Lingually Displaced Mandibular Canines PUPPY...HELP?!!

[Smally]

Hi all,

Teddy and I visited the Vets yesterday for his 2nd set of vaccinations (Teddy is now 12 weeks). The vet has informed me that Teddy could have a condition known as Lingually Displaced Mandibular Canines and advised he has his lower canines removed ASAP.

I have read a little on this condition today. Teddy isn't experiencing any discomfort when closing his jaw fully and is eating very well.

I spoke with Teddys breeder last night and she hit the roof when she heard the Vet had recommended putting Teddy under General Anaesthetic to remove these canine teeth.

Has anyone had this issue with their puppy and what was the outcome? I have booked the surgery, on the Vets recommendation however after reading a little on this I am leaning towards cancelling this as I don't want to place Teddy in unnecessary danger by placing him under general anaesthetic at his age.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!

Smally

[dawn]

I'm afraid I don't know much about this condition.

It sounds quite worrying and if it was me I might be inclined to get a second opinion from another vet or practice... This would help you decide what's best to do.

[elaine.e]

Poor Teddy, and what a shock for you too.

I'd never heard of this until you posted, but I've just done an internet search about it to find out what I could.

One thing that struck me is you say your vet thinks Teddy could have the condition. That doesn't sound like a very definite diagnosis to me. Has your vet suggested a referral to a specialist dental vet such as the ones I'm posting a link to at the end of this post? I don't know anything about this practice, so it's not a recommendation from me, they just happened to pop up when I searched and their fact sheet about the condition is informative. From what I've read it seems like a painful condition, and one where surgery before the adult teeth come through may resolve it, or may not. What a dilemma.

You were right to tell the breeder, because the condition is thought to be due to a recessive gene. So although both parents of the litter may have normal dentition the puppies either won't, like Teddy, or will carry the condition themselves and may pass it on, so shouldn't be bred from.

Here's the link http://www.dentalvets.co.uk/index.php/referral/common-case-types/54-lingually-displaced-mandibular-canines

[MIN]

also be inclined to seek further opinion.
 I see that it a inherited condition and that if he does have it then teeth do need removing asap.

how did we survive before google 

[barnfind]

I thought this was also known as undershot jaw??

My sister had a Pointer with this and had the canine teeth removed without much further problem other than she couldn't breed from that Bitch.

[Jaysmumagain]

Ask the breeder if she is local,  can she recommend her vet.
Certainly get a second opinion.  When I first came to life here I asked several people I worked with and neighbours who there vets were.

[Smally]

Poor Teddy, and what a shock for you too.

I'd never heard of this until you posted, but I've just done an internet search about it to find out what I could.

One thing that struck me is you say your vet thinks Teddy could have the condition. That doesn't sound like a very definite diagnosis to me. Has your vet suggested a referral to a specialist dental vet such as the ones I'm posting a link to at the end of this post? I don't know anything about this practice, so it's not a recommendation from me, they just happened to pop up when I searched and their fact sheet about the condition is informative. From what I've read it seems like a painful condition, and one where surgery before the adult teeth come through may resolve it, or may not. What a dilemma.

You were right to tell the breeder, because the condition is thought to be due to a recessive gene. So although both parents of the litter may have normal dentition the puppies either won't, like Teddy, or will carry the condition themselves and may pass it on, so shouldn't be bred from.

Here's the link http://www.dentalvets.co.uk/index.php/referral/common-case-types/54-lingually-displaced-mandibular-canines

Elaine, this is exactly the website the Vet showed me in his practice. It seems to be the only website with more in depth information on this condition. However, when speaking to the breeder last night she mentioned this Dental Vets practice before I had even mentioned it, saying she has heard of his clinic telling people of this condition and getting teeth removed when its not been necessary.

It sure is a dilemma. I don't like the thought of placing Teddy under a general anaesthetic for something than may come to nothing in the end.

I think a second opinion may be best. The breeder has given me the details of her Vet so I'll call and arrange a visit.

I appreciate this is a somewhat rare/new condition so not much information is available but thanks for all your help. I must say, I find it strange that not many other Cockers have suffered with this, I'd have thought something like this, if truly genuine, would be recognised more widely.

Oh well 

[barnfind]

Having read your first post again I am a little worried that you are being swayed by the breeder. As posted before, my sister had a dog that was undershot and when this was diagnosed she immediately refunded the full cost of the pup to the new owner....without 'hitting the roof'??

Get a second opinion from another vet if that would help you but don't be concerned by GA for tooth extraction as the vet will only put them under very lightly to perform the op.

HTH

[elaine.e]

Here's another link, this time by an Australian specialist vet, that explains a number of puppy dental problems including the one that Teddy has. The Aussie vet has a different way of explaining it that is more reader friendly http://bellambivet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/dr-lizs-dental-discussion-puppies-get.html

[MIN]

poppy has undershot jaw. never has been operated on or been advised to. she is 13 years old and the only time you would know is when she drinks. She also can not lick out yogurts pots or drink from a cup (tea dregs)
just want to add that my did not have her as a pup

[JennyBee]

I'm not sure if this will be any help or not, but my girl Brodie was born with quite a severe underbite. Her teeth were misaligned and she ended up getting three front teeth removed in order to correct things. However, before this was done, my vet took X-rays (she was getting spayed at the time, so she didn't need to go under a separate anaesthetic) and sent them off to a specialist. It was only after we got his opinion that the teeth were removed.

I was warned that she may need further surgery when she got older, but she's now seven and there's no sign of that being necessary. She's been left with stunted canines, but that's it. She doesn't like picking up heavy objects, but that's really the only way that I can say it affects her.

I'd definitely ask for another opinion, as the first vet I saw said we might as well remove the teeth since she is insured . The next vet disagreed and got the X-rays sent off. Hopefully surgery isn't needed, but they do recover quite quickly from it if he does.

[Jane S]

Having read your first post again I am a little worried that you are being swayed by the breeder. As posted before, my sister had a dog that was undershot and when this was diagnosed she immediately refunded the full cost of the pup to the new owner....without 'hitting the roof'??

Get a second opinion from another vet if that would help you but don't be concerned by GA for tooth extraction as the vet will only put them under very lightly to perform the op.

HTH

An undershot jaw is not the same thing as the condition mentioned - undershot jaws are relatively common (and indeed normal in some breeds) so unless a puppy was sold specifically for breeding/showing, there would be no reason to refund immediately as most puppies with slight to moderate undershot bites don't experience any health problems at all (appeciate that it may be different in severe cases as above)

For what it's worth, as puppies' mouths and dentition can change hugely over time, I would not rush into surgery personally, especially as there is no sign of discomfort at the moment. I would wait and see what happens - I have seen puppies like this go on to have perfectly normal dentition once the adult teeth come through.

[PennyB]

I agree with Jane and wait + then if there is a problem may be seek a 2nd opinion or referral

[milliecocker]

Just to say that our working cocker had this recently. It was slightly different as she was older (about five months) but the vets were concerned about her having Lingually Displaced Mandibular Canine teeth and said she might need an operation.

The vets recommended ‘Ball Therapy’ (Verhaert L 1999 Journal of Veterinary Dentistry 16: 2, 69-75) – which basically meant her holding a heavier plastic ball in her mouth as much as possible – and see if it improved before considering surgery. We tried it (she carries stuff wherever she goes anyway!) and her teeth improved over a month or two – they are now absolutely fine.

This might not be relevant as yours is younger but thought I would share our experience.