CockersOnline Forum
General => Introductions => Topic started by: pip1965 on January 15, 2009, 06:43:44 PM
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Hello I'm Pip and I am hoping that in the next few weeks we will have a cocker pup to join our family.This will be our first family dog although I owned a cocker as a child and have always wanted another so I'm ridiculously excited!
I could do with some advice though especially re testing,a local breeder (senior member of breed club)has a bitch which is expecting puppies in Feb I am keen because she is very local but the dogs are only tested in the BVA scheme and no hip tests .There are already several of her dogs local to me and we would be able to have plentty of contact with the puppy and they have never had any problems but I am nervous having read on all the guides including the breed club that it is best to go for puppies whose parents have been tested .
Alternatively we have a chance to be on the waiting list at another breeder who I know has supplied puppies to other COL posters ,they have been tested for PRA but I don't personally know any of the dogs .
What would people advise?
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Personally, I can't advise you but Im certain someone else will come along very soon ;)
Just wanted to say welcome to COL...its a great forum and you'll find all the answers to your questions. I have Chloe, black 8 month old working type and I don't know how I would have coped with her were it not for all the advice I've had on here.
Good luck in your choice
Is it a worker or show type you're after by the way? Just curious ;)
Sue
ps...Chloe wasn't tested for anything :embarassed: but I've subsequently heard that this is quite common with breeders of workers.
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I have been lurking on here for a while before joining and have become quite addicted to the pictures and the puppy board so I thought it was about time I joined!
We are looking for a show type,I am not bothered too much about colour,although I don't want a solid golden ,temperament more important.
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Have you asked the "senior member of the breed club" breeder why they haven't got the OptiGen tests done? Have they got a valid reason?
It's good that they do the BVA scheme, but really they should also have got the OptiGen testing done too.
The OptiGen test indicates whether a dog is clear from, affected or a carrier of progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) and is a one off test that doesn't need to be repeated.
The BVA scheme is a yearly test that indicates other eye abnormalities and the development of blindness via Glaucoma etc...
So that's why both tests are advised :blink:
I personally would be keen to go on the waiting list for the breeder who does OptiGen test. Maybe you should contact the people on COL who own pups from the PRA testing breeder and ask them lots of questions about temperament etc.. :D Also try and go to some shows where this breeders dogs will be so that you can see the dogs in the flesh ;)
Good luck!
Best wishes,
Mary xxx
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Hello I just wanted to add to Sue's welcome to COL. I have a 2 year old black worker called Molly :luv: I am sure you will get lots of advice. It might be worth posting under the 'looking for a puppy section'.
xxx
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Welcome to COL :D
It's v difficult to advise you as really it does come down to your decision which breeder you feel more comfortable with. Have you asked why the first breeder only does basic eye tests? Eye tests are better than nothing but they don't really tell you anything other than the dog being tested was clear at the time of the test - he/she could still be a carrier or even affected. In this day and age when the health of pedigree dogs has become such a hot issue, I would hope all breeders would be doing all they can to breed healthy Cockers using the new tools (not just DNA testing for PRA but also for the fatal kidney disease, FN) but of course there will always be some who don't feel they need to test for one reason or another (with older breeders, this can be down to distrust of new technology, not that that is a good excuse of course).
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Thanks Mary,
she said that she doesn't like the fact that it is a blood test and thinks that the annual test is better,two of her dogs live in our village and they seem lovely but I just didn't know ,also because she had her own puppies to sell and we are so local I didn't really get any advice about other breeders if you see what I mean.Oh dear I would hate to offend anyone.
P
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Welcome to the forum! I am the owner of a nine month old liver roan show-type called Brodie :luv:. Could you maybe take a trip to the second breeder, if it’s not too far, to get a bit of an idea of what their dogs are like?
Good luck in finding your puppy :D
Jenny xx
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Hello and welcome to COL.
I can't really advise, but can explain that I own a wonderful orange roan Cocker called William, who is nearly 5 years old, who may or may not be a carrier of PRA, or be affected by it, or be clear. His dad was tested when the DNA test became available in the UK and is a carrier, but William was already a few months old then. His mum wasn't DNA tested as she'd already had the litter by then and wasn't going to be bred from again.
So I have a dog whose PRA status is unknown but who could potentially be affected. So far I've chosen not to have him tested as there's nothing I can do to change his status and he's not used for breeding and never will be.
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but it does come to the front of my mind sometimes and I hate to think that he might go blind, although I know it's not an impossible situation as I had a very old Cocker who lost his sight to cataracts and he adapted well. But if William is affected it could start to take effect quite soon, while he is still young and lively.
If I ever have another Cocker in the future I will definitely make sure it comes from a breeder whose stock are DNA tested for PRA and FN. My personal opinion is that every breeder should make use of the testing now that it's available.
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she said that she doesn't like the fact that it is a blood test and thinks that the annual test is better
I don't think that that's a very good excuse :-\ A blood sample is not a traumatic thing to put a dog through in my opinion. The annual eye testing under the BVA system involves eye drops containing dye etc... so is just as "invasive" as a blood sample.
I think that she's just stuck her head in the sand which isn't really what a responsible breeder should be doing. I'm guessing that she doesn't test for FN if she's not happy about blood tests?
Try and get hold of the breeder who does do OptiGen and FN testing and arrange a visit to see all of their dogs. I'm sure that they will be thrilled that you're clued up on all of the relevant testing and also want to meet the dogs in the flesh before getting a puppy :blink:
Mary xxx
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Gosh I can't believe what a lot of helpful replies.I am hoping to visit the other breeder next week sometime ,it is not too far only 50 miles.Can you think of any other questions I should ask,I found the guide on here really helpful and also on the breed club site which was why her reply took me back a little .
Do most people register with a couple of breeders as we are still at the very early stage we do not know yet whether there will be in any puppies if you see what I mean.
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I believe that most people contact at least a couple of breeders and put their names down on a list for a pup. Although I'd advise that you only put your name down for a pup if you're happy about the breeder, their set up, health tests etc... There's nothing to stop you changing your mind at a later stage and most breeders will understand that you will want to find the best pup for you and that that's not necessarily a pup from them. However, do inform the breeder asap if you decide that you don't want a pup from them. After the pups are born generally a breeder will ask for a deposit from you to secure the pup of your choice.
Hope that this helps :D
Best wishes,
Mary xxx
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Questions to ask would be: (aside from health testing)
Why did you decide to breed this litter?
What were the reasons for pairing your bitch with this particular stud?
What show prizes have your dogs won?
What types of homes have your puppies from previous litters gone to? How are all those puppies doing? Are any of them winning in any shows?
How often do you worm your puppies?
Do you give the first vaccination for the pups before they go to their new homes?
Where do you rear the puppies?
Do you start toilet training the pups before they leave for their new homes?
What food do you feed them?
Do the pups come into contact with lots of different people and animals?
Would you be happy to show me how to properly maintain my show puppy's coat once it is old enough?
Would you be happy to advise me on showing if my puppy's good enough?
Basically have a really good in depth chat about their whole set up, after sales puppy help, their reasons for breeding, what they breed for etc....
Make sure you ask to see certificates or other evidence of current health tests etc...
Good luck!
Mary xxx
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Thank you so much for that ,realy helpful to have as many tips as possible you have been so helpful and I will keep you posted!
Pip
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she said that she doesn't like the fact that it is a blood test and thinks that the annual test is better
I don't think that that's a very good excuse :-\ A blood sample is not a traumatic thing to put a dog through in my opinion. The annual eye testing under the BVA system involves eye drops containing dye etc... so is just as "invasive" as a blood sample.
Absolutely and a blood test is not essential anyway as cheek swab samples are now also accepted (there's nothing invasive about a cheek swab sample). If this breeder really thinks the eye test is better, they definitely are behind the times and don't understand the limitations of the eye test.
Good luck anyway Pip - hope you find the right breeder for you very soon :D
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P.s. I am not bothered too much about colour,although I don't want a solid golden ,temperament more important. we have a lovely golden boy who thinks he is more hooman than dog... rage is pretty much bred out now so very rare to find, make sure you meet mum (and hopefully dad) and you should get a better idea of temperament.... just make sure to let the right puppy pick you and you will be owned for life ;)
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Definately go for a breeder who optigen tests. The breeder who doesnt want to put her dogs through a blood test but is quite happy to potentially be breeding pups who will go blind in the future seems to be defeating the object really- what a stupid excuse >:D
I disagree though about putting your name on lots of breeders lists. Go and check out lots of breeders but when you find one that you are happy with then only go onto their list.If you find a breeder that ticks all your boxes then its worth waiting for imo.
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Simon and Mandy,its not that I don't want a golden because of rage its to do with sentimental reasons and a dog I knew as a child.I am confident that rage is pretty much a thing of the past as long of course as you stick to reputable breeder.Your dog sounds gorgeous !
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hello and welcome - good luck with your search