CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Topdog9 on January 19, 2007, 07:51:48 PM
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I went to see a litter of puppies recently and one that I particularly liked was tiny at birth and is unlikely to grow any bigger than a Chihuahua. The puppy is healthy, according to the breeder and the vet who saw her at 8 weeks. The parents are both KC registered and of breed standard size.
Does anyone have any experience of Cocker Spaniels who are so very small. Is there an increased chance of poor health or other concerns that I should consider.
I would be grateful for any advice or guidance.
Many thanks
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No experience at all but oh my god, I just can't imagine it[img width= height= alt=Wow 2]http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/wow.gif[/img]
as small as a chihuhua?!! I suppose one major health risk would be the danger of it being stepped on!!
You could get one of those dog bags a la Paris Hilton!! ph34r
Does sound very strange but extremely cute :luv:
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I have never heard of this before in cockers... Dwarfism is known in German Shepherds and a few other breeds, affected dogs look like perfect miniature versions of a 'normal' dog of their breed.
Chihuahua size really is extremely small though. Did the puppy appear healthy? Did it look like the other puppies (except smaller obviously!)?
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The puppy appeared very well, interacted well with the other puppies and was not at all timid. Her size is very small indeed - I would say, at six weeks, about half the size of her brother. So small in fact that I could hold her comfortably in the palm of my hand.
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I can't really help either, I've never seen a "miniature cocker", I've seen some slightly smaller than the breed average and I've seen ones taller too. Even had a litter in which one of my pups was noticably much smaller than the rest but in reality his birth weight was within the normal limits for a cocker, he grew to the same size as the rest, by 8 weeks he was just a bit smaller and lighter, but he caught up and he is as healthy as the rest.
I don't really know what to say on the one hand you've picked this one out and they say it is healthy but on the other the height issue may put certain restrictions on any insurance you take out as it is unusually small. Are you willing to accept a pup with health issues and could you pay for them if the insurance won't cover this kind of problem? Maybe the pup will grow to the correct height eventually, or has the breeder bred these 2 dogs before and similar happened in the last litter and thats why they say it wont grow past chihuhua size?
I'm sure someone with more experience will be able to offer more advice.
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WOW!!..that tiny? Well..if you get her I really cant wait to see pictures!!! I'm sure shes absolutely lovely :luv:
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I just did a google search and found this. It's not a fantastic article, but way down towards the end it does refer to dwarfism in Cockers, and shows a photo of a dwarf cocker, but not necessarily the same as you have been to see.
http://www.dogstuff.info/dwarfism_part_three_lanting.html
Edited to add: this is about an American Cocker though:
http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf61435648.tip.html
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I've never heard of or seen a Cocker the size of a Chihuahua :huh: It's not really possible to predict how big a puppy will be as an adult by looking at how big it is at 6-8 weeks old so am a bit surprised to hear a breeder saying this. You can get tiny pups in litters - we've bred the odd one who is much, much smaller than the rest of the litter such as Rosie's Ellie but she is way bigger than a Chihuahua although very small for a Cocker. A small Cocker does not mean an unhealthy Cocker but if this puppy really is going to stay the size of the smallest breed in the world (ie weighing no more than 6lbs as an adult), then yes, I think I'd be concerned that this was extremely abnormal (though I'm puzzled how anyone knows how big this pup will be as an adult)
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Srange coincidence maybe but there is one being advertised on a certain puppies for sale website that claims the same thing 'unlikely to grow larger than a chihauhau'
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I've just seen this advert too - the breeder says she's black & white although she looks like a light blue roan and although she's small, I wouldn't say she's destined to be the size of a Chihuahua (she's already bigger than a Chihuahua pup). I really shouldn't look at that site as some of the ads make me despair >:(
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puppies that size used to be called the 'runt' of the litter ;) Out of the four pups I can definitely call the runt of the litter three grew to be the same size as their parents and one slightly smaller, they caught up in their own time and at their own pace. :D
I do know a very unscrupulous breeder though who sold under age puppies that looked tiny that were supposed to be 8 weeks and turned out to be only 5 weeks from a different litter.
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Know what you mean about the ads, even sadder is the large number of re-homes offered and in many cases they could have only had the pup for a month or so though theres as many older ones - some quite blatantly are offering a bitch as 'suitable for breeding, has had many previous litters' etc. Makes me mad.
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Hope that I am not going to sound too dim ph34r
How can you tell at 8 weeks how big a dog is going to be ?
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in weims it would be size of ears and feet they tend to grow into them but I suppose the correct answer should be knowing the line of your pup, how big are the parents and grandparents, previous siblings from other litters? etc.
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Srange coincidence maybe but there is one being advertised on a certain puppies for sale website that claims the same thing 'unlikely to grow larger than a chihauhau'
No doubt being touted as the latest fashion accessory >:(
TBH, it doesn't surprise me (but saddens me a lot) - cockers are renowned for their "cute" look (imo, cuter than chihuahuas), so it was only a matter of time before someone tried to cash in on the trend for handbag/teacup dogs in this way >:(
I can only imagine the shock to the system of anyone who buys a miniature cocker expecting a lapdog - can you imagine ?? :005: :005:
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I've got 2 different types in my litter. 5 Flumps (as I call them) and 3 smaller ones. The smaller one's aren't exactly tiny though, they are just smaller boned/framed. They aren't weak either ;) with 8 puppies and 5 of those REALLY greedy I do have to spend a lot of time making sure the smaller ones don't get pushed out of the way by the bulldozers :D
Can't imagine a Cocker the size of a Chihuahua :huh: shame on supposed "breeders" for even advertising it like it's something to be proud of >:D
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Top Dog. Are you absolutely sure this is a reputable breeder :huh: ? I know you say both parents are KC registered but that is not the be-all-and-end-all. I think this sounds very odd and would have strong doubts about this litter and the breeder to be honest. Just my gut feeling.
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Top Dog. Are you absolutely sure this is a reputable breeder :huh: ? I know you say both parents are KC registered but that is not the be-all-and-end-all. I think this sounds very odd and would have strong doubts about this litter and the breeder to be honest. Just my gut feeling.
completely agree with you happydog, this doesn't sound like something a reputable breeder to me :-\
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To be fair to the breeder in the advert, they don't sound uncaring as such but probably lack any real knowledge and experience. They do state they're looking for a special home and are not asking a high price (like "teacup" breeders would do). I just don't get where they've plucked the Chihuahua size from :huh:
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A bit OT maybe, but I had a really tiny pup in one litter. At 7 weeks she was half the size of her littermates. Well, - she is the biggest in that litter now (at almost 2 yrs), way above the breed standard. So hardly a chihuahua :005: :lol:
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Know what you mean about the ads, even sadder is the large number of re-homes offered and in many cases they could have only had the pup for a month or so though theres as many older ones - some quite blatantly are offering a bitch as 'suitable for breeding, has had many previous litters' etc. Makes me mad.
how can they sell dogs that have been part of the family. if there was ever a time that i couldn't keep my dogs i would never dream of trying to get money for them. i would try to find a home and failing that i would choose a rescue with care too. those poor dogs must be heartbroken :'(
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Poppy was the smallest in her litter and at 5 months she is still about half the size of some of her bigger brothers!
I really can't believe that this pup will only grow to the size a Chihuahua. I would be very interested in seeing photos tho ph34r
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Poppy was the smallest in her litter and at 5 months she is still about half the size of some of her bigger brothers!
I really can't believe that this pup will only grow to the size a Chihuahua. I would be very interested in seeing photos tho ph34r
yes, but poppy was sold to you by a responsible breeder who acknowledged her diminutive size and preferred her to go to a good non-working home as the breeder doubted that she would be big enough to work :luv:
most runts catch up, there is no doubt in my mind that this little pup will grow, maybe into a small cocker but never as small as a chi
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Poppy was the smallest in her litter and at 5 months she is still about half the size of some of her bigger brothers!
I really can't believe that this pup will only grow to the size a Chihuahua. I would be very interested in seeing photos tho ph34r
yes, but poppy was sold to you by a responsible breeder who acknowledged her diminutive size and preferred her to go to a good non-working home as the breeder doubted that she would be big enough to work :luv:
most runts catch up, there is no doubt in my mind that this little pup will grow, maybe into a small cocker but never as small as a chi
She was indeed Helen, she didn't want her to be worked, bred from or live as an outside dog because of her size, so lucky for us we could offer her the right home :luv:
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well rolos mam is small and shes had some small pups and mostly theyve gone to working homes and they work well . as long as their mouths arent too small so they have to grip the bird too hard. But rolos sister aairaigh really is little. she IS too small to work or ever breed from shes in a pet home and spayed. shes about 12 inches ( just) at shoulder. shes a toot. but a bossy little madam and she is as healthy as can be . dogs are like people you get big ones and small ones and they are equally healthy.
and aaraigh would never sit still long enough to go into anyones handbag .she's fitted with long life batteries.. never tires, shes a big dog in a small form. also one of rolos half sisters is 16 inches at shoulders so you never can tell how they are going to turn out. ;)
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well rolos mam is small and shes had some small pups and mostly theyve gone to working homes and they work well . as long as their mouths arent too small so they have to grip the bird too hard. But rolos sister aairaigh really is little. she IS too small to work or ever breed from shes in a pet home and spayed. shes about 12 inches ( just) at shoulder. shes a toot. but a bossy little madam and she is as healthy as can be . dogs are like people you get big ones and small ones and they are equally healthy.
and aaraigh would never sit still long enough to go into anyones handbag .she's fitted with long life batteries.. never tires, shes a big dog in a small form. also one of rolos half sisters is 16 inches at shoulders so you never can tell how they are going to turn out. ;)
she sounds small enough to post to wiltshire then ;) go on jean.....
(sorry, off topic...but it's a liver worker thing.....)
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But rolos sister aairaigh really is little. she IS too small to work or ever breed from shes in a pet home and spayed. shes about 12 inches ( just) at shoulder. shes a toot. but a bossy little madam
Sounds EXACTLY like poptart :luv:
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I warn you Helen she can be even more disgusting than Rolo.
1) her owner my best pal is afraid of birds. aaraigh is better than a cat at catching them and takes them all in and hides them all over the house.
2) my friend thinks she is percy thrower. so does aaraigh. she planted a rabbit where ther was a geranium.. it had been dug up and unceremonialy cast aside. my friend saw said geranium raced over to save the plant and saw a pair of ears sticing out of ground. mystified she caught hold of ears and pulled.. like paul daniels she pulled a completely whole unmarked but v dead rabbit from its shallow grave wher it had been interred sitting upright like budda... aairaigh must have been hoping loke plants it wouls send out rabbit shoots!! :luv:
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mich you can see her in rolos birthday pic you wont have to work out which one she is.. have a look..
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mich you can see her in rolos birthday pic you wont have to work out which one she is.. have a look..
ok, will do now ;) :D
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http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/jeanmurray/HPIM1041.jpg
i found it here is link..( i hope)
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:o she looks sooo similar :luv:
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shes a hooligan!!! :luv:
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There are two tiny show cockers in the agility classes I go to - one was just big enough to show but has now retired, but she is still tiny next to my galoot - the other little gem is really pocket sized, and has been enrolled in agility as she is too small to show ;)
I agree with Helen, I think the concern in this case is the assertion of the breeder that the pup will only grow to a certain size (when that can't possibly be known) rather than the fact that there is a small pup in the litter ;)
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I agree rachel although rolo was the biggest in the litter as a small pup hes not now!
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When we got Henry he was 16 weeks old as the breeder had kept him back as he was the runt of the litter and she wanted to make sure he had developed properly. His mum had a litter of 10, 8 were of normal size but Henry and his brother were only 5 oz at birth and had to be hand reared, sadly his brother died but Henry was a little scrapper and thrived. He is of normal size now but I don't know how long it took him to catch up. On the reverse with Syd and Harry they come from a litter of 8 all normal weights but as tots Syd and Harry were two of the biggest pups in the litter, yet now Syd is fine boned and petite and Harry is solid and chunky so it shows that birth weight and size don't always reflect the adult dog you end up with.
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I can only imagine the shock to the system of anyone who buys a miniature cocker expecting a lapdog - can you imagine ?? :005: :005:
They will be in for a nasty shock! ;)
Gives a whole new meaning to the name "pocket rocket" :005:
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:005: :005:
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At the end of the day dogs are like humans. The birth weight big or small doesn't always mean that's how they will end up. How many mothers on this forum have had prem or small babies. Doesn't mean they will end up small as an adult. The same applies with puppies, some will be naturally smaller and finer, it's the law of averages :D
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At the end of the day dogs are like humans. The birth weight big or small doesn't always mean that's how they will end up. How many mothers on this forum have had prem or small babies. Doesn't mean they will end up small as an adult. The same applies with puppies, some will be naturally smaller and finer, it's the law of averages :D
I definitely agree with that Gilly, our Paige was born 9 weeks early weighing 2lb 10oz......she's now 13, 5' 8" (compared to my 5' 2") so much for our dinky little girl hey :005:
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:D
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poppis lovely. shes got a lovely coat.
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I think Tia was the smallest in her litter, though they all looked tiny to me!!
Last time I went to see her breeder, Tia's litter sister was double her size ph34r, a right chunky madam! My Tia is just a delicate, finely built little thing... Bless her :luv: