel like you can't cope. How you resolve this is entirely in your hands - I really don't envy you the position you are in and if I was in your shoes I would feel very let down by the breeder.
Good luck - and hope the collective advice of COLers can help! :D
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Thank you so much everyone. I've woken up feeling exhausted, sad and confused but it's so very reassuring to know that I have so many knowledgable and caring people on here who want to help and offer support and good advice :luv:.
Sarah - as a working cocker owner I can fully understand your obvious frustration with people who rush out and buy these puppies on a whim without any idea of what they are taking on. It may be that you have not read all the posts on this thread and you have confused me with one of those people. To be honest I found your comments extremely upsetting at a time when I am trying to do the right thing for my family but more importantly Daisy. It seems to me a very sad state of affairs if we cannot trust what reputable breeders tell us. Thank you for taking the time to comment.
John - Thank you so much for your message, yes you are not far at all and I'd be extremely grateful if you would PM me. Your dogs look beautiful and very happy! My only concern at this stage is whether I can give Daisy the amount of time she needs but your advice would be greatly welcomed! It seems that Daisy is a hugely driven working cocker and who thrive in a proper working home. If I can make her happy by walking her twice a day, training and play time in the garden and perhaps agility when she's older then I want to give it a go (despite my husband's concern that I may be taking on more than I had anticipated, particularly given that he is away all week and I have a 6 and 1 year old...) but if people think this is not enough for her then although it will break my heart I must do what's best for her. Again, people's views on this would be extremely helpful. :blink:
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Good morning :bigarmhug:
I too found Sarah's comments harsh (and imho a bit patronising) given the context of the thread and the fact that you did do research into the breed and hope you don't take them to heart :-\
The thing is that (as I bang on about) some working cockers are now very dilute versions of the breed, which is the domain of the predominantly 'pet home' breeders who obviously have scant care in whether the dogs are 'fit for purpose' (ie working) and therefore a lot are suitable for pet homes....but a lot are still bred for working, and working hard, and this is the difference.
Working cockers have had a huge resurgence over the last few years, probably cos they're beautiful and little and soooo happy and bright - but if you look back a few years at any gun dog magazines you'll see a lot of information about how difficult and tricky they can be even for the people working them (and that's from gun dog men who have chosen the 'easier' route of springers and labs :rofl1: ) so you're not alone ;)
Don't make any rash decisions yet - you have had a lot of emotional but good information thrown at you on this thread. You need to sit down, with your other half, and see if you feel you can work through this with Daisy.
If not, and you're not comfortable with returning the pup to the breeder, then I suggest you pm one of us mods and we can put you in touch with the right people to re-home Daisy.
On the upside you have a beautiful driven clever little working cocker - if you can harness her energy into 'good' not 'evil' you have a winner on your hands :luv: :luv:
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Thanks Helen, I feel better reading your advice :-* The thing is Daisy is an absolutely gorgeous, kind and very affectionate pup. She was laid across me on the sofa last night loving the cuddles and I went upstairs afterwards and cried my eyes out. I'd like to think my husband and I are fairly level headed and sensible people so we have already decided we are not going to rush into any decisions. My husband spoke to the sire's breeder last night and she is going to ring us back over the weekend after she has spoken her husband and we will discuss it further. I'm also going to have a chat with a couple of lovely people on here - one of whom has Daisy's brother from the same litter - and see what they think. If we can give her everything she needs then I am desperate to keep her - my worry is that as she is definitely not from a "dilute" breed and is a full on worker then we may not be enough for her. My husband is slightly concerned that I am putting Daisy first whereas he thinks we should be thinking of the children and family first :-\
Thanks again, will no doubt be many more posts to come!
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Hello mmeears, I really feel for you and through no fault of your own you have found yourself in this situation, puppys are difficult at the best of times, but we do love them. I do hope you find peace of mind whatever you decide, and remember no one else is walking you your shoes. Hope all goes well for you and you can make the right decision :luv:
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Hi, I've been following this thread and I want to add my hugs to you and your family :bigarmhug:. As mlynnf50 has said, it is hard enough dealing with a pup without the trials and tribulations you are having to deal with at present.
You sound a level headed person, and with a couple of people on here you can talk to and discuss your concerns with, hopefully things will work out for the best, for everyone (including Daisy) :luv: Good luck, Lesley :D
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O I am so sorry to hear you are having a tough time with your little cookie!!! Don't give up just yet ;) You just need to find a niche for her to make her feel more fulfilled......and less norty ;)
I agree with all the comments made about mental stimulation .......maybe you can do some research into some training exercises you could just do in your garden with her........just 10 minutes a day....I promise, it makes all the difference and doing them in the garden - well you can put your little one in the buggy and they can watch and munch on a banana or something ;)
Socks are brilliant......fill them with treats and attach to string, get her to follow the scent and then hide things in the garden, under flowerpots, behind things, and make her work for them, when her mind is spent, her body will follow.
Maybe you can think of a something you would like to teach her, what about her basic commands? can you develop on them?.....I've even had cane poles stuck in my garden and had a go a weaving with the boys and the labrador. Was a right laugh.....dug out some canes used for the plants, banged them into the ground, got a handful of treats and away they went....very surprising....even the Lab had a go and took all the canes down with her :005: :005: Hope the Gun Dog Trainer gets back to you - ours has given us loads of things to do with our lot that don't necessarily mean it will lead to working them as a gun dog, just different types of exercises to suit the breed.
It's hard work owning a dog with a high working drive and we certainly couldn't have done it without receiving proper training ourselves :o It is true that gun dog breeds do need lots of exercise but for them, it is about quality, not quantity. Walking round a field of grass is ok for when you are just giving them a 10 minute toilet break but these dogs want undergrowth and brambles to search in, even if all they find is a rotting banana :lol2:
Best of luck and chin up ;)
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
You've had loads of advice from others on your breeder and what you have in store, so as another mum with young children I'll give you my perspective :-*
Firstly, HUGE hugs from me. I have a 1 yr old daughter, a 7 yr old son a 3 yr old normal easy-ish show type and a 5yr old very big rescue Weimaraner with a strong hunt drive, from strong working parents with a good dose of hormonal huffiness and issues with other dogs just for good measure :shades:.
It's hard work but oddly, no where near as hard as my first show cocker was. He was a very very busy hyper dog with a very strong hunt drive (he'd start shaking the second he caught a wiff of any game) and endless energy, he was impossible to wear out - I can honestly say, the only time he relaxed was about midnight for the night or if he was cuddling us. He was also my first dog so I was on a learning curve with him and I'm sure made loads of mistakes... but he had the most amazing happy loving temperament, was perfect with my son and he was the dog of a lifetime for me and I'm still in pieces that 3 years ago I lost aged just six very suddenly.
Dogs like Daisy are very hardwork and they are more of a lifestyle than just a family pet.. but they really can be the most amazing family pets also.
You have an awful lot on your plate right now, particularly if your hubby is away a lot. Your children will be making your job of training/managing Daisy a lot harder than if you didn't have kids (this isn't said with anything other than fact and personal experience behind it - even managing my second 'easy' show cocker as a pup was a real pain around my then 4-5yr old son who was dog savvy) and it will also take longer for her to get the hang of things because of them. HOWEVER, although you are facing a very very difficult year or 2 until your youngest goes to nursery, when she does, that will also coincide with daisy growing out of her difficult 'teen' months and also being able to do more exercises and suddenly you will have a bit of time together where you can really cash in on the little brainbox you have and develop an amazing relationship and continue to be amazed at what you can do together :luv: :luv:
Your husband is right, you do have to put the kids first because otherwise you will end up beating yourself up and in tears that you're doing everything badly but if you can fit a structure into your routines for the next year and a half that gives Daisy some regular quality time with you focusing and learning then although not ideal, you could make it work.. For example, keep Daisy somewhere confined for periods of the day so you can play with the kids or get on with other things and she can relax and have some down time, then when your little one is sleeping do a couple of 15 min sessions with Daisy without your older child 'helping' so you can both focus and learn together.
She does only need short bursts of exercise at the moment which is in your favour but it does need structuring and you can also focus on exercising her mentally by training her to do things around the house - hide things for her to find, train her to fetch things for you etc etc...
Lots of people are offering help so chat with them and see if you can come up with a realistic routine/structure etc around your children and if you think you can manage it all... I wish you lots and lots of luck with your decision :luv:
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If im right your pup is 10mths old and if its out for four hours a day im surprised its hips havent fallen out of their sockets.
Yes there is a responsibility here for the puppy buyer but also on the stud dog and dams owners not to recommend something when they have been given a acurate description of the puppy buyers lifestyle they know a pup they have bred is not going to fit into.
Out is different to being exercised for 4 hours. Some times ill be training them. Other times we'll chill in the park. Sometimes its a trip to a friends house its a real mixed bag of activities to ensure that my dogs are well socialised as well as mentally and physically tired.
Im sorrry you fund my comments harsh. But I put a huge amout of research into my dogs. I not only researched on here but spent time with a working cocker, went on a few shoots to witness them at work and read as much info as I could lay my hands on. I simpley cant understand the over reliance that was placed on the breeders advise in this case.
I never listen to anyone selling anything. Whether than be a car, a house, or even an item of clothing and especially not something like a dog. As free thinking individuals we should be taking responsibility for our decisions and not blaming everyone else. If your taking on something as important as a dog you need to do the research.
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I just want to add something here and hope I can without it coming across in a bad way.
Forgetting the whole issue of whos wrong breeder/buyer/stud owner (Michelle you know how I feel about this ;)) and focussing on the situation as it stands at the moment.
Dasiy is not only a close relative of Brie she is also related to Nicolas Weevil, im not saying this in the sense of "we have great working cockers and other peoples are crap" because thats not true and not what I mean but Brie, Weevil, Seth and Daisy are complete out and out working dogs that are extreamly driven and very high maintenance.
I couldnt think of a pup less suited to a pet home.
This is also not a pup thats going to be happy with less or to take a back seat when needed, even as a adult the level of training, management and work will be huge.
As much as I appreciate the sentiment that Michelle will have more time when her child is at nursery Daisy is not going to wait until then and as we all know when working cockers like this are in the wrong enviroment its a recipe for disaster and by the time Michelle has more time who knows what issues Daisy will have.
I really, really dont want to come across all doom and gloom, up myself or a know it all (probably too late for that ph34r) but I do know these dogs.
Michelle you know whatever you decide and whatever you need im here :bigarmhug:
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Dasiy is not only a close relative of Brie she is also related to nicolas weevil, im not saying this in the sense of "we have great working cockers and other peoples are crap" because thats not true and not what I mean but Brie, weevil, Seth and Daisy are complete out and out working dogs that are extreamly driven and very high maintenance.
I couldnt think of a pup less suited to a pet home.
......
I really, really dont want to come across all doom and gloom, up myself or a know it all (probably too late for that ph34r) but I do know these dogs.
Michelle you know whatever you decide and whatever you need im here :bigarmhug:
It does sound alitle like your question the ability of anyone else without a working cocker from Daisys line to comments. However I know what you mean. Different lines can vary greatly and after holidaying in Scotland recently I suspect there are regional differences in the breed and how higher working drive they have.
My two have been bred for Calm steadyness and trainability. I picked the lines/breeders for that reason and in particular after watching Clovers Dad work. This a noticable move away from the high energy dogs they were once bred for. Maybe this is a Yorkshire move and otheer regions are taking the lines in different directions... Anyway that'll be a completely different thread.
Im sorry for the harsh comments I made. Im a very logical person whose obbessive over puchasing decisions and im slightly confused at those that dont do the same level as reseach as me when buy something completely life changing as a dog.
I would prob agree with your summary that this dog is going to find life difficult in a pet enviroment.
So unless Daisys going to be worked or a huge amount of time devoted to her then this may not be the home for her.
Good luck with what ever decision you reach
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Dasiy is not only a close relative of Brie she is also related to nicolas weevil, im not saying this in the sense of "we have great working cockers and other peoples are crap" because thats not true and not what I mean but Brie, weevil, Seth and Daisy are complete out and out working dogs that are extreamly driven and very high maintenance.
I couldnt think of a pup less suited to a pet home.
......
I really, really dont want to come across all doom and gloom, up myself or a know it all (probably too late for that ph34r) but I do know these dogs.
Michelle you know whatever you decide and whatever you need im here :bigarmhug:
It does sound alitle like your question the ability of anyone else without a working cocker from Daisys line to comments. However I know what you mean. Different lines can vary greatly and after holidaying in Scotland recently I suspect there are regional differences in the breed and how higher working drive they have.
My two have been bred for Calm steadyness and trainability. I picked the lines/breeders for that reason and in particular after watching Clovers Dad work. This a noticable move away from the high energy dogs they were once bred for. Maybe this is a Yorkshire move and otheer regions are taking the lines in different directions... Anyway that'll be a completely different thread.
Im sorry for the harsh comments I made. Im a very logical person whose obbessive over puchasing decisions and im slightly confused at those that dont do the same level as reseach as me when buy something completely life changing as a dog.
I would prob agree with your summary that this dog is going to find life difficult in a pet enviroment.
So unless Daisys going to be worked or a huge amount of time devoted to her then this may not be the home for her.
Good luck with what ever decision you reach
I dont at all question the ability of anyone else to comment my post was just to make sure they understood what they were commenting on. As you say there is a vast difference in what lines produce. My Jack and Brie although both working, working cockers are completley different dogs in so many ways. Jacks a real steady Eddie and he would never be described as flashy but Bries a complete out and out phenomanal, fearless hunter who does turn heads (sometimes for the right reasons and sometimes for the wrong ones :lol2:).
Both dogs have their strenghs and weaknesses and im really not saying one is better than the other but at the end of a day one of them could manage in a active pet home and the other just couldnt no matter what was done with her. If I didnt work her she would work herself.
So my post was only aimed at making people aware of the type of dog michelle and her family have.
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Have read through this thread with interest ....and a growing sense of sympathy with Michelle's dilema.
I really think I have been lucky with Katie pup - altho described as a 'worker' I think she must have been hiding behind the door when 'hunting drive' was being dished out. ::) Agreed she is more hard work than Smudge and if not given stimulation and exercise she would make up her own entertainment (such as chewing things which she should not..she only does this when bored or left too long so I know it is my fault) but while she loves to go to the woods and scuttle through the undergrowth, find muddy puddles or get me to throw her tuggy for her to catch, she certainly does not come across as needing to be constantly busy or working.
Please be assured that I do not say this out of smugness - I just think I have been most fortunate in the way things have worked out, and there is certainly a lot of difference between say Katie and Daisy, both workers but which when you see them at 6-8 weeks old (all cute and cuddly) is not always apparent.
Whatever you decide to do about Daisy I wish you the best of luck.
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I have a highly driven worker that doesn't work. She comes from working parents, and has many ftch's in her pedigree. To be perfectly honest, there is NO WAY I could have coped with her if I'd also had children. I'm not saying YOU won't be able to, but there lies the answer, only YOU know if you and your family will be able to cope and find the time to give your dog what it will definitely need. Chloe is also my first dog, so that meant double trouble, and I had no access to any trainers or classes of any description up here. She had me tearing my hair out and shedding many a tear when she was a puppy, and even now, she can send me to distraction! As we live alone, and I don't work, I've been able to dedicate alot of time to her. I do alot of clicker training (even teaching her tricks helps to keep her little mind stimulated); I get her to hunt around the house for her food (hidden in cartons); I am constantly, STILL, trying to work on keeping her calm in distracting situations; she will chase sheep given half a chance and her recall, whilst reasonably good on most occasions, goes completely out the window when she's off on a scent, be that deer, rabbit, voles....whatever. Sometimes, I feel really guilty that I can't work Chloe cos I'm convinced she would have been a fantastic working dog, had I had the opportunities to train her to do what she was bred for. I guess what I'm saying is, prepare yourself for some very, very hard work. If you have access to gundog or even obedience training then all the better. And when Daisy is old enough, agility would be brilliant for her. Lots of working cockers on here do really well at agility. I really feel for you and hope that you can make the decision that is best for you and your family. If you DO decide you are in a position to satisfy her needs, and you have the time to commit, then you'll likely as not, land up with a fantastic family pet that you'll all adore. For all the problems I've had with Chloe, I wouldn't swap her for the world. She's almost become my raison d'etre :luv:
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I think one of the 'issues' is the fact that you have jumped from a well-behaved, aged, trained to your lifestyle, Boxer to a working cocker puppy. I don't think you could get more different! I recently bought a puppy after some years of owning older, trained, calmer springer and cocker and OMG >:D You forget how difficult it is owning a puppy regardless of how it is bred. They are evil and sent to test us >:D Only you know what's best for you and your family but I know loads of working cockers. Some workers and some in family homes. It is true that in family homes, the family needs to be prepared to work harder but they use quite a few training games that I use cos I don't want my 'showgirl' to forget her roots!!
At this point I just want to add that my OH works away and we have a 10 yr old, 8 yr old, 6 yr old and 18mth old as well as 4 month old Saffy(cocker), 3 yr old Cody (working springer), and Ruby 8 yr old(cocker) and I work from home.
We have a treat ball which kibble falls out - a much loved game
We play loads of 'find it' games round the house and garden. You can involve the kids by 'hiding' them but they are easy to find as they are usually giggling!! Our lot love finding the kids.
When out walking, we hide from the dogs. Thye love to find us and it greatly improves recall.
Obedience training - total must in our house and Saffy is mentally knackered after half an hour!
Swimming for the dummy - not strenuous on the joints but works the mind and body well!
Good luck with whatever you decide!!
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Thanks Saffysmum, SkyeSue and everyone else who has contributed to this post and passed on their thoughts/advice. I think if Daisy was a "typical" working cocker (that is if there is such a thing ;)) who only needed regular and consistent mental and physical stimulation then we would knuckle down and enjoy every hard but rewarding minute of it - that is after all what attracted us to the working cocker, I definitely didn't want a cuddly teddy/lap dog. However after giving this matter huge thought it is abundantly clear to me that I cannot even begin to offer Daisy the home she so desperately needs and, more importantly, deserves. I think anyone who knows and understands working cockers and who studied Daisy's lines would completely agree with and support my decision. As I understand it, pure working dogs with Daisy's lines are quite hard to find and, whilst I appreciate that some may think I over relied on what the sire and dam's breeders told me, Daisy is not and never will be a family pet no matter what training or work I do with her now and as an adult. I am taking responsibility for my decision and I am not blaming anyone else and rest assured this is something which will cause me heartache til the end of my days :'(.
We are working with 2 working cocker experts to ensure that Daisy is placed in the right home for her and that is now my sole priority, she will be going up to stay with Nicola who will work with her and make sure she ends up in the right home. Thank you all so so much, again, for your kind and caring words. Thank goodness cockers have people like you.
Michelle x
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I have been following this thread. My thoughts go out to you and your family you have had to make a hard decision, you have listened to your head and not your heart. Big hugs to all who are involved with this. :bigarmhug:
Erica, Dylan & Jessie.
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I just want to say that michelle and her family are lovely people who are absolutley commited to doing whats best for Daisy.
They couldnt of been unluckier in thier choice of pup and have made a very selfless decision putting Daisys needs first and not there own.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: from here.
I just wanted to add that michelle and family have gone through hell the last few weeks so please give her a break and if anyone wants to critisise her or her decisions feel free to pm or direct it at me.
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I too have been following this thread and I really feel for you Michelle :bigarmhug: It is very clear that you have Daisys best interests at heart and you have given it so much thought and heartache. I think you have obviouslly come to the right decision for you, your family and of course Daisy, and no one could ever question you for that. I wish you all the best and would love to hear how Daisy gets on in the future. Lots of love to you all xxx
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Hi there
I couldnt agree more. You have made a heartbreaking and totally selfless decision.
My thoughts are with you.
xxxxx
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I was also following this and just wanted to send :bigarmhug:.
I think you've made a very brave decision and sounds like it's the right one for your family.
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My thoughts are with you too Michelle, although it doesnt seem a happy ending at the present time it will be longterm I am sure.... :D
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Big hugs from me also, I feel you have been very unfortunate and have dealt with the problems you have faced in the best, be it very painful, way for your family and for Daisy.
:bigarmhug:
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Wishing you the very best of luck...what a brave lady you are :'( :'(
(Just one comment though.....please don't ever think you cannot have a Working Dog with an extremely high drive as a pet who does love cuddles and sleeps on the sofa.....we have proved this with Finn.......BUT from 5 months until this day, we have always had the help of a Gun Dog trainer....it does make an immense difference to have someone who knows how their minds work to help you get the best out of them.....I know I would be feeling just as over whelmed without this too)
Hope your family are ok :bigarmhug:
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I have been following this thread. My thoughts go out to you and your family you have had to make a hard decision, you have listened to your head and not your heart. Big hugs to all who are involved with this. :bigarmhug:
From me too :bigarmhug:
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Another one here who has been following this thread but never felt I had anything useful to contribute to the discussion.
Michelle, you have my huge admiration and I would like to send hugs and support to you and your family. To have come to the decision you have has not been easy for you and it is clear that you have put Daisy's needs first - with the help of your Working Cocker Experts I am sure that she will end up in a home where her genetic talents will be put to good effect and she will be able to fulfil her destiny.
In the meantime I cannot begin to imagine how difficult the coming period will be for you and your family - lots of hugs coming your way, much support from so many here on COL and maybe there will be a time in the future when you will all be able to consider having another cocker in your lives.
I wish you all the very best :luv:
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We wanted a pet who would fit into our loving and active family life not us fitting into hers
Am afraid sadly that is what you may have to do - while there's always compromise with some dogs you do have to go that little bit further and you have to fit into hers a little more as well.
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I too have followed this thread but don't feel qualified to comment on working cockers & your very difficult situation. :-\
I just wanted to let you know i really feel for all of you, at what must be a heartbreaking & very brave decision. :'( :bigarmhug:
I am sure with all the help you are receiving a perfect home will be found for Daisy. :luv:
Thinking of you & Daisy. :-*
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I'm heartbroken for you and your family, but full of admiration for the fact that you have made this selfless decision for Daisy's benefit.
It's so hard to come out and say that you can't offer the right home to a pet you have bonded with... but it really is the sign of a dedicated owner, and I'm sure Daisy will find the perfect home for her. You have been really brave to post your dilemma and eventual decision on here, and I truly hope everyone reading this can see that you aren't just washing your hands of a problem but genuinely putting the needs of Daisy before the your own. I will be thinking of you and your family as you go through this difficult time.
And I'm sure the perfect dog for you is out there, just waiting for the right time to make themselves known to you....
:bigarmhug:
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I am so sorry you have had to make this difficult but brave decision, I can't even begin to imagine how hard this is for you - sending big hugs to you all :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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I'm heartbroken for you and your family, but full of admiration for the fact that you have made this selfless decision for Daisy's benefit.
It's so hard to come out and say that you can't offer the right home to a pet you have bonded with... but it really is the sign of a dedicated owner, and I'm sure Daisy will find the perfect home for her. You have been really brave to post your dilemma and eventual decision on here, and I truly hope everyone reading this can see that you aren't just washing your hands of a problem but genuinely putting the needs of Daisy before the your own. I will be thinking of you and your family as you go through this difficult time.
And I'm sure the perfect dog for you is out there, just waiting for the right time to make themselves known to you....
:bigarmhug:
Couldn't have put it better myself. Please don't beat yourself up about your decision because you have made the Right decision for yourselves and more importantly Daisy. She will be happier for it and you won't end up resenting her. I really hope that anybody unsure as to whether to buy a Show or Worker will be influenced by your thread as as far as I can see you did everything right but still ended up in this heartbreaking situation. I always say to anyone who asks the question Show or Worker, if you want a family pet go for Show, if you want a dog that you are going to work get a worker. Unfortuately there are some breeders willing to sell Workers to familys and I really don't think that they should.
All the best to you and your family at this inredibly difficult time but as I say if your story makes another family/ individual make a more suitable choice then it won't have been for nothing, Take care, Jo
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I have only just read this thread. Wow, what a heartbreak for you and your family. You sound fantastic and I wish we could have helped you to a solution which was happier for you. But I admire you so much for putting Daisy's needs before your own.
I also want to say that, in the main, you have had some wonderful help, advice and support from COLers and I just want to thank them for not jumping on any bandwagons.
I so hope that you will find the perfect home for Daisy and then the perfect pup or older dog for yourselves. I am sure the right dog would have a wonderful life with you.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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I totally agree with Karma and the rest of owners that have offered there support, Please don't beat yourself up over this problem I think you have made the correct choice for the dog even though this must be heartbreaking for you, and you have been such a responsible dog owner putting the needs of the dog before yours.
I hope in time that you find peace of mind and find that important little dog for you and your family. My love to you.x
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I'm heartbroken for you and your family, but full of admiration for the fact that you have made this selfless decision for Daisy's benefit.
It's so hard to come out and say that you can't offer the right home to a pet you have bonded with... but it really is the sign of a dedicated owner, and I'm sure Daisy will find the perfect home for her. You have been really brave to post your dilemma and eventual decision on here, and I truly hope everyone reading this can see that you aren't just washing your hands of a problem but genuinely putting the needs of Daisy before the your own. I will be thinking of you and your family as you go through this difficult time.
And I'm sure the perfect dog for you is out there, just waiting for the right time to make themselves known to you....
:bigarmhug:
Totally agree with Karma.
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Michelle, I think you've done the right, thing heartbreaking as it is.
I wish you lots of luck finding her a new owner :luv: :luv:
x
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: to you Michelle xx Such a hard decision, & heartbreaking for you and your family.
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I've been following this thread but without being able to contribute anything useful as I have show type Cockers. I just wanted to say that you've had to make an incredibly hard decision and it really sounds like you're doing what's best for Daisy.
Big hugs :bigarmhug: to you and your family at this difficult time.
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I am taking responsibility for my decision and I am not blaming anyone else and rest assured this is something which will cause me heartache til the end of my days :'(.
Please don't beat yourself up too much. It is so so sad for all of you that you have had to reach this decision, but it sounds like you have given Daisy a wonderful start in life, excellent socialisation with children, some good basic training and love and cuddles to enable her to be a warm and loving dog. If you were a puppy walker for someone like guide dogs you would have been given 10 out of 10 for what you have done for Daisy. There are a lot of pups out there that do not get such a good start in life, so you should be proud of yourself for what you have achieved. You are also giving Daisy what it sounds like she needs now, access to a knowlegable working home, again there are many people who would have not done that and perhaps ended up with an unhappy dog, she is young enough to adapt to a new home where they will be able to work with her.
I know you will all be heartbroken and miss her like crazy, but I hope you can take some comfort from what you have achived, its scary to think what could have happened to her if she had gone to a different sort of home.
:bigarmhug: to you and your family and I hope that when you are ready you find the right dog for your family as it sounds like you have so much to give for one lucky dog out there :luv:
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I am taking responsibility for my decision and I am not blaming anyone else and rest assured this is something which will cause me heartache til the end of my days :'(.
Please don't beat yourself up too much. It is so so sad for all of you that you have had to reach this decision, but it sounds like you have given Daisy a wonderful start in life, excellent socialisation with children, some good basic training and love and cuddles to enable her to be a warm and loving dog. If you were a puppy walker for someone like guide dogs you would have been given 10 out of 10 for what you have done for Daisy. There are a lot of pups out there that do not get such a good start in life, so you should be proud of yourself for what you have achieved. You are also giving Daisy what it sounds like she needs now, access to a knowlegable working home, again there are many people who would have not done that and perhaps ended up with an unhappy dog, she is young enough to adapt to a new home where they will be able to work with her.
I know you will all be heartbroken and miss her like crazy, but I hope you can take some comfort from what you have achived, its scary to think what could have happened to her if she had gone to a different sort of home.
:bigarmhug: to you and your family and I hope that when you are ready you find the right dog for your family as it sounds like you have so much to give for one lucky dog out there :luv:
I couldn't have put it better myself...I can only echo exactly what Ben's Mum said.
The right dog for you and your family will definitely come along, you can rest assured about that :luv:
You have done your very best for Daisy, and I admire you so much for being able to give her up, for HER sake. :bigarmhug: to you and your family.
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So sorry to hear that you had to make the painful decision to let Daisy go to live in another home, :bigarmhug: to you for the bravery (and heartache) that you have had to find to make this decision. I hope when hearts have healed you are able to have another dog to complete the family :luv:
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Having two show types I too didn't feel qualified to add much to your post, but I agree that you are being totally unselfish and brave in letting Daisy go to the right home. When we got our first Cocker I didn't really understand the huge difference between working and show types and had we been pointed at a breeder that had workers maybe we would have ended up with a dog that was not right for our circumstances, Be kind to yourselves, :-*
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I can only echo what everyone else has said. A heartbreaking decision but one made in the best interests of Daisy. Big :bigarmhug: to you all.
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Sounds like you reached a very difficult decision.
Please take comfort in the fact that you were very honest with yourself and did whats ultimately best for Daisy. You made a very brave selfless decision at an age when Daisys young enough to accept a new home.
Please dont let this put you off dog ownership forever. If and when your ready to try again remember the lessons you've learnt and Im sure theres a perfect dog out there for you if you want to try again
Good luck and please provide an update about Daisys new home
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I have followed this thread but I am not qualified to comment never owning a working cocker. Its good that you were given lots of great advice to help you there are some lovely helpful people on here.
I kept thinking that you could make it work with Daisy but when I read that she was related to Nicolas girl I just knew then that it wasn't to be.
You are very brave to face up to the situation and to put Daissy needs first. My heart goes out to you as this decision has not been taken lightly.
You did what you could to make it work. I hope that Daisy finds a wonderful new home.
Sending you big hugs and lots of love Sharon xx
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Michelle,
I think everything has been said, but just wanted to add my support to you too. I feel for you, this must be a very difficult time. I just wish you and your family all the best - you have made the right decision.
Rachel
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will lock this thread now as it's run it's course.