CockersOnline Forum
General => Introductions => Topic started by: mfarrar on January 21, 2008, 01:54:49 PM
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Hi all,
After having lived with dogs pretty much all my life im finding it hard to live without one now I have my own home. I grew up with Cav King Charles but I would like something different and having done a lot of reading up I think a Cocker would suit us better as they are more energetic. Both myself and my partner are very active.
Trying to decide now whether to go for a puppy or an older dog, I would like a puppy but we both work full time. We have lots of time to spare though and dont work long hours, I would be able to nip back home from work at lunches so we wouldn't have to leave a dog on its own for too long. I think initially I would take leave to get the dog adjusted, a couple of weeks or maybe even a month.
I would be grateful for some opinions/adivse.
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Hi and welcome to COL, it's addictive on this site.
I have 2 Cockers one 8yrs old and one 2.5 yrs old, both were rescues. If you look at our rescue section there are always Cockers needing great homes and if you work, a slightly older one may be more suitable for you.
Whatever route you choose to take, good luck.
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Hi welcome to col ;)
i am owned by Lady 1 year old working cocker ;) :luv:
and to say she is energetic is an under statement :005:
if you were to get a cocker id say a working one :luv:
they have alot of energy and always up for a walk,run with the ball etc :D
check out the working group on here it will give you more advise ;)
hope that helps ;)
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Hi and welcome to COL, it's addictive on this site.
I have 2 Cockers one 8yrs old and one 2.5 yrs old, both were rescues. If you look at our rescue section there are always Cockers needing great homes and if you work, a slightly older one may be more suitable for you.
Whatever route you choose to take, good luck.
Hi Louise,
I have contacted my local cocker rescue and given them my number. Have you had any behaviour problems with your rescue dogs? Im a little worried about about them, not really knowing the history, treatment from previous owner & health if it has come from a puppy farm. Would it being a rescue dog make things difficult when it comes to insurance?
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Hi welcome to col ;)
i am owned by Lady 1 year old working cocker ;) :luv:
and to say she is energetic is an under statement :005:
if you were to get a cocker id say a working one :luv:
they have alot of energy and always up for a walk,run with the ball etc :D
check out the working group on here it will give you more advise ;)
hope that helps ;)
Hi Clarey,
What are the differences with a working cocker apart from the extra energy?
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Hi and welcome :D ...hope you find a special cocker soon. I have two blue roans and am sure once you have a cocker you will be addicted ;) :luv:
Not experienced in working cockers, mine are show type, but there are lots of members on here with workers and I'm sure they will be along to help soon :D
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Just to say that show-type Cockers also have plenty of energy so don't imagine they are couch potatoes and working Cockers are the only choice if you are active people ;) If you do a search on the forum (Search button is towards the top of your screen), you'll find plenty of threads on the differences between show-type and working Cockers. In the end, it's a question of personal preference but neither type is "better" than the other - it's just a case of what you're looking for in a dog and what kind of home you can offer.
PS I don't want to put a dampener on your enthusiasm but a quick visit home at lunchtime would not be enough for a Cocker puppy or even a young adult so you might have to look into employing a dog walker or sitter for at least part of the day if you are both working full time.
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Just to say that show-type Cockers also have plenty of energy so don't imagine they are couch potatoes and working Cockers are the only choice if you are active people ;) If you do a search on the forum (Search button is towards the top of your screen), you'll find plenty of threads on the differences between show-type and working Cockers. In the end, it's a question of personal preference but neither type is "better" than the other - it's just a case of what you're looking for in a dog and what kind of home you can offer.
PS I don't want to put a dampener on your enthusiasm but a quick visit home at lunchtime would not be enough for a Cocker puppy or even a young adult so you might have to look into employing a dog walker or sitter for at least part of the day if you are both working full time.
Hi Jane,
My plan is to walk the dog first thing in the morning so hopefully it would sleep until lunch when I would take it out again and then another walk when I finish. I am back at four 3 days and earlier for two so not long hours. My partner works from home sometimes too so that would help.
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My plan is to walk the dog first thing in the morning so hopefully it would sleep until lunch when I would take it out again and then another walk when I finish. I am back at four 3 days and earlier for two so not long hours. My partner works from home sometimes too so that would help.
That routine wouldn't work with a puppy as they need much more attention than this but it could work with an adult as long as he/she was happy to be left alone for a fair amount of time (not all Cockers are). If you are considering a rescue Cocker, a reputable rescue would ensure that only dogs suitable for your lifestyle would be offered to you so do go via this route rather than private ads in newspapers/websites.
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Yeah when I spoke to my local rescue they said they would take that into account.
At what age is a dog generally considered to be an adult?
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At what age is a dog generally considered to be an adult?
Technically a year old is considered adult, although cockers (and many other breeds) continue to mature and fill out until 2 (and sometimes later)
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That was why I was thinking of a rescue Cocker that wasn't a puppy because of your working situation. Myself and OH both work but seem to manage our hours around the dogs so they're not left for more than 3-4 hours at a time. Of course, we have had the odd exception but OH made sure he came back at lunch time to let them out or he took them in his van with him.
My 2 show types have plenty of energy, even my 8yr old will still happily go all day. My 2.5yr old is a handful at times and I took him on knowing that he had behavioural issues (he suffers from fear aggression because of ill treatment) but not all rescues have issues. Most are absolutely fine with everything. It makes no difference to insure a dog whether it's a rescue or not.
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My OH and I work F/T and we successfully managed to raise Molo as a pup - with the help of flexi-time, staggered lunch breaks and pet sitters :D
It CAN be done - it is incredibly hard work at first, and requires significant investment both in time and money (pet sitters and take-outs when you are too tired too cook ;)).
We took staggered time off work when he arrived, so he had a month to settle in; by which time he was happy to settle for a hour or two twice a day - with visits from me, OH, and a pet-sitter several times a day for wee's, play and training ;) As he got older, we gradually increased the time between visits - and now, we manage without a sitter unless one of us is working away ;)
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and to say she is energetic is an under statement :005:
if you were to get a cocker id say a working one :luv:
they have alot of energy and always up for a walk,run with the ball etc :D
The first and third statements would be pretty much why I would say that a working cocker would not be the best choice for you with your current circumstances. They are lovely dogs but they are bred as working gundogs and are extremely active. They have a lot of energy and therefore aren't really suited to being left home most of the day with just a quick lunchtime visit. I have 3 working cockers and I work but they go to daycare all day with someone who is experienced with cockers, including workers (she has one). It costs a fortune, it's like a second mortgage but I wouldn't be able to have them otherwise, they are too active and need too much stimulation to be left at home alone most of the day. In your situation I would think that a slightly older rescue show cocker, or even pair of show cockers would be a much better option.
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I will certainly keep my eyes open for a rescue dog. I imagine the problem free young ones are quite hard to get hold of, and with us being a working couple im guessing we will goto the bottom of the pile for potential adopters.
Are cockers quite bad for being left on their own? What I read on the internet said the likelyhood of distress when left is low, I suppose it depends a lot on the individual dog.
My parents have had both king charles from young puppies, both work and have never had problems. They have both been very happy good natured dogs.
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Hi there and welcome... I am new here as well and can only speak of my experience of having a 7 month old Cocker....
I must admit reading this thread and clearly the very good advise being offered would have made me think twice about getting a Cocker.... but despite a little bit of research the option of the dog was there and when we saw him we couldn't resist!!! :)
So then... yes he is very active... he normally has two walks a day, each of at least 1km's but often longer.... you'll be surprised once you get going around the streets how the distance racks up and it doesn't take very long either... and once in open space and off the lead they are easily run twice as far as you as they dart back and forth :blink: At weekends he usually gets a much longer run as we have more time....for use it must be at least 2-3 miles for him it must be nearly double that.
He wee's and poo's then has a drink and generally settles down... until the kids start to tease him.... he is very good with them.... fortunately, but generally during the day is always on his feet around the house. We have a reasonable size garden so he is out there often and again this helps him burnoff all that energy.
Sometimes he is left on his own during the day for up to around 6 hours, once or twice a week.... he is very pleased to see us, but we haven't noticed no problems with him.
From an early age we caged him overnight and he wasn't too happy about that but he soon got used to it.... now we let him sleep in his basket in our bedroom and he is very content with that..... frankly so are we... it's lovely and reassuring knowing he's there with us. The downside is that at night is the one times when he will yelp and howl if he is now left on his own, for example in the kitchen (despite their better eyesight, perhaps they get scared of the dark like kids) ::)
We have no issues with him at all really... except he picks up everything in sight and if it is remotely edible he will eat it.
Maybe we have been lucky... but if you think you could run a similar schedule as us then I can't see any reason why a Cocker would not be fine for you.
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Have just posted a similar reply to a thread in the "Puppies" section, but the jist is as follows...
1) Yes, Cockers can be hard work, but they are very good pets if you are willing/able to give them the attention and exercise they need.
2) We both work, and Honey is sometimes left up to about 5 hours (not often, but it does happen). We discussed our lifestyle with the breeder, and she directed our choice slightly, as she knew the personalities of her pups. We gradually got her used to being left from the very first week (Starting at 10 minutes and building up).
3) I walk Honey every morning, then may need to head off to work. Someone will visit her at lunch for food and a good play (either me or a friend, who had volunteered to do this before we got her). She will then get another walk in the evening. This is supplemented by lots of play and training. I find she gets more irritated if I don't leave her for a couple of hours...
4) If you do your reseach and are honest about the time/money you can devote to your dog, and still feel confident you can meet their needs, then go for it... I wouldn't change Honey for anything!!!
:D
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Thanks thats very helpful, could I ask you what age did you have your cocker from?
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We got Honey as a pup at 8 weeks old.
She's still only 5 months, so we have a way to go before she grows up fully - but she is a fantastic personality and is fantastic with people and other dogs.... we are going through teething, which is driving us to distraction, but we still wouldn't change her for the world!!!
editted to add - looking at time stamps, your reply was probably directed to Busterdan, but I think our experiences seem fairly similar...
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Hello,
You'll find that two of the biggest issues when getting a dog are working and children, most reputable breeders will say an outright no if you work full time and or have children under 5 years old (some have a minimum of 7), some breeders will take each case on it's merit but try not be tempted to get a puppy or dog from someone that doesn't ask questions about your work. An older rescue would probably be more suitable but you may also find that most rescues won't home to people who work full time :blink:.
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We had Ollie from the age of 9 weeks.... also he is fed twice daily about 7:30am and 5:00pm He did seem to go off his food a bit during teething but it seems that he was being over fed.... now he gulps it all.
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I was looking at puppies at 12 weeks and it said they would already be housetrained or sheet trained, I think that would help initially. I will be able to take atleast two weeks off for a settling in period then my partner could take leave after that so between us we should be able to manage a month or more of full attention. So when going back to work he/she would be 4 months old + and we would have plenty of time to have got the pup used to some seperation.
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I think the key is being honest with a breeder, if you go for a pup. One of the first things we said when enquiring with our breeder was "we do both work - is this a problem?" - mainly so we didn't waste her or our time, but also it showed we had considered that this wasn't ideal, but had come up with ways to meet our pup's needs in spite of this.
From many discussions on here, don't think we could claim that Honey's breeder is one of the top-notch reputable breeders - she is half worker/half show, which I know is frowned upon. However, she was very knowledgable, clearly cared for her animals and their offspring and gave us excellent advice.
We didn't know a lot about cocker breeding when we started looking, and I guess we could so easily have ended up with a poorly bred animal, but we were so lucky to find the person we found (despite the fact that many on here would not approve) - she keeps in touch, we were able to go and visit several times before bringing Honey home, all the dogs she had, as well as all the pups from the litter, seemed so happy and confident, she had obviously done a fantastic job - and she gave us good advice about which pup to choose (from very early on Honey was quite happy to play with her litter mates, but also happy to play alone.... a good sign for a pup that's going to be left alone later in life). She was also virtually paper-trained....
We were prepared for the fact that we would probably be rejected by many breeders because of our work, but were willing to keep looking until we found one we were happy with who was also happy with us. Fortunately our search didn't take long at all.
We did consider rescue, but none of the local rescues would consider us because of our work.
I would underline what others have said about not making do with a breeder you are not happy with just because they are happy to give you a pup - if you don't feel happy about the breeder, walk away, as you could end up with a very troubled pup, who would not be able to cope with time alone.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
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When we got Ollie at 9 weeks he was for the most part house trained.... the main problem is pee'ing as they tend to stop and do that wherever they like. Obviously it gets better and the pup makes fewer and fewer mistakes... the walking routine helps too... by about 3 - 4 months I'd say Ollie was completely house clean.
He also knows the drill "wee wee's".... and off he marches outside..... squats and then comes back in.... they are smart animals.
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I was looking at puppies at 12 weeks and it said they would already be housetrained or sheet trained, I think that would help initially.
Um, not necessarily ph34r Most young dogs will become selectively house trained at first - when they go visiting or move into a new home, they have to learn that house training means not peeing in ANY house, not just their own :005:
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I don't know how anyone can guarantee house trained at 12 weeks :-\ Seems very young.
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I don't know how anyone can guarantee house trained at 12 weeks :-\ Seems very young.
very young indeed :lol: sams house trained now. he's 10 months ::) i would say up unitl 7 1/2 8 months he was still very hit and miss. he'd be great for days then have a bad patch. now he's gone 6-7 weeks without a single accident :D
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I think they may have meant trained to go on puppy pads or paper
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Hi and welcome to COL! :D
We have a 4 yr old working cocker girl called Bracken, we took her on back in July (she was a puppy farm ex-breeding girl). Her temperament and behaviour has been second to none, and although we still have an occasional problem with puddles in the morning (specially if her routine is changed) I cant fault her.
I also work, but 30 hours a week, which i do every day until 3pm then straight home to walkies! She has a quick outing in the morning at breakfastime, a good long one in the late afternoon on my return from work, and a further one at bedtime. We also have a garden she can run out in for a quick wee, when we are here.
It seems to work well for us all, and frankly, anything was better than what she had been putting up with (kennelled for 24/7). She seems to fit in well with us, and is happy to be at home on her own between 0830 - 1500 (I did start off by popping home at lunchtime, but she was usually fast asleep!) although she is working strain, and she loves to get out and run, she is happy to be home and crashed in her basket/front of the fire etc...! We all love her to bits here.
Hope this helps persuade you that slightly older dogs are worth a chance ;)
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Are cockers quite bad for being left on their own? What I read on the internet said the likelyhood of distress when left is low, I suppose it depends a lot on the individual dog.
My parents have had both king charles from young puppies, both work and have never had problems. They have both been very happy good natured dogs.
It depends on the dog, some are ok and some aren't. No dog will be ok with being left on its own without a long period of building it up and becoming accustomed to it first and no dog should be left alone for more than 4 hours at any one time. My dogs don't get distressed as such if I have to leave them as I have purposely got them used to being left for up to around 4 hours in case of unforeseen circumstances but even still I don't think it would be fair to them to do this every day.
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:D hi and welcome x
We have Kasper just 8 months, we have had him since he was approximately 12 weeks and he is left for periods through the day, my OH works nights and i am a student nurse so i am home 4/5 days a week when i am in UNI, but obviously not when on the wards. However despite this I leave at 1 sh and my OH is up at 3 to get the kids from school, but when i am on an early he will go from about 10 - 3 on his own (my hubby is in bed upstairs). He seems to cope fine with it to be honest.
At the end of the day it is your decision you know what works for you and your OH, you have had dogs in the past and your obviously doing your research and not rushing into anything. People have strong opinion's about what they feel is is right, people have strong opinions about most things we do in life, ultimately the only one who can truly decide are you and your significant other ;). Research suggests that babies/toddlers are better off at home with mum and not in a Nursery all day, but we can all accept that this is not always an option.
Provided you are in and out throughout the day (in the early days) and that your pup/dog is safe from harm while your gone I don't see the problem. I currently have the luxury of being at home home with Kasper for the Majority but, i feel it would be unfair for me to to say that only those who can afford/want to stay at home all day or pay for doggy sitting should consider having a dog. As long as you are committed to meeting his/her needs throughout it's life and you sound like you are, it is one less puppy/dog ending up in a bad home or a Rescue Center when there new owners realise how much time, money and effort it takes to look after a dog properly
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Thanks for your reply, we went and saw a breeder on a farm yesterday. She had some at 8 weeks, some at 2 and a litter that had just been born in the past couple of days. We are thinking about this last litter as time wise it would work out well. Its good to hear from other people that are in a similar situation to us and are coping! We have found someone locally that has offered to do day care reasonably if we need it so have that option. Definately going to have a month off work between us for puppy training. Going back to see the puppies at two weeks so I will keep posting with updates.
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I would be extremely wary of anyone who had 3 litters onsite.
Why on earth do they have so many puppies? it does sound a bit like this person is breeding entirely for financial gain.
Where were the puppies? In the house or in a barn.
If they were on a farm do you mean a working farm? Are the parents working or show type? If they are working cockers then what are their pedigrees? Do they come from excellent pedigrees.
How old are the bitches, how many litters do they have a year..... are the pups KC registered? Are there any other dogs on site?
Sorry lots and lots of questions - but these are the kind of questions you must be armed with if you intent on getting a well bred puppy whose health and temprament is paramount.
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.... I feel it would be unfair for me to to say that only those who can afford/want to stay at home all day or pay for doggy sitting should consider having a dog. As long as you are committed to meeting his/her needs throughout it's life and you sound like you are, it is one less puppy/dog ending up in a bad home or a Rescue Center when there new owners realise how much time, money and effort it takes to look after a dog properly
Nobody has suggested you have to be at home all day if you get a puppy - just that no puppy should be left alone for hours on end since a puppy has specific needs which can't be met if you're not there for most of the day (hence the suggestion of dog sitters/walkers for those that do work full time and can't come home several times during the day).
Thanks for your reply, we went and saw a breeder on a farm yesterday. She had some at 8 weeks, some at 2 and a litter that had just been born in the past couple of days. We are thinking about this last litter as time wise it would work out well.
This sounds like commercial breeding - be careful and check this breeder is reputable and does all the recommended health tests etc. Very few reputable breeders would consider having 3 litters at the same time - it is hard enough work looking after and socialising one litter, let alone three!
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Sorry I should have been a bit clearer, the breeder was recommended to me by a member on here who had her dog from them (her brother has one too) both excellent temperment. It is a working farm, the dogs are show type. I couldn't say about why she has so many, I think from what she said she wouldn't be breeding anymore this year. The dogs are from very good pedigree's so im told, show champions. The mother of the ones that were just recently born is two, im not sure about the father apart from he has been eye tested. I will see the parents when I go back there in a couple of weeks. The puppies were in a barn but very well kept and were very friendly, they loved being fussed.
They come kc registersted, 5 generations pedigree cert, photo's of both parents, vet checked, health screened, lots written info on diet etc, tatoo under ear with a unique code & bag of james wellbeloved puppy food. And she will taken them back if there any problems etc.
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My reservation would be that any pup born in a barn is not socialised properly with all the noises and sounds, and sights of a normal home :-\
Perhaps you should pm Jane S with the name of the Kennel Affix - :huh:
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I think tatooing is quite outdated too (I think!)
It really doesn't sound like an ideal situation to me, be very wary indeed. Don't be afraid to wait and travel.
If a pup is badly socialised it will cause problems guarenteed and be 100X more work. Given that you both work and therefore can't afford to be at home everyday with a problem pup i'd urge you to look at a different litter. Even in 4 months and propblem pup will not be 'fixed'.
I also feel that if pup is raised in a barn toilet training will be compromised perhaps :-\
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I have to say that opinion varies on what is a good and bad breeder, reccomendations are fine but make sure you decide for yourself whether you feel the breeder is reputable, one persons reputable breeder could be another persons commercial breeder. Going by what you've said I wouldn't be happy with this breeder because of the amount litters they have at the same time. Have you asked the breeder if at least one the parents of all the litters are Optigen PRA and FN tested clear and asked to see certificates with the results on?
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The father has been tested and clear, the bitch hasn't been tested she is only 2 it might be her first litter. I didn't ask to see the certificates. The other member that has a dog from her said her dogs temperment is really good and also her brother has one too and thats the same. I think it is possibly a relation to those dogs, maybe the same father, im going to find out next time I go. I was very happy with the breeder it was obvious she really loves her dogs.
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I was very happy with the breeder it was obvious she really loves her dogs.
By keeping them in a barn and not testing the bitch for a disease that could potentially cause blindness in her offspring :huh:
I know its really really hard when you find a puppy that you fall in love with, however I would truly err on the side of caution with anyone who had 3 litters onsite and was not completing any health tests.
When I was first searching for a puppy I was 'duped' by a commercial breeder. I too thought she loved her dogs and TBH I still believe she truly loved them HOWEVER she was blatantly bleeding just for the money. Here's what happened to us
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=15886.msg192543#msg192543 (http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=15886.msg192543#msg192543)
I was certainly not the first to be duped by her and I won't be the last - however when armed with knowledge about what constitutes a good/reputable breeder and what doesnt I wouldnt advise purchasing a puppy from any such establishments.
There are a few people on this site who have bought a puppy this breeder since, and probably before, they too are well adjusted, beautiful dogs, both on the inside and out, the point is by getting a dog from someone like this you are encouraging them to breed entirely for money. What about the poor bitch who is left in a barn to bring up her pups, no doubt to be bred from twice a year while she is still profitable :huh:
I know this probably sounds really negative when all you want is your puppy - its just very easy to get sucked in by people who are in it for money :-\
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The dogs are health checked, and with the father being optigen tested clear wouldn't that greatly reduce the chance of PRA in later life even if the mother carried the gene?
I read your post, its very sad. The breeder I saw wouldn't allow any contact with the puppies until two weeks.
I will have another good chat with her when I goto see the pups at two weeks.
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The dogs are health checked, and with the father being optigen tested clear wouldn't that greatly reduce the chance of PRA in later life even if the mother carried the gene?
I dont know that much about PRA but would have thought that any responsible breeder wouldnt breed from a dog who carried the gene for fear of it being passed on :huh:
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The dogs are health checked, and with the father being optigen tested clear wouldn't that greatly reduce the chance of PRA in later life even if the mother carried the gene?
Yes it would, infact (as I read on the labrador forum) if a mating of a carrier and a clear dog is done any carrier pups will NEVER develop the problem of this you can be certain and so can be sold as pets comfortably, there will be NO affected pups. It also goes on to say that even an affected dog could be mated to a clear dog and never produce a single puppy who will be affected, carriers yes, but not affected. So with a clear/ carrier mating the stats are 50%clear pups 50% carriers and a clear/ affected mating the stats are 100%carrier. As most people buy puppies as pets only I would agree with the labrador forum and say it is fine to buy a puppy with one parent tested clear as is the case with you. There is a good chance he will be clear and at worse a carrier who will never develop it anyway.
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I was very happy with the breeder it was obvious she really loves her dogs.
By keeping them in a barn and not testing the bitch for a disease that could potentially cause blindness in her offspring :huh:
This is inaccurate caroline, read up on pra, the sire has been tested CLEAR therefore the pups will NEVER be affected at worse carriers. Also many dogs are kept outside in barns and outdoor kennels etc particularly working dogs, my husbands friends who have working springers are kept outside in their own huge kennel with run etc, they have been since they were born.I personally wouldnt want to keep my dogs outside in a barn but that is my personal preference and doesnt mean I love my dogs more than those who choose to own outside dogs.
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There are lots of threads about PRA & Optigen testing if you do a search. As Bev has said, if one parent is Optigen tested clear, then no puppies will be affected by the disease but if the other parent is a carrier, then some pups will be carriers. Responsible breeders will ensure that registrations are endorsed and explain things fully so that pet owners are aware their puppy may be a carrier and should not be bred from without being tested first. It's ok saying the pups will be pets and so it doesn't matter but we all know pet Cockers are bred from all the time so it does matter for future generations.
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There are lots of threads about PRA & Optigen testing if you do a search. As Bev has said, if one parent is Optigen tested clear, then no puppies will be affected by the disease but if the other parent is a carrier, then some pups will be carriers. Responsible breeders will ensure that registrations are endorsed and explain things fully so that pet owners are aware their puppy may be a carrier and should not be bred from without being tested first. It's ok saying the pups will be pets and so it doesn't matter but we all know pet Cockers are bred from all the time so it does matter for future generations.
completely agree, I have found also that more and more breeders are putting into contracts that puppies are sold with the understanding that they will be spayed/neutered this can only be a good thing especially if the breeders have carrier pups. spaying/neutering, as we all agree, is the best thing for your dog :D
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Also many dogs are kept outside in barns and outdoor kennels etc particularly working dogs, my husbands friends who have working springers are kept outside in their own huge kennel with run etc, they have been since they were born.I personally wouldnt want to keep my dogs outside in a barn but that is my personal preference and doesnt mean I love my dogs more than those who choose to own outside dogs.
I agree with this, many, many of our friends with working dogs are kept outside, Wherry was initally planned to be kenneled overnight and only come inside for an hour or so at night.
HOWEVER, these are WOKRING dogs, not pets. Also if breeding the dogs would be taken inside to ensure they are constantly observed and that they are well socialised to all the sights and sounds of everyday life.
My concern would be more the ammount of litters, i'm aware that some breeders have litters together but three seems a lot to me.
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Thanks for your reply, we went and saw a breeder on a farm yesterday. She had some at 8 weeks, some at 2 and a litter that had just been born in the past couple of days. We are thinking about this last litter as time wise it would work out well.
This breeder certainly doesn't "tick all the the boxes" in terms of the advice given on COL on how to find a reputable breeder regardless of who has recommended them:
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/Reputable_Breeders
...and I know how tempting it is to compromise if you don't think that a reputable breeder will consider your individual circumstances (we had loads of breeders tell us that they wouldn't consider us; not only do we work but we had a toddler daughter, too).
But, because you are going to be working, and the time you are able to spend with your puppy is going to be limited while he/she is still young, then it is even more important (imo) that you find a puppy which has the best possible chance of good health, temperament and which is well socialised, so that you can get on with the important job of raising him or her, rather than having to fill the gaps that are left, or undo damage that may have been done :-\
As the article linked to above says - it is impossible for breeders with multiple litters to provide the same level of socialisation as a breeder who limits their litters to one at a time; and this is even more relevant if the litters are housed outside :-\
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But, because you are going to be working, and the time you are able to spend with your puppy is going to be limited while he/she is still young, then it is even more important (imo) that you find a puppy which has the best possible chance of good health, temperament and which is well socialised, so that you can get on with the important job of raising him or her, rather than having to fill the gaps that are left, or undo damage that may have been done :-\
Exactly what I was trying to say but better ;)
There is also the issue of going on a bit of a resuce mission the 'I just couldn't leave them there' and we all know what happens there.
You need to get on with teaching the pup natural progression, not making up for lost time in the months that you have off.
Even if you are set on this breeded, have a look around and see some other litters for comparison. It can't hurt and it will definatly help to gain more insight into different styles of breeders.
Just one more thing, and I don't mean to offend anyone on here but do remember this site can be used by commercial breeders who just have a quick look over the 'looking for a puppy' section for sales potential. I've had excellent recommendations for pups on here and some not so excellent :-\ Is the other member an established member with lots of posts in various sections? Have you looked at their previous posts? It may be worth a quick look. Again, I don't mean to offend anyone but it's very easy to trust people on such a friendly forum when in reality it can easily be used for other purposes.
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The breeder was recommended to me from someone that has had a dog from them which was of excellent temperment and well socialised and knows another dog from the same place that is the same.
The puppies I saw that were eight weeks were very well socialised, they were not shy of people they loved the attention. They looked to be very well cared for and in good health.
I understand where you are coming from, thinking about commercial breeders that mistreat there dogs breeding them to death and then dumping them. This was definately not someone like that.
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The 'other' member is me and no I am not a BYB or have anything to gain from any of this, I invite everyone to look at all of my previous posts from start to finish (as boring as they may be), I am quite good at covering my puppy farming tracks and am very proud of my innocent dog owning disguise. >:( I purchased my dog from this breeder and she came reccommended to me by many other breeders some of which are known on here, her dogs have MANY burnchild, toynsvins, bitcon, helleborus and lynwater in their pedigree and are health screened, optigen tested and well socialised. If this breeder is a 'bad' breeder it also makes many many members of this forums dogs breeders 'bad' too for either studding out their dogs or selling their bitches to her. I took advice from lots of people and even read on this forum for things to check for and search good pedigrees. This breeder does love her dogs the barn is directly next to the house and all puppies are kept warm and are played with and socialised.She offers constant support when the puppy is taken home and will take them back if it doesnt workout, none of her dogs are interbred and she doesnt keep getting her bitch pregnant constantly.
She has a good extended family so plenty of people to take care of the litters. And her farm is a real working farm not a puppy farm. I am sure you will all know some of the advice given on here is excellant I myself have often started threads asking for advice, but there is also some poor advice or people who think they know everything about everything.
As you can probably tell I have taken huuge offence from some of your posts as naive is something I hope I am not and chose my puppy carefully, if I am wrong I am wrong, my dog was easy to toilet train, slept through the night really quickly, is confident, loving and very typical of his breed. He posed no problems for us whatsoever and to put judgement on something you havent seen first hand is quite wrong of you.
I am really upset and am sure I wont be posting on this forum anymore which is a shame because of the few friends I did get to know. But hey.
I'm done ::)
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At the end of the day, you are the person who has seen these pups - you have read enough on this site to know the indicators of puppy farming, and the risks associated with it so, if you are happy that the conditions the pups are being raised in, then it's time to start getting prepared for your new arrival. :D
People do have different opinions about what constitutes a responsible breeder, but if you are happy that the pups, and mums, are happy, healthy and well-socialised, that is what matters!!!
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I understand where you are coming from, thinking about commercial breeders that mistreat there dogs breeding them to death and then dumping them. This was definately not someone like that.
Commercial breeders are not all "puppy farmers", some are very professional and provide their dogs with good quality kennelling, food and veterinary care. However, their motive is still profit - and they breed dogs for the pet market, with little consideration as to the genetic compatibility of the dogs they breed, and the conformity of the dogs they breed compared to the breed standards.
Obviously, if the dogs are of good temperament, health screened and well socialised, then the puppies have a good chance of a healthy, happy life - but the ethics of breeding dogs like this is still questionable, imo.
Bev, I hope you are still reading; I really don't think that any of the posts are criticising you; the same advice is given to everyone who asks :D
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Bev I'm not suggesting that you are a BYB or anything of the like but as I have said in my experience I have been contacted by 'members' recomending litters that turn out to be their pet breeding. Needless to say the had made little contribution to the site as was obvious from their previous posts.
There was also a case not so long ago of someone on here asking about labradoodles or cockerdoors or something. They were confused as they thought they were cross breed but another very helpful member had contacted them after their 'looking for a puppy' post recommending their litter and telling them all sorts about this fab new breed. Fair enough if they were being honest but they weren't. The original poster ended up feeling very confused and upset.
You say putting judgment on something yo haven't seen first hand is wrong but surely that's what an internet forum is wholly about. Of course we haven't seen it and unless we all regularly go to COL meets or are vets then that will remain the case.
I'm glad that you have a happy, healthy pup and that you have a breeder that you are happy with we can only go on how things 'sound' and in this case it sounds less than ideal. Perhaps that's not the case but I hope that anyone using the site is able to understand where people are coming from when being given advice. There is nothing malicious here, just a bunch of people working from their own experiences and trying to help others get the best pup they can to avoid heartache in the future. If you takeoffence to that then I'm sorry but I'd rather ensure that people were given the information and made up their own minds than we all kept quiet and the commercial breeders and puppy farmers had yet more customers.
In addition, though I'm not suggesting it in this case, a pedigree does not guarantee a good breeder but a breeder that has bought a good dog to breed from