Papers re docking

[YorkshirePudd]

I am aware that there are many opinions and views etc on this procedure and I do not want to begin yet another debate on this, just some advice please.

We pick up Winston in just under a month, he and his brothers and sisters are working type and the breeders have had them docked (legally they assure us).
He will not be working with us however, and in view of this will we have any issues with vets etc. and is there any formal paperwork that we should receive from the breeder when we collect him re the docking being legal? If anyone can advise or direct me to somewhere that will hold the answers I'd be very grateful!
 Many thanks
   x Pudd x
 

[Nicola]

Below is a pdf of a 'factsheet' which the CDB (Council for Docked Breeds) suggests that breeders of docked puppies give to new owners, it contains a lot of information    Only vets are now allowed to dock puppies and each puppy gets a certificate when it is docked to show that all the paperwork/certification etc. is in place so the breeder should give this to you with your pup.

http://www.cdb.org/awa/Tail%20Docking%20and%20the%20puppy%20you%20have%20purchased.pdf

[YorkshirePudd]

Thank you!

[angelkisses]

hi i did not read this post before bringing my puppy home july 12th , we did not receive a certificate saying it was legally docked (i did not even think about it ) , i was told both parents are working dogs , i have seen the dads web site
my vet today also told me that yes it was illegal unless the dog was going to be used as a working dog and both parents are working dogs  but i was in no way accountable for puppy's tail , , i have no intention of showing him or working him so it in no way makes him less lovable to me  even after a sleepless night 
unless you plan on showing him it shouldnt really be a problem

[YorkshirePudd]

To be fair - if one or more of a litter are expected to go into working life then the whole litter (as I understand it) can be docked legally - with the right certification.
May be worth contacting the breeder and asking where it was done and if they can forward on any papers though just for peace of mind? We had to let Winston stay with the breeders in the end - there were a number of issues with the breeder. 

[wrenside]

Hiya, I had the whole of Bella's litter docked as all of the litter are intended to be worked on shoots or trialled, but it is legal to own a docked puppy and not work it, but it is a requirement for the dam of the pups to be a working dog.
I was not given a certificate by the vet who docked our pups, as there is no official one. But I have photo copied all of the documents with the vet and our signatures on them that state the pups have been legally docked and each new owner shall be given their individual pups paper work (your pup should be microchipped and this should be shown on the paper work and signed by the vet).
The owner of the dam should keep the origional paperwork and so if anything arises with one of the docked pups legallity the new owner of the pups may need to contact the owner of the dam if the origional documentation is required.
Make sure you don't leave the breeders without a copy of the documents signed by the vets regarding docking as you may be asked to produce it to prove the legality of your pups docked tail.

I hope this clears things up a bit 

Best wishes

Mary

[cadbury]

my cockers tail is docked and from a reputable breeder I didnot get any papers I also had my own litters of springers docked by a vet all
up and above board as they were working dogs I was not given any paper work then either dont worry about it everything will be ok

[Nicola]

my cockers tail is docked and from a reputable breeder I didnot get any papers I also had my own litters of springers docked by a vet all
up and above board as they were working dogs I was not given any paper work then either dont worry about it everything will be ok

As your cocker is 19 months old though I would assume that he was docked before the ban came in this year... That is what we are referring to now as the law has changed 

[Chrissy]

Hi

I think you will find that any vet who docks a puppy or puppies from a litter after the introduction of the AWB in relation to docking should issue the breeder with a certificate for each puppy.  The wording of the certificate is shown below (& is also on the DEFRA website):

http://www.cdb.org/awa/docking_certificate.pdf

The idea is that the vet in question should reproduce the content of the above certificate on their headed notepaper.  The vet and breeder sign the first part at the time of docking and then they both sign again at the time of micro-chipping.  Once completed a copy stays with the vet and the original document (one for each docked puppy) should be handed to the breeder who will/should in turn supply the certificate to the new puppy owner.

To clarify the issue of working, the guidance notes do not say that the mother must be worked, they say that the breeder must prove a working connection with their dogs (can be any of their dogs).  The assumption is that if the breeder works or has dogs who meet the exemption to the ban then it is possible but not inevitable that one or more of the litter presented for docking (under the terms of the exemption) may be worked (as per the exemption clauses) in the future. 

The vet is required to see proof that the breeder has a working connection (full details listed on the certificate) with their dogs or dogs of their breeding; they are also required to see the Dam of the litter to ensure that she is of a breed (or cross-breed of the exempted breeds - different rules for England/Wales) as specified in the exemption. 

I would be very wary of buying any puppy docked after the enactment of the AWB (docking) unless the official DEFRA worded certificate (printed on vets headed notepaper, signed by the vet and with the vets practice stamp) is provided at the time of sale.  This document is the proof any puppy owner needs to supply to interested parties should they be questioned about the legality of their docked tailed pup.

Chrissy

[wrenside]

Hi Chrissy, ahhhh I see those forms are what is considered the docking certificate, I have for each pup those forms completed and signed and I was wondering whether the origional should be passed onto the new pup owners or if I should keep a copy. I don't know whether I'd trust a new owner to keep the origional documentation safe!  Just me being cautious  Is it okay for me to keep the origionals and give the new owners a photocopy? or do they have to have the origional?

Best wishes

Mary

[Chrissy]

Hi Mary

Yes it is a worry that the puppy owner might loose the original form, however the vets should keep a copy for their records and you can keep a copy. The puppy owner should have an original i.e. doesn't look like it could be "homemade" should they need it (after all it will be the new owner - if anyone stops them - who is asked about the validity of the docked tail).  If there is ever any dispute the vets will have a copy and will confirm that, the procedure was carried out to the letter of the law etc.

Chrissy

[wrenside]

Thanks for that Chrissy 
Right the owners get the origional and I will keep the copy.
The vet definitely has a copy for each pup and he also photocopied the shot gun certificate and letter from our shoot owner friend as the evidence of working ability.

Best wishes

Mary

[Tasha]

pups should all have been microchipped its part of the docking agreement.

We had this debate recently with out vet (who is anti docking) over a patterdale pup, dog is in a working home and will be worked but my vet insisted that what had been done was illegal.  There wasn't any paperwork handed out with the puppy because Patterdales are not a registered KC recognised breed although they are an old english breed of working terrier.  The only thing that we did get was a microchip certificate.

The vet of the breeder is very wary of providing anyone with his practise information because the Royal Veterinary Society have themselves banned the practise totally ignoring the legalities of it all... my vet decided to tell me that the whole process was illegal that there was no working exemption, lets just say I read him the letter of the law regarding giving out misinformation.

[cadbury]

my cocker's tail is docked and from a reputable breeder I didnot get any papers I also had my own litters of springers docked by a vet all
up and above board as they were working dogs I was not given any paper work then either dint worry about it everything will be OK

As your cocker is 19 months old though I would assume that he was docked before the ban came in this year... That is what we are referring to now as the law has changed 

whoops Nicola sorry was not reading thread properly will try and be more observant next time