Well this ain't gonna make me popular but hey ho here goes 
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If find this the most bizzare thread in a very long time on this forum 
I am actually quite shocked by some people attitudes but I am actually more sad 
I'm sad to think that some people still think it's acceptable to shout at, scruff and hold the muzzle of young pups. I don't think any of those methods are acceptable these days, I feel they are being used instead as an easier option to hours of frequent ,consistent ,kinder methods of training that are recommended.
Yes dogs do hold the muzzle of other dogs, Billy did it the other week to a dog that tried to steal his sausage. It's a skill that only dogs have. We cannot replicate mum, so why try to?
I wonder how many of you, who use these methods, have dogs who are actually quite intimidated by you? They may not show it, but it must have some effect? but you'll probably never know the answer to that.
I have made my fair share of mistakes with Billy, have never denied that, but if I could do it again with another pup, I'd never ever ever purpously do anything to my puppy that may intimidate it. I'd want it to associate only good things with me and to trust me 100% and to learn that if anything frightening or nasty ever happens it didn't come directly from me.
I read this earlier People seem to think that because they have been doing something for a long while that is the only way to do it and never take the trouble to get up to date with modern methods and/or thinking.
That's the way I feel too.
I'm bowing out of this thread now, otherwise I'll end up getting it locked.
Jan Why on earth would this thread get locked? We are all adults and we are discussing not threatning anyone. Its healthy and I would never think bad of anyone in a discussion, I thrive on them.
I spend Hours Jan on training my dogs, how do you think I can get them to work for me. I never ever hurt them, I work with them. If we dont get something right we go over it again and again. I use ex kind methods with my dogs and the main one being bond. I love my dogs dearly and we work together as a team. I do not demand my dogs do everything my way as I will work on each and everyones nature and mould to suit. What I can get Belle or Goose to do, sweepie wont do, I dont punish her I work round it in another way to get her too think she is doing what she wants.
Also my dogs are far from intimidated by me, if they were they would NEVER work for me, they would run in the opposite direction. You need a happy confident dog to be a gun dog not a shy coward frightened dog.
It has taken me nearly 3 years to get belle to the standard of dog she is at now, she was a coward frightened lamb when I got her, she is now a bold confident worker who is a dog everyone talks about
She has also gone on to win a gun dog competition, of which I never ever though she would do.
