HELP! - Terrorised by 9 week old Pup!!

[Hazel M]

We've just got a 9 week old bitch called Tess, she's settled in really quickly and the house training seems to be going well so far!  The only problem we have with her is biting! she started the puppy biting a couple of days ago but it is turning nasty now! she growls and won't respond to any method to try and get her to stop.  She's much worse with me than she is with my husband. She curls her nose up and nashes her teeth at me.

We've tried saying no, given her toys to divert her attention, removed her from the room, had 'specific play time', pretending to cry, yelping like a puppy - my husband has even tried tapping her on the nose and biting her (just gently) on her ears - but nothing seems to work.  The other day we tried putting her in her crate when she did it but everytime we got her out she would be worse!

As soon as we react, she thinks its a game and is even worse.

Any suggestions?  I'm really pulling my hair out here (-she's tried that too!) and need to get it sorted ASAP as the plan is to take her out on the road with my husband at work next week!

Am I doing something wrong or does she just dislike me?!

[Cob-Web]

This is perfectly normal for puppies - but comes as a huge shock to many people, even if you've had a puppy before, its easy to forget the puppy stage (a bit like new parents forgetting their babies first few weeks  )

There have been a lot of discussion about this on COL, with some tips on how to deal with it:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=19938.0

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=19449.0

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=18859.0

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=19114.0

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=18742.0



Edited to add: there is no quick fix; time, patience and consistancy is the key 

[crunchie]

Aah, you have every sympathy from me Pringle (8 months old today  ~) was just the same and at one stage I even felt that she hated me.  Like you we tried toy diversion, yelping (that used to make her come flying back at me even more  ) and ignoring her.  We used to find time out worked best (well for 10 minutes at least  ) And also like you she was much worse with me than my husband.  If it is any consolation they do get better.  Pringle will still get a bit rough if she is over excited and does have a funny 5 minutes each day, but is a million times better, is really cuddly, really loving and spends all day following me wherever I go    so I don't think she hates me any more and we're now best mates.

You will get loads of good advice and support on here.  At one stage I thought we had acquired some sort of devil dog, so it was really reassuring to come on here and realise she was perfectly normal and that other people had been there and got through it.  Good luck.

[DennyK]

Hazel

Easy to say I know but...don't put her in her crate, as she will associate the crate with punishment, whereas you want her to like going in and to identify it as safe and comforting - so make sure you feed her in her crate sometimes and give her nice toys to play with/chew on that she only gets when in the crate.

On the play biting, I found that the time out worked well for me, but I was also lucky in having a dog who (having read stories like yours on here) hardly bit at all.  I met a puppy a month or two ago who was like a canine piranha and finally "got it" about how bad some people have it with their pups.

Interestingly, the books I read said to put the puppy outside the door, but several posters on here have found that it's faster and more of a surprise/shock to the pup for you to yelp loudly and walk away, leaving them in the room.

Have you got the bible of puppy books, "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey?  If not -get it as it's hugely helpful (although most people on her disregard the dominance theory as being outdated).  I'd also recommend "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson - so many people on here recommend it, but I've only just got it (Paddy is 9 and a half months old now) and I REALLY wish I'd read it when he was Tess's age.

Good luck: and the final recommendation I saw on here?  Long sleeves to cover the marks, in case people think you're a drug-user!

Denise

[Annette]

It's called "Puppy Ownership" I'm afraid.

I think the key is to find one strategy that you are happy with and stick to it for some time. In only one week you have tried lots of different methods, and that will only cause confusion in your pup, and more frustration for you.

We had a strategy which had several levels. Firstly we yelped. That would cause a pause if nothing else. Then moving away so Buddy would start to think that play biting leads to the end of playtime/contact. Then we did time out.

At the beginning we would pick him up firmly, but gently and carry him to our small, safe hallway (no access to stairs etc) and as we put him down on the floor we would say "time out" very clearly and firmly. He would only be left out there for 1-2 minutes, and we would let him back in during a millisecond when he wasn't making a fuss. We would make no fuss of him then, just let him in and carry on as normal (we did NOT ignore him - it's pointless and I think it can damage the relationship with your pup). If he went straight back to biting, we put him straight out again. ALWAYS saying "Time Out" as we did so.

Eventually we got to the point where just saying those words stopped him, and we have a lovely dog in residence now!

To be honest, he still tries to greet us with his mouth someties, and we have managed to train him to go get a toy, but that doesn't come til later. And once or twice in recent weeks we have had to threaten time out, but not had to carry it out. He's now 19 months old.

Hope that helps! I know many members have been reduced to tears over this issue, but they do grow out of it, honestly. And anyway, once those needle sharp puppy teeth drop out it doesn't hurt anymore!


Oh, and I agree, never use the crate as a placve of punishment. Even the bathroom would be safe enough (so long as it's vacant!)

[Colin]

Hi Hazel and welcome to the forum.

To add to the good advice you've had already ... at puppy training I was taught to prevent puppy biting by using the "relax position"  - it's quite hard to put into words but if you scroll down the thread in the link below there's a post where I tried to explain it ...

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=16130.0

It worked perfectly for me with both of my dogs when they were nippy pups. Even though they are now both adults and way past the biting and hyper stages, I still use the relax position regularly - it's handy for  towel drying them when wet, picking out debris from their coats and also grooming bits that are difficult to reach etc.

[Claire]

Hi Hazel and welcome to the forum.

To add to the good advice you've had already ... at puppy training I was taught to prevent puppy biting by using the "relax position"  - it's quite hard to put into words but if you scroll down the thread in the link below there's a post where I tried to explain it ...

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=16130.0

It worked perfectly for me with both of my dogs when they were nippy pups. Even though they are now both adults and way past the biting and hyper stages, I still use the relax position regularly - it's handy for  towel drying them when wet, picking out debris from their coats and also grooming bits that are difficult to reach etc.

Yes I used this it was great - but I used to rock Ruby slightly and keep saying Sssssshhhhhhhhh and she would go calm.  The first few times though she tried to bite, and then squeaked like I was hurting her, before finally settling.  Before long, I would just put her in that position and she would calm down straight away.

[Hazel M]

Thanks for all your help and support - the 'time out' and 'relax position' methods sound useful so I think we'll give those a go - and stick to it!

I'll keep you updated!

Thanks again,
Hazel

[debbie321]

Ben's time out was in the kitchen with the baby gate closed so that he could still see us carrying on as normal.  The first couple of weeks were awful and I too thought I had a devil dog (I was a bit stressed to say the lease)    Just hang in there as Tess will grow out of it in time 

His time out now is in his crate - but this is in the same room as us and we do it calmly and quietly no matter how he is behaving and it hasn't put him off using it at all!  It just allows me to take a breather and he seems to appreciate the time for a nap!

[hamfam]

Biting the dog is guaranteed to escalate the biting to a new level of violence

In my opinion and limited experience the only thing that really works is to ignore the biting when ever possible(easier said than done i know) try to aviod quick movements , talk in a low pitch calming voice rather than shouting no and the dog will follow your lead and become subdued, Yelp only if the dog bites too hard and it will reduce the bite pressure (do not expect it to stop though) the dog will only stop biting when it gets bored because it cannot provoke a reaction, the greater the reaction the harder and more frienzied the biting becomes.

In essence you have to make your self less appealing to bite than the toys.

[Densil]

Hazel, I know you are being bombarded with advice, some of it conflicting, but I'm gonna put something into the pot for you to consider.

I have had dogs all my life and used this method for all of them (including a Rotty) It really works.   Prior to getting my puppy (now 9 weeks old) I did a bit of "googling" and found that my method is supported in most quarters, but one or two opinions differ.  This is an overview of my experience.

Puppies do bite and mouth.  They are learing how to use their mouth as this is their main tool.  (they don't have thumbs like us) The puppy just needs to know what is inappropriate biting.

The biting of family members is a dominance thing, the puppy trying to establish herself in the pack.  She needs to know where she stands in the heirarchy.  When she nips,  you firstly need to let her know that it hurts.  A loud and abrupt "Arrrrhh", (enough to stop herr in her tracks)  That should be reinforced by being reminded that you are higher in the pack.  Take hold of her, firmly (but not aggressively) and hold her face to face with you.  (I hook my thumbs under the armpits and use my fingers to hold the head "facing front")  Look her directly in the eye and say "no", or "stop that" or whatever short command you use.  (I use the phrase, "That's a No") She might wriggle and try to get away, but dont let her. 

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT.....Hold firmly and keep looking her in the eye until she looks away submissively.  As soon as she does, reward her with whatever praise method you are using.  Dont be afraid that you will upset her, it is the learning experience and she will respect you more and want to please you.  My puppy was  really aggressive with his biting when we brought him home.  He was the biggest and most dominant pup in the pack and was used with being in charge.  After 24 hours of continual reminders that he is no longer the top dog he has stopped nipping me.  He mouths my hands but very gently.  When you put your face to his, he looks away until he is praised, then gves me a full face bath.  He has just about worked out that the OH is above him in the pack and doesnt nip her (as much) I have a 9 yr old daughter who hasnt quite go the hang of the principle yet and he still tries to push her around.  She is getting better and it will take time.  I am confident that after a few more days the ankle attacks will be a thing of the past for the whole "pack"
I would encourage you to persevere with this one.  As I said, this has worked on all my previous dogs.  They have all been very loyal and rewarding companions and have been "obedient" without me having to use aggresision to gain dominance.  And the encouraging thing has been that whenever a child tried to "kiss" one of my dogs, the dog would turn their face away until told it was ok to "give kisses"  (particularly important with the Rotty)
 

[Cob-Web]

The biting of family members is a dominance thing, the puppy trying to establish herself in the pack. 

I had never come across this explaination for puppy biting before, Iwas always under the impression it was, as you say, a way of learning about their bodies and what they can do with them   

The dominance theory you describe was widely accepted in the dog world until a few years ago - however, there are more and more dog behaviourists and trainers who now consider that it is based on flawed research 

For an alternative view, I read The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson; it makes facinating reading, and I have yet to hear anyone say that it has not made them think seriously about the way in which they relate to their dog 

I have used dominance theory training methods with dogs I have cared for and owned in the past - but have come to consider them inappropriate, damaging and in some cases downright dangerous in the last few years    Molo has been trained using only positive training methods; and I have been delighted with the results 

[Densil]

The biting of family members is a dominance thing, the puppy trying to establish herself in the pack. 

Molo has been trained using only positive training methods; and I have been delighted with the results 

I think you have misunderstood something.  You seem to be suggesting that I am advokating using dominance alone without positive reinforcement.  I am suggesting that the dog is rewarded for not biting.  I know what you are saying about dominaance training being outdated and I would agree. My dogs do as I ask because they want to and are rewarded for good behaviour. (the reward can be as simple as the dog knowing that they have done something right)
I never actively punish for bad behaviour.  Inappropriate behaviour is corrected, followed by reward (either by praise or treat) for amended behaviour. 

[Cob-Web]

Inappropriate behaviour is corrected, followed by reward (either by praise or treat) for amended behaviour. 

I prefer to ignore; not correct, unwanted behaviour 

Hold firmly and keep looking her in the eye until she looks away submissively.  As soon as she does, reward her with whatever praise method you are using.  Dont be afraid that you will upset her, it is the learning experience and she will respect you more and want to please you.  My puppy was  really aggressive with his biting when we brought him home.  He was the biggest and most dominant pup in the pack and was used with being in charge.  After 24 hours of continual reminders that he is no longer the top dog he has stopped nipping me. 

It is this technique particularly (that I have used myself in the past) that I think can be counterproductive  I no longer believe that a dog will submit or learn to respect their owner -  their relationship with humans is different to a wild dog and the pack leader or top ranking bitch 

[Densil]

Rachel

Certain communities within our society "ignor rather than correct" the unwanted behavour of their offspring.  We are now dealing with the legacy of disrespectful and out of control youths making life a misery for all around them.  It is said time and time again that all they need is some structure, education and strong supervision.   If the authorities just "ignored" their behaviour and let them run riot there would be a public outcry. (And I suspect you would be one of the first to jump up and down)

Bad behaviour needs to be ammended not ignored, and good behavour must be rewarded.  There are people within our society who urinate and deffacate on the floor of their own homes and don't see anything wrong with it.  They don't know any different because nobody has educted them.  This is clearly inappropriate behaviour.  Would you ignor it?   When you are house training your dogs do you "ignor" them when they urinate or deffacate in the house, or do you show them what the desired behaviour should be?

Unwanted behaviour cannot be ignored.