Maisy's "play biting" is reaching new levels

[Nicola]

I am ashamed to say I did the "Alpha roll" a couple of times on one of my Dobermans. What an awful thing to do! I have never forgiven myself for that, and for other serious training mistakes I have made.

I tried to make Billy wait before I walked through a door ( to prevent him being dominant)  :005

I do this with all of mine and I'm pretty strict about it... it's absolutely nothing to do with dominance

In your case no, but a lot of people say you should do this to prevent your dog becoming dominant .

If an occasion arises where i need Billy to stay I just ask him to stay, but I don't make him wait to go through doors in the house .

Yes I know but I was just pointing out that it can be something worth doing for reasons other than dominance, just good manners.

I don't do it at all the doors in the house though or it'd take me half an hour just to get upstairs    Just the ones to outside!

[Jan/Billy]

I don't do it at all the doors in the house though or it'd take me half an hour just to get upstairs    Just the ones to outside!

I did wonder if you meant the doors inside too   I was thinking that's a bit OTT training Nic  

[Nicola]

I don't do it at all the doors in the house though or it'd take me half an hour just to get upstairs    Just the ones to outside!

I did wonder if you meant the doors inside too   I was thinking that's a bit OTT training Nic  

No, I'm not that bad   

[Jan/Billy]

Jan some dogs DO need to be brought into line and these generally are the  slightyl older more outgoing dogs such as Maisy sounds, some pups do not need to be told off in this manner as they are of a quieter nature and dont need it and yes I agree could be put off and I would never do this to a quiet dog but I am talking about  outgoing confident dogs and you CAN tell the ones that are most likely to need brought into line right from an early age. There are some dogs that do not respond to ignoring them and treats and so on and respond better to a stronger discipline. Just like kids 

didn't see this earlier  

I honestly couldn't disagree any more with this and have been quite shocked at the replies on this thread today.  Regardless of whether a puppy "appears" to be confident or not methods like this are just not right. To intimidate a puppy is wrong and unfair. Nothing reprimands a puppy like a NICE MANNERED older dog; we as humans can in no way replicate this.



I agree that it's perhaps best if you seek the help of a qualified recommended trainer who can see what's going on with Maisy and help you move forward

[PennyB]

Jan some dogs DO need to be brought into line and these generally are the  slightyl older more outgoing dogs such as Maisy sounds, some pups do not need to be told off in this manner as they are of a quieter nature and dont need it and yes I agree could be put off and I would never do this to a quiet dog but I am talking about  outgoing confident dogs and you CAN tell the ones that are most likely to need brought into line right from an early age. There are some dogs that do not respond to ignoring them and treats and so on and respond better to a stronger discipline. Just like kids 

didn't see this earlier  

I honestly couldn't disagree any more with this and have been quite shocked at the replies on this thread today.  Regardless of whether a puppy "appears" to be confident or not methods like this are just not right. To intimidate a puppy is wrong and unfair. Nothing reprimands a puppy like a NICE MANNERED older dog; we as humans can in no way replicate this.



I agree that it's perhaps best if you seek the help of a qualified recommended trainer who can see what's going on with Maisy and help you move forward

I can only agree with what Jan says here as I've seen 1st hand the damage that can happen to pups when this has been done after following this sort of advice --- Cazzie while you feel this is OK for you others may follow this advice and it could go very wrong. Some pups are hard work and often an owner has to be patient as there aren't always quick fixes. As has been said its probably best if you get advce from a qualified recommended trainer who's cocker savvy (not all understand cockers the way they should) who can see what's going on.

[*Adele*]

I am ashamed to say I did the "Alpha roll" a couple of times on one of my Dobermans. What an awful thing to do! I have never forgiven myself for that, and for other serious training mistakes I have made.

I tried to make Billy wait before I walked through a door ( to prevent him being dominant)  :005

I do this with all of mine and I'm pretty strict about it... it's absolutely nothing to do with dominance I just don't want to be barged out of the way by them charging through every time a door or gate is opened and it means that I can make sure there are no distractions/hazards present before I let them come through. Alfie and Tilly will automatically sit when we get to the front door or to a gate on a walk and they also wait when I open the boot of the car until they are told to jump out.

I can't comment on the whole biting issue as never had any problems either with Chloe or previous dogs, all of which have had obedience training from an early age. What I thought I would mention though following on from the "first out of the door" issue is that I believe that after recent changes in the KC Good Citizenship awards this now appears and you need to be able to control your dog whilst going through a gateway and need to prove that you can tell your dog to sit and stay whilst you open and go through the gate. I know this isn't an essential part of owning a dog but just thought I would mention it! 

[Cazzie]

Jan some dogs DO need to be brought into line and these generally are the  slightyl older more outgoing dogs such as Maisy sounds, some pups do not need to be told off in this manner as they are of a quieter nature and dont need it and yes I agree could be put off and I would never do this to a quiet dog but I am talking about  outgoing confident dogs and you CAN tell the ones that are most likely to need brought into line right from an early age. There are some dogs that do not respond to ignoring them and treats and so on and respond better to a stronger discipline. Just like kids 

didn't see this earlier  

I honestly couldn't disagree any more with this and have been quite shocked at the replies on this thread today.  Regardless of whether a puppy "appears" to be confident or not methods like this are just not right. To intimidate a puppy is wrong and unfair. Nothing reprimands a puppy like a NICE MANNERED older dog; we as humans can in no way replicate this.



I agree that it's perhaps best if you seek the help of a qualified recommended trainer who can see what's going on with Maisy and help you move forward

I can only agree with what Jan says here as I've seen 1st hand the damage that can happen to pups when this has been done after following this sort of advice --- Cazzie while you feel this is OK for you others may follow this advice and it could go very wrong. Some pups are hard work and often an owner has to be patient as there aren't always quick fixes. As has been said its probably best if you get advce from a qualified recommended trainer who's cocker savvy (not all understand cockers the way they should) who can see what's going on.

I have stated what I would do if it was MY dog. I am open to comment just as the others are and do advise people with problem dogs to seek Pro advice. I have had dogs all my life and could comment and post on hundreds of situations. Why is it when someone like me merely states that they discipline their dogs in a certain way they are bombarded with disagreement. You wil never see me post needing help with an aggressive dog and do you know why, its becasue they are not allowed to get away with it from day one. It takes minits to get a young pup to stop biting you but again as I said allow it to go on at you end up with a dog doing exactly as Maisy does. I am not some kind of monster that beats the living day lights out of her dogs far from it, I am firm with my dogs if they do something unaaceptable but 99.9% of the time they are spoiled rotten. My days with the dogs are filled with fun and enjoyment.

Also I dont think that anyone would take for gospel any advice 100% off a forum or at least they shouldnt. We are here to discuss not to teach.

So tell me why does Maisy bite her owner and break the skin and bruise her? Do you think this is acceptable behaviour from a young dog? 

Also what kind of damage to dogs are you talking about here? Keeping a hold of their muzzle for a few seconds or a gruff "OH" im my opinion never did a pup any harm, or are we now following a nanny state for dogs now.

[Elisa]

Also I dont think that anyone would take for gospel any advice 100% off a forum or at least they shouldnt. We are here to discuss not to teach.

I think some people would, I certainly have taken advice from here 

[Danni n Betty]

You wil never see me post needing help with an aggressive dog and do you know why, its becasue they are not allowed to get away with it from day one.

I really hope you never have to deal with an aggressive dog, as its not nice 
A lot of people do their very best with socialising, and training there pups, yet they still have aggression, it can just be a part of the dogs genetic make up.

[Cazzie]

Also I dont think that anyone would take for gospel any advice 100% off a forum or at least they shouldnt. We are here to discuss not to teach.

I think some people would, I certainly have taken advice from here 

Depends on what its about &  yes we do, ive taken advise from here also I took advice from cazza about stopping biting my nails &  from Nicola about dog food, but a dog that is biting and hurting their owner is another thing, that is a Professionlal Hands On Job  

[Jan/Billy]

I am open to comment just as the others are

Yes of course you are, we are all equaly entitled.

You wil never see me post needing help with an aggressive dog and do you know why, its becasue they are not allowed to get away with it from day one. It takes minits to get a young pup to stop biting you but again as I said allow it to go on at you end up with a dog doing exactly as Maisy does.  

If that is what you truly believe then I think you are very naive. If only it were that easy ! The only way you will teach a pup to stop biting in minutes is if you intimidate and frighten it.  I don't mean to be rude here, forgive me if it comes accross this way, but you have mentioned previously to never having gone to a training class with your dogs and never having read any training manual whatsoever about dogs, so where do you get all this from?

So tell me why does Maisy bite her owner and break the skin and bruise her? Do you think this is acceptable behaviour from a young dog?  

Becuase she is a puppy who hasn't learned yet that biting humans isn't acceptable. She needs to learn that biting results in nothing but not biting results in playtime and nice things and that being with her owner is nice and never ever nasty or scary.

[jools]

This thread is starting to wander and I am worried that it will end up being locked, which will not be very helpful for Maisey, or her mum. Let's stop getting angry at each other, attacking each other's opinions and let Beanie get the help and advice she wants......for the love of god!

[Cazzie]

Jan I was brought up surrounded by dogs, my mother has had dogs all her life and has worked with dogs. My whole life Jan is dogs. I do what works for me and will comment on what works for me. I successfully work my dogs , I train them every day, I spend 24 hours a day with dogs and work with hundreds of dogs a year. I never have a bit of bother with any dog I deal with.

I did go to one training class with daisy nearly 5 years ago and never went back but I did learn a good liver cake recipe. I do now go to the occassional gun dog training class.

[Helen]

beanie - if i were in your shoes, i would pm Top Barks (Mark)    He employs dog training methods that i would happily follow 

[Jan/Billy]

I successfully work my dogs , I train them every day, I spend 24 hours a day with dogs and work with hundreds of dogs a year. I never have a bit of bother with any dog I deal with.

I don't doubt that for a minute cazzie, I know how proud you are of your dogs, I just don't agree with your methods that's all  

I did go to one training class with daisy nearly 5 years ago and never went back but I did learn a good liver cake recipe.

  You could have got that off the internet  



Apologies for the heated reply, don't want this thread locked as like has been pointed out it won't be helpful to Maisy