Author Topic: Nacho v. poorly :( BUT GREAT NEWS !  (Read 12221 times)

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Offline Welsh_Wizard

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Nacho v. poorly :( BUT GREAT NEWS !
« on: November 08, 2010, 09:59:44 PM »
Hi,

Just wanted to get some general advice really on what to expect at the age my dog is right now.

He is 14 weeks old today and we picked him up when he was 12.5 weeks.

Since the day we had we have been using a crate. It is a large crate, ample room for him, and we have a really comfortable fleece blanket and pillow in there to sleep. There is no food / water and little space for toiletting due to the pillow size.

Routine wise he is currently on 3 meals a day. 0700-0800 brekkie, 1230-1300 lunch and about 1730 for dinner. We were feeding him 20grams of Purina Beta per sitting which we have increased to 30grams per sitting.

'Nacho' is getting 3 walks a day of approx' 30mins a go. He normally has the run of the house and has a massive garden to run around in too.

If I put up a few questions, hopefully folks will be inclined to leave their opinions. I appreciate they will differ wildly but the more the merrier...

1.) As mentioned we are using a crate as described above. Currently when we put him to bed sometime between 2200 - 0000hrs, he sleeps in 2 to 3hr blocks before crying and howling. I get up, go downstairs and let him out around the house which results in a either a wee or poop. We use puppy pads which 75% of toiletting is done on these but there are obviously times when he doesn't. The problem I have here is that he doesn't like to pee or poop outside at the moment. If i get up and let him out, he will literally pine at the door the whole time then come back inside and do whatever on the floor. If i go outside with him, he usually chews some stones, runs around like a mad head then the minute i let him in, he finds a spot and goes for gold. Are there any suggestions or tips for promoting even going outside in the first place??!! Once we have conquered that hurdle, I am hoping patience will see to the finer art of toilet training.

2.) We are feeding him 3 x 30grams of Purina Beta. Is that too much or too little? The brand was used by the breeder and the amount I got off the side of the bag. One thing I have noticed is that when we first got him, his stools were very dark brown and very solid. Now they are much lighter and a lot wetter, verging on cow-pat style. Is he having too much food which in turn is leading to the poo's being like they are ?? Whats the brand like reputation wise?? I have a bag of 'Science Plan' off the vet which looks pretty as well mind..

3.) In terms of development, what sort of milestones should I be looking at?? Nacho is 3.5 months old exactly - is the mentioned behaviour par for the course or should we be a little more advanced ??

Thanks in advance for the replies - first puppy for me and my partner together (although we have both had puppies whilst living at home many years ago) so in the 'need as much info as possible' stage.


Offline mooching

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 10:36:11 PM »
Since the day we had we have been using a crate. It is a large crate, ample room for him, and we have a really comfortable fleece blanket and pillow in there to sleep. There is no food / water and little space for toiletting due to the pillow size.
It's important for him to have water available - you can get a small bolt-on water bowl which fixes to the side of the crate. I have a little 4" bowl for Alfie's crate.
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Routine wise he is currently on 3 meals a day. 0700-0800 brekkie, 1230-1300 lunch and about 1730 for dinner. We were feeding him 20grams of Purina Beta per sitting which we have increased to 30grams per sitting.
I'd suggest you change him to a better food as soon as possible. Beta has some nasties and is not very nutritious (I can give you more specific info if you like).
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'Nacho' is getting 3 walks a day of approx' 30mins a go.
That's a bit too much for a puppy of his age. The general rule of thumb is 5 mins per month of age, 2-3 times a day, until they are a year old. So therefore Nacho's walks should be no more than 15-20 mins, 2-3 times a day.
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1.) As mentioned we are using a crate as described above. Currently when we put him to bed sometime between 2200 - 0000hrs, he sleeps in 2 to 3hr blocks before crying and howling. I get up, go downstairs and let him out around the house which results in a either a wee or poop. We use puppy pads which 75% of toiletting is done on these but there are obviously times when he doesn't. The problem I have here is that he doesn't like to pee or poop outside at the moment. If i get up and let him out, he will literally pine at the door the whole time then come back inside and do whatever on the floor. If i go outside with him, he usually chews some stones, runs around like a mad head then the minute i let him in, he finds a spot and goes for gold. Are there any suggestions or tips for promoting even going outside in the first place??!!
Yes, stay out with him longer (until he does something), using whatever "cue word" you have chosen, and praise him like mad when he does something. At night, I would recommend keeping the lights as low as possible, making as little fuss of him as possible, and only taking him outside to toilet, not letting him do it in the house.

As you're using a crate, personally I would remove the pads because I think they can confuse the pup and make them think it's fine to go inside.

During the day, I'd recommend taking him outside every 20-30 minutes (except when he's asleep), and after every meal, every nap and every game. Every dog is different, but my pup was housetrained by the time he was 4 months old (but I never used pads).
Quote
2.) We are feeding him 3 x 30grams of Purina Beta. Is that too much or too little? The brand was used by the breeder and the amount I got off the side of the bag. One thing I have noticed is that when we first got him, his stools were very dark brown and very solid. Now they are much lighter and a lot wetter, verging on cow-pat style. Is he having too much food which in turn is leading to the poo's being like they are ?? Whats the brand like reputation wise?? I have a bag of 'Science Plan' off the vet which looks pretty as well mind..
Hills is a much better brand, though there are others I'd recommend above it, mostly for ethical reasons but also for reasons of content (I prefer human-grade meat to be used and as few extras added as possible).

If you change him over, do it gradually, not suddenly, to minimise the risk of an upset tum. It can be done in 4 days minimum, but I'd recommend taking 7-10 days to do it.
Quote
3.) In terms of development, what sort of milestones should I be looking at?? Nacho is 3.5 months old exactly - is the mentioned behaviour par for the course or should we be a little more advanced ??
He sounds fine to me, totally normal for his age. :D






Amanda

Offline MegandMolly

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 10:44:07 PM »
My Meg was a right pain to house train  ph34r She'd only 'go' on puppy pads! So I ended up putting them closer and closer to the back door, then outside, the on the lawn.  I then cut one in half, until she got the idea that going on the lawn was 'acceptable' - maybe the same would work for Nacho  :D

I think Amanda has answered most of the other queries you had  :D
Sam (that's me), Meg (B&W cocker), Ruby (Blue Roan cocker) and Gemma (Black lab)


Offline jessandme

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 11:03:05 PM »
I think you've got excellent answers to your questions.   :D

I do think it is a good idea to go outside with such a little one, every time, even in the dark and when it is pouring with rain.  Otherwise you aren't there to give his 'cue word' ( we say 'hurry up') and praise him when he gets it right. 


Offline mooching

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 11:38:49 PM »
Here's the lowdown on Beta:-

Ingredients for Beta Puppy Chicken & Rice:

Quote
Cereals (min 4% wholegrain, min. 4% rice), Meat and animal derivatives (min. 14% meats, min. 4% chicken), Vegetables protein extracts, Oils and fats, Derivatives of vegetable origin (min. 0.5% beet pulp), Vegetables (min. 0.5% chicory), Minerals. With antioxidants and preserved with EC additives.

Things to note:

- largest ingredient is cereals, and non-specific cereals at that (meaning it's likely to be cereal waste products). Many dogs are fine with
  a little cereal in their diet, but large quantities are not generally good for them, and are a common source of both allergies and
  digestive and skin issues

- "meat and animal derivatives" is second largest ingredient; again it's non-specific - aside from the 4% chicken (and you don't know
   what part of the chicken you have in there either), the rest of the "meat" content is not specified and could be anything, including
   waste products, from any animal at all really

- vegetable content is also 99.9% non-specific - meaning that its content is also likely to be vegetable waste products

- mineral content is unspecified

- the antioxidants used are synthetic and have in certain cases been found to be carcinogenic

- EC additives basically means a load of chemicals

Offline Welsh_Wizard

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 01:24:53 AM »
flippin heck, the Beta is getting burnt tomorrow !!! Naughty Purina  >:D

so.. onto either Hills Science Plan or something even better ?? Whats better ?? Royal Canine ?? Haven't seen any other brand in my local 'Pets At Home'

...and yeah, some quality answers to thanks for taking the time to type !!   :luv:

Offline bracken

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 07:17:07 AM »
 I use Pro Plan puppy for my 6 month old and she loves she is thriving on it with a lovely glossy coat too  :luv: I also use James Wellbeloved for my older my dogs ...........they are both good foods  :blink:
Royal Canin is another   :blink:

Offline Nicola

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 10:07:27 AM »
flippin heck, the Beta is getting burnt tomorrow !!! Naughty Purina  >:D

so.. onto either Hills Science Plan or something even better ?? Whats better ?? Royal Canine ?? Haven't seen any other brand in my local 'Pets At Home'

Have a look on the Feeding board and you'll find lots of threads with recommendations of good-quality food brands. Fwiw I wouldn't consider Hills to be all that great, particularly considering what it costs. It's pushed by a lot of vets as they get commission on it.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Sheepscheeks

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 12:41:09 PM »
Welcome to COL!

Re toiletting outside - try putting your pup on a lead so he can't run back to the door? In the day, try playing outside a bit with him to stimulate him to go then loads of praise as already advised. At night cut out the play but just persevere and keep him outside til he has produced something then a quick praise before back to bed. It's torture getting up in the night I know - Freddie was tiny during all the snow last January - but it should be a fairly short period of pain for long term gain. All dogs are different, though. I never used puppy pads either - did intend to but ordered some online and they never arrived. Used newspaper instead and in hindsight I am glad I did. I think it helped Freddie to be housetrained by about 5 months old.

Re food, have you considered raw? Natural Instinct do frozen 1kg blocks. It was the making of Freddie after a couple of months of tummy trouble.

Good luck.  ;)
Paula & Freddie x

Offline mooching

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 12:55:47 PM »
so.. onto either Hills Science Plan or something even better ?? Whats better ?? Royal Canine ?? Haven't seen any other brand in my local 'Pets At Home'

Is food availability at Pets At Home a major consideration for you? For me, local pet shops are nearer than my nearest PAH - maybe it's not the same for you?

Offline black taz

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 01:06:23 PM »
If you opt for Hills science plan - have a look on zooplus.co.uk - i buy mine from there at good discounted prices.  both my cocker and lab are on science plan and it suits both of them.  The lab in particular has a fantastic sheen to her coat. 

I think you have received some very good advice on other guestions, though i would agree teaching a "cue" word to go is essential.

Offline Welsh_Wizard

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 01:36:01 PM »
Just wanted to ask a quick question regarding crates at night..

Nacho isn't at all bothered about being in his crate at night, he isn't anxious or whimpering when being left alone. He is however barking every 2hrs or so to go outside to the toilet. This is all through the night from whenever we put him to bed till approx' 7am when I feel like the neighbours are sharping their knives next door for him !

Is this normal?? So many trips to the toilet ??

I am really happy that he is alerting me, being let outside and actually doing something then settling back down to bed, but i would have thought his bladder would be a little stronger than that considering he doesn't go as much as that during the day !

Any clues ??

Thanks in advance..

Offline bracken

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2010, 01:49:48 PM »
Just wanted to ask a quick question regarding crates at night..

Nacho isn't at all bothered about being in his crate at night, he isn't anxious or whimpering when being left alone. He is however barking every 2hrs or so to go outside to the toilet. This is all through the night from whenever we put him to bed till approx' 7am when I feel like the neighbours are sharping their knives next door for him !

Is this normal?? So many trips to the toilet ??

I am really happy that he is alerting me, being let outside and actually doing something then settling back down to bed, but i would have thought his bladder would be a little stronger than that considering he doesn't go as much as that during the day !

Any clues ??

Thanks in advance..
Do you pick up the water early evening ?

Offline Welsh_Wizard

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2010, 02:02:47 PM »
No, he has access to his water bowl constantly when he is out of his crate and roaming the house.

When he gets in his crate though he doesn't have access to the bowl and he doesn't have anything inside the crate.

Should we be doing this ?? A simple solution if ever there was one but I didn't think that would be healthy if he was gasping for a drink..

Offline bracken

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Re: General puppy advice for 14 week old boy cocker
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 02:16:52 PM »
It is a personnal choice my pup is 6 months and I didn't lift the bowl with her but my other cocker Rosie would take on loads of water at night which did lead to puddles so we took it up from around 8pm, she would go to bed at 10pm this really helped and we were soon puddle free  :blink:
If water is down all during the day and evening lifting around 8pm your dog shouldn't be gasping.
He is such a good boy for telling you he needs to go ..bless him  :luv: thats excellent for such a young pup.