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Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: turbobert on June 27, 2009, 09:50:26 AM

Title: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 27, 2009, 09:50:26 AM
Our chap is exasperating.  We have to put him in his crate everytime we go out of the room - even for a few minutes as he finds things to chew up - opens the bin and empties it etc .  Last night he 'destroyed' the box, cover and DVD loaned to us by a friend that was accidentally left within his grasp.  Apart from shouting at him - he knows we are angry as he runs and hides in his crate - any other ideas?.  Will he definitely grow out of it.......pleeeez
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Helen on June 27, 2009, 09:53:07 AM
no point in shouting at him, I doubt whether he is associating his destruction with being told off and this will just confuse him and you will only create further behavioural problems with him.

What do you feed him?

How much and what exercise is he getting?
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: mum2milly on June 27, 2009, 10:15:38 AM

Milly went through a bit of a destroyer phase around the same time. Books, the kids shoes,DVD boxes (& the occasional disk!) almost anything and everything she could lay her paws on was seen as fair game. Most scary was when she chewed the plug clean off the OH's laptop lead  ph34r  how dangerous?!  :o
I used to dred returning to the house if we'd been out, wondering what would have been shredded.
I didn't want to have to crate her everytime we went out, so I made a real effort looking at the rooms where she had access in Milly's eyes, and would remove anything from the "danger zone" before we went out. Bit like kidproofing the house again! Its something she's grown out of (thank goodness), don't know if the chewing was perhaps a teething issue?
Hardest thing was reeducating my tribe to not leave anything 'precious' within reach.  ::)

Jo & Milly x
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Mudmagnets on June 27, 2009, 10:34:19 AM
Yep, Katie was the same up to a couple of months ago, anything and everything was fair game, including clothes  >:D.

It has got a lot better (but my no means perfect) and now she is safer to leave since celebrating her 1st birthday. (I just shut off the main sitting room and they seem fine together)

It is hard to remember to put everything out of range - you don't always think do you?? Smudge was not a destroyer in his early months  :angel: , so I forgot sometimes that I could not trust madam Katie  >:D .
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Nicola on June 27, 2009, 02:35:00 PM
As Helen said shouting at him is not the way to go, he's not running and hiding in his crate because he knows he's done anything wrong, he's doing it because he's scared of you and that's not really the kind of relationship you want to build with your dog. If you catch him in the act a simple sharp 'ah ah!' and then distracting him with a more appropriate chew toy is sufficient. They can go through a second teething stage although at 11 months he should be coming out of that now, it can definitely contribute though.

Rodaidh couldn't be trusted to be left uncrated if I went out until he was around 18 months old. Sometimes he'd be ok and other times he would chew something, his particular predilection was electrical cables so I erred on the side of caution and crated him with a Kong or other chewy toy when I went out. Does he have access to appropriate toys that he can play with when you leave the room? If he has too much energy and this is his way of burning it off then you could look at his exercise levels and at maybe doing some clicker training or similar with him, this really occupies their minds and tires them out so they're less likely to look for mischief when left to their own devices.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 27, 2009, 03:39:49 PM
Hello - we live in the country and he is outside for much of the day as I do the horses etc - so it isnt lack of exercise.  He is hyperactive though and finds it hard to relax even when he is really tired.  He doesnt destroy anything when I am with him - only when I leave the room for a few minutes so it may be associated with stress perhaps.

Livercake he is on Puppy Royal Canin at present and looks fantastic on it - I dont think it is his food although I am going to reduce him to more 'bog standard' dog food ie the same as the other dogs have when this bag is finished .

I never catch him 'in the act' as he stops when I appear so it is difficult to show him my displeasure.   He is never smacked but he is obviously upset when I shout at him...sadly doesnt seem to associate this with his misdemeanour.  I suppose from what you all say he should get better in a few weeks/months....
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Helen on June 27, 2009, 03:56:25 PM
although he's out all day so gets physical exercise he needs mental stimulation too - clicker training, gun dog training etc will all take it out of him more than running off lead.

If he's hyper then I would always check the food and the additives in it - dogs do well on kibbles that don't have added junk in them so it's no issue changing it... ;)
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Karma on June 27, 2009, 04:48:16 PM

As others have said, there is no point shouting at him.... you said yourself he doesn't seem to associate being told off with his chewing - all he will associate is you coming back with being told off (which could actually increase his stress when left and lead to more chewing!).

Also agree with what Livercake says about mental stimulation... clicker training really tired Honey out far more than just running around...  ;)

Honey's chewing was definately at it's worst at around 11 months, though... this was the age when she destroyed our sofa bed, and had a little chew of the fireplace...  >:(
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 27, 2009, 06:31:42 PM
I dont do clicker training but do do the usual sit, stay, wait, come, fetch, through, etc - not daily - infrequently - maybe I should do more - but it means shutting the other dogs in which I prefer not to do... Royal Canin is supposed to be the best food you can get - so I dont think it is that.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Helen on June 27, 2009, 07:17:48 PM
maybe I should do more - but it means shutting the other dogs in which I prefer not to do... Royal Canin is supposed to be the best food you can get - so I dont think it is that.

yes, you should be training him more and separately - I know you chose a working cocker from strong working lines so he will need stimulation and training.

Who said Royal Canin is the best food?  Royal Canin?  :lol2:  I disagree and I think you'll find a lot of other people do too  ;)
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 27, 2009, 08:15:37 PM
Everyone I spoke to recommended Royal Canin - I havent heard of anyone who doesnt recommend it.  Why dont you like it - and which do you recommend and why?

We have had working cockers before - but never one as hyper as this one!
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: JennyBee on June 27, 2009, 08:17:53 PM
Everyone I spoke to recommended Royal Canin - I havent heard of anyone who doesnt recommend it.  Why dont you like it - and which do you recommend and why?

We have had working cockers before - but never one as hyper as this one!

The ones usually recommended on here are Arden Grange, Burns and James Wellbeloved - can't remember if there are any others.... Brodie's on JWB and loves it :D
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 28, 2009, 09:05:39 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but of those mentioned JWB is made by Royal Canin I think - so are some of the others dog foods.  I spoke to two of three reputable breeders before we got this pup and they all recommended Royal Canin - so I am rather puzzled by what you say.  Ill get to the end of this sack and review the position maybe by checking what is in them all.  He will be over a year by then so I will probably put him on to what the others get which is Superbowl by Feedmork.  They love and do well on it...and half the price :) 

Thanks for your help - maybe Ill hope he'll grow out of it - it seems to be a form of separation anxiety...
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: PennyB on June 28, 2009, 09:55:51 AM
Who said Royal Canin is the best food?  Royal Canin?  :lol2:  I disagree and I think you'll find a lot of other people do too  ;)

Plus he probably should be on adult food now not puppy food

Also even though they are out running around they may not be stimulating their brains as much as they should be - exercise is as much mental for some dogs as it shuld be physical. I stimulate mine with training games.

A working cocker that works would be out and about a lot but will also be stimulated with gundog training exercises.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: JennyBee on June 28, 2009, 11:56:25 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but of those mentioned JWB is made by Royal Canin I think - so are some of the others dog foods.  I spoke to two of three reputable breeders before we got this pup and they all recommended Royal Canin - so I am rather puzzled by what you say.  Ill get to the end of this sack and review the position maybe by checking what is in them all.  He will be over a year by then so I will probably put him on to what the others get which is Superbowl by Feedmork.  They love and do well on it...and half the price :) 

Thanks for your help - maybe Ill hope he'll grow out of it - it seems to be a form of separation anxiety...

It's not who owns them that's important but what's inside the bag that counts IMO - James Wellbeloved has no additives, artificial colours or preservatives, is hypoallergenic and uses good ingredients. It is what I was looking for to give Brodie, although in the future I am planning to move her on to a part raw diet :D
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 28, 2009, 10:20:54 PM
I was advised by RC to continue using their puppy range until he is 12 months old when he should be nearly full grown.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: jann on June 28, 2009, 10:37:14 PM
Hello - we live in the country and he is outside for much of the day as I do the horses etc - so it isnt lack of exercise.  He is hyperactive though and finds it hard to relax even when he is really tired.  He doesnt destroy anything when I am with him - only when I leave the room for a few minutes so it may be associated with stress perhaps.

Livercake he is on Puppy Royal Canin at present and looks fantastic on it - I dont think it is his food although I am going to reduce him to more 'bog standard' dog food ie the same as the other dogs have when this bag is finished .
I never catch him 'in the act' as he stops when I appear so it is difficult to show him my displeasure.   He is never smacked but he is obviously upset when I shout at him...sadly doesnt seem to associate this with his misdemeanour.  I suppose from what you all say he should get better in a few weeks/months....

 :huh: If as you say you never catch him in the act,  how can you expect him to associate your shouting with his 'misdemeanour'  :huh:




 
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 29, 2009, 01:43:51 PM
That 's why I asked for help!  I have had dogs (including working cockers) for very many years but never one as hyper as this. He has plenty of exercise and very good food (I have been told -  the best - although others clearly disagree).  I problem is that when I leave the room (he is with our other two older dogs) He gets into destructive mode.

I asked for ideas as to how to resolve this - I do of course appreciate that being cross with him when I come back to havoc isnt the answer even though he does seem to appear as if he knows what he has done.  Any other ideas???  Maybe I just have to hope he grows out of it!
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Karma on June 29, 2009, 02:02:51 PM

You have been given some suggestions which you seem to be disregarding...

Increased Mental Stimulation is a key tool... if he is mentally tired he is less likely to turn destructive...
Also, make sure he has plenty of things he can chew... kongs/treat balls etc can all help too.

Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Nicola on June 29, 2009, 02:33:34 PM

You have been given some suggestions which you seem to be disregarding...

Increased Mental Stimulation is a key tool... if he is mentally tired he is less likely to turn destructive...
Also, make sure he has plenty of things he can chew... kongs/treat balls etc can all help too.

These really are your best suggestions that have been made several times on the thread.

Also, you really do need to forget this...

he does seem to appear as if he knows what he has done.

He has no idea 'what he's done', all he knows is that you've just reappeared after being away for a while and you're shouting at him - he has absolutely no idea why. When you're angry your body language will be screaming displeasure to him - dogs are amazing at picking up things we never notice in ourselves. Any cowed or seemingly 'penitent' behaviour he shows is simply to appease you to try to make you stop being angry with him, not because he actually knows why you're angry.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: MuffinsMum on June 29, 2009, 02:53:08 PM
Since puppyhood when we go out we leave Muffin shut in the kitchen where she is not able to get at anything we do not want her to have.  Plus I leave her with a few things she is allowed to chew, such as stuffed Kongs (filled with breakfast, some carrot or a Milky Bone, (there are some excellent threads on stuffing Kongs)), DentaKongs, raw hide chews or a whole carrot.  Sometimes I hide these around the room.  She also has a selection of soft toys, I don't think she plays with these  ;) but she likes to run around with one in her mouth when we get back home.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 29, 2009, 03:34:21 PM
Sorry if I appear frustrated but the things suggested are already in place!  He has dozens of toys - Kongs, chewing rings etc and his 'brothers' for company.  He has constant stimulation during the day - outside or inside with my husband or myself (we are very doggy and now both retired).  No he doesnt do gundog training but two of three times a week he does obedience work in our field - he is really trainable and very bright.  So...it is when he is left he seems to get stressed and destructive - apart for taking him to the loo/ bath etc I am 'stuck'.  I will be doing more puppy activity classes with him the autumn - maybe that will help.  I will also check there is nothing in his diet that might be causing the problem - I have emailed RC.

Thanks everyone - I dont mean to be ungrateful ..I am just at a loss what else to do!
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: JennyBee on June 29, 2009, 06:32:23 PM
When Brodie was younger I used to put her in her crate or in the kitchen whenever I had to leave her for any length of time. It was inconvenient but it meant she wasn’t able to chew anything (i.e. the coffee table >:D) when I wasn’t there :D

If he is getting so stressed when you leave the room I wonder if he maybe has separation anxiety? I have no experience of this but maybe someone will be able to say if this could be what's wrong x
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 29, 2009, 10:57:33 PM
Yes jennybee - he is absolutely fine if I put him in his crate and I can continue to do this - but I would like to think that one day he can be left for 5/10 mins with the others without wreeking havoc :).  I do think it  is separtion anxiety in fact.  I have known this among horses  but not in dogs - or at least not quite so acutely.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: JennyBee on June 30, 2009, 11:47:35 AM
Yes jennybee - he is absolutely fine if I put him in his crate and I can continue to do this - but I would like to think that one day he can be left for 5/10 mins with the others without wreeking havoc :).

I know, I used to think the same :P. She did learn to settle eventually. I'm not sure how you would deal with him if it was separation anxiety though :-\. You could try giving him Rescue Remedy or Emergency Essence to try and relieve his stress a little.... I've had some good results with DAP products as well :D
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: ronnyboy on June 30, 2009, 12:41:20 PM
Sorry if I appear frustrated but the things suggested are already in place!  He has dozens of toys - Kongs, chewing rings etc and his 'brothers' for company.  He has constant stimulation during the day - outside or inside with my husband or myself (we are very doggy and now both retired).  No he doesnt do gundog training but two of three times a week he does obedience work in our field - he is really trainable and very bright.  So...it is when he is left he seems to get stressed and destructive - apart for taking him to the loo/ bath etc I am 'stuck'.  I will be doing more puppy activity classes with him the autumn - maybe that will help.  I will also check there is nothing in his diet that might be causing the problem - I have emailed RC.

Thanks everyone - I dont mean to be ungrateful ..I am just at a loss what else to do!

Hey look I'm no expert, I got my first cocker just a couple of months back and he's now 4 months....

But you are frustrating me now!

You said on your 3rd post on this thread that you do BASIC obedience-type training INFREQUENTLY

People on here are telling you to do more training, mental stimulation, using a clicker etc...  Now as I say I'm no expert and I've got tough times to come as well I'm sure.  But I do perhaps 2/3 sessions of 10-15 of full on training (keeping it fun of course not regimental style) every day!  Now I'm not trying to be holier than thou about that, but if you want help and my opinion that's the very minimum of what you need to be doing with a working cocker...

If I didn't do this I know that mine would be going crazy around the place.

I'll also add that being outside all day doesn't mean a thing.  Your dog needs the stimulation of going out on proper walks with you, not just out and about, pottering around all day as that won't help with the behaviour problems one bit.

As I say, I'm on my first cocker, 1st puppy, 1st dog in my adult life - you've clearly got tons more experience than me, so shoot me down if you want to - however reading your posts I can see why you're having problems.  You really do need to listen up to what you're being told - more training, more structure, more stimulation etc etc...

Oh and good luck of course!! ;)
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Helen on June 30, 2009, 04:01:40 PM
Sorry if I appear frustrated but the things suggested are already in place!  He has dozens of toys - Kongs, chewing rings etc and his 'brothers' for company.  He has constant stimulation during the day - outside or inside with my husband or myself (we are very doggy and now both retired).  No he doesnt do gundog training but two of three times a week he does obedience work in our field - he is really trainable and very bright.  So...it is when he is left he seems to get stressed and destructive - apart for taking him to the loo/ bath etc I am 'stuck'.  I will be doing more puppy activity classes with him the autumn - maybe that will help.  I will also check there is nothing in his diet that might be causing the problem - I have emailed RC.

Thanks everyone - I dont mean to be ungrateful ..I am just at a loss what else to do!

Hey look I'm no expert, I got my first cocker just a couple of months back and he's now 4 months....

But you are frustrating me now!

You said on your 3rd post on this thread that you do BASIC obedience-type training INFREQUENTLY

People on here are telling you to do more training, mental stimulation, using a clicker etc...  Now as I say I'm no expert and I've got tough times to come as well I'm sure.  But I do perhaps 2/3 sessions of 10-15 of full on training (keeping it fun of course not regimental style) every day!  Now I'm not trying to be holier than thou about that, but if you want help and my opinion that's the very minimum of what you need to be doing with a working cocker...

If I didn't do this I know that mine would be going crazy around the place.

I'll also add that being outside all day doesn't mean a thing.  Your dog needs the stimulation of going out on proper walks with you, not just out and about, pottering around all day as that won't help with the behaviour problems one bit.

As I say, I'm on my first cocker, 1st puppy, 1st dog in my adult life - you've clearly got tons more experience than me, so shoot me down if you want to - however reading your posts I can see why you're having problems.  You really do need to listen up to what you're being told - more training, more structure, more stimulation etc etc...

Oh and good luck of course!! ;)

Ronnyboy, I'm with you here  ;)
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: bracken on June 30, 2009, 04:20:16 PM
My cocker Bailey(show) was a big destroyer and also had a few behaviour problems until she turned 15 months then suddenly she stopped, she is now 4 and is fairly good most of the time. Sometimes you do see a huge difference just with maturity  :luv:
Mine are fed on JWB and always have been it is produced by Pedigree. My vet recommends Royal Canin and my friends dogs are fed on it they have beautiful glossy coats  :blink:
Good luck with your cocker I hope things improve soon  :blink:

jo
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on June 30, 2009, 08:55:12 PM
Royal Canin is fabulous .  His coat is glossy and he is very well and I dont really want to change save to move up to 'adult' at a year.

Personally I think 2/3 times a day 'training' is rather a lot for a 4 month old pup!  It depends what you are doing though I suppose.  My chap is quite advanced in his obedience training - by 'infrequently' I would say I work with him one to one for about 20 mins  a week .

My frustration has been caused as so few people really addressed my problem IMO as it is certainly not the quality of his food or lack of exercise.  Frredom to play and run around has to be so much better and more natural  than work on a lead all the time!  Thanks Bracken I think you hit the nail on the head.  It is probably his age and he will improve with time.  I am re-enrolling for agility classes in the Autumn as he absolutely loves it and is very trainable.  Gun dog training would be pointless though as I am too old to 'beat' and cannot afford a gun!

I have now obtained a break down of what is in his puppy food as against adult food.  I am advised that he should stay on puppy food for the moment but as soon as I am satisfied he has stopped growing I will change him to adult food which is much lower in digestible protein and oil.  Although he still needs high protein/oil food for growth it could well be giving him too much energy!

Thanks again - no intention to offend.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Nicola on June 30, 2009, 09:11:00 PM
I just got Caoimhe at the weekend, she's just over 5 months old and I'm doing short training sessions with her 6 times per day. I keep them short and fun with plenty of play and she's thriving on the stimulation and bonding really closely with me. She is settled and content in the house even at her age because she's getting plenty of stimulation. I do a bare minimum of 10-15 minutes training every day with all my dogs no matter what age they are or level of training they're at. Twenty minutes per week really is very little, I don't think I'd be able to teach them anything in such a short time :-\   My dogs never have lead walks but nor do I just leave them to pooter around of their own devices all the time on our walks, I interact with them and this keeps them stimulated and makes for happy dogs at home. Quality of exercise is just as important as quantity. You also don't actually have to go on shoots to do a bit of gundog training, it is after all what working Cockers are bred to do and is far from 'pointless' to them.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Karma on June 30, 2009, 09:17:16 PM
Sorry, but 2/3 times a day training for a 4 month old is perfect.... you should really only do training in short bursts, as it is mentally tiring... so 5-10 minutes 2-3 times a day is great...

Honey doesn't have a high working drive, but we do more than 20 mins of training a week... and obedience training doens't have to be boring and stuck on a lead...  ::) We do leg weaves, figure of eights, various tricks (bang, shut the drawer, get the post, knock over a table, hit the "that was easy button", pray etc etc), obedience stuff (heelwork, retrieves, stays, presents), agility stuff (either using equipment for jumps, weaves etc, or just following a hand guide to improve handling).  And at 11 months we were doing more than we do now... every walk was a training session (loose lead walking, recall, down at a distance etc).  She certainly also got plenty of time to run around, play and explore, but training really tires her out far more than just running around does... If I ever had a short lunch break at home (less than 1/2 hr) I would do a clicker training session rather than a play in the garden, as I knew she would be more settled following the brain work...

Oh... and you don't need to actually go out on shoots to do gundog training... while I think Honey is perfectly happy with the level of stimulation she gets, I have enquired about a gundog training class to be able to have more fun with her while out and about... I have no intention of ever going anywhere near a shoot (no offence to those that do, but it's just not my cup of tea) but that doesn't mean I should deny Honey the opportunity to have a go at developing the skills that are used in gundog work - even if the only practical application she gets is us being able to direct her should she lose her tennis ball in the long grass....  ;)  I don't know if anything will come of the enquiry, but at least I'm willing to look into the idea...
We also do formal obedience training and agility lessons.

Yes - at 11 months, he is at the age where he may well be at his most destructive, but unless you meet his need for mental stimulation, the destructiveness may develop into a habit which he won't grow out of.  

I hope I'm wrong, I really do... Honey is my first dog, so I by no means know everything... but I think even now she would be climbing the walls if she only had 20 minutes of training a week - especially if she was running around all the time (I find she needs a little bit of brain work to calm down after a lot of running around in unstructured fun...).

Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: Harveypops on June 30, 2009, 09:29:22 PM
Just going back to the destructive element (I'm rubbish with analysing food- this comes from a girl who's staple diet is made by Walkers and Cadburys), I'd keep using the crate.

I do trust Harvey, and he doesn't use the crate at night, and I happily leave him free in the house if I'm popping out for a couple of mins. HOWEVER, I'm still skeptical how he'd cope alone if left longer. He's got a really annoying/endearing habit of nudging his toys under the coffee table. I'm worried that if he does this unattended he may eat my coffee table to get to it  :005:

So, at the moment, to avoid an upset owner and dog he's crated when left. I guess dogs are like people, and some are a little more cheeky than others. Harvey's 90% angel, but I want him to mature a little more before I give him the run of my house.

Good luck. I can imagine it being tricky trying to fit loads of training in a multiple dog house hold, but I do think upping the anti with it may help as it seems to knacker out my little monkey. ;) I do pretty much what Karma has mentioned, although we're yet to start agility as he's still to young.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: sharonmansfield on June 30, 2009, 09:59:55 PM
Hiya,
I can appreciate your frustrations and everyone on here is lovely and just trying to help, I only joined last week and have learned loads so here is what I did with my pup Bella as she was a big chewer and off her head most of the time, anything she could get too was fair game and cost me a fortune as my husband kept leaving his leather shoes lying around. She was also very energetic and hyper and reduced me to tears on more than one occasion. One night we were watching TV and the burglar alarm went off I looked at the panel and it was the tamper light that was lit up, we then found she had eaten the wire which was glued along the skirting board, she has also eaten the speaker wire on many occasions from the surround sound on the TV, Makeup, hairbrushes, tv remote and there are teeth marks in the coffee table where she obviously tried it but did not like it, she has not eaten any furniture luckily. She also chewed the wire on my husbands lap top, very scary!! Oh and not forgetting the christmas tree she would pull decorations off and chew them I ended up with 2 fireguards around it for the whole festive period - very pretty!!

Solutions that worked for me

Try a different food
I know you say you do not want to do this but whilst Royal Canin is a good food and I am not disputing that at all as my breeder recommended it for my dog I just found that at 5 months she was a very hyper, my mum suggested I changed her onto something else so reluctantly I chose James Wellbeloved and she seemed better behaved however she was a bit of a fussy eater so she now is on Burns which she loves and thrives on, I feed less than recommended but mix in some tinned butchers tripe. All puppys are different and what suits one may not suit another there could be an ingredient in his food that triggers this hyperactivity and you wont know this until you give him a trial on something else. Just try it for a week or so and see. It did make a difference for Bella.

Change Activity
Its lovely that your dog is out and about all day but running loose is not stimulating as its just back and forth He is obviously an intelligent pup and needs mental stimulation to wear him out rather than just physical exercise. On the bright side for you I did find it hard to wear out Bella but now she is a lazy pup she has totally grown through this stage. From around 15 months on she became a calm girl and is getting more and more lazy it must be said. he could chew through boredom or at this age he may still be teething.

Baby Gates
I installed a few of these, I did not want to crate her everytime I left the house so the kitchen, dining room and landing she has a free run of as its "dog Proofed" everywhere else has a baby gate so she cannot gain access but can see through. She has never chewed the furniture though just stuff on and around it.

Cardboard Boxes
This worked the best for her, she loved and still does cardboard boxes with treats in, just empty cereal packets and stuff with a dog treat wrapped in newspaper to make it more of a challenge, I often pop in a carrot too as she loves to chew these and they get a bit of a thrill from the crunch of it, they often crunch it up then go back and eat it later, I think the coldness helped them as I keep them in the fridge. Once i started to give he cardboard to shred I did find a drop in the amount of chewing elsewhere.

Kongs
You say he has Kongs but not sure what you put in them, I have used salmon paste, chicken roll and pack it tight so its an effort to get it out. You can even freeze them. My girls love this.

There is no point shouting as the deed is already done, prevention is the best thing ( but yes that is not easy like I say my husband kept leaving his stuff lying around then moaning when it got ate - whos fault is thatt ry and see your home from your pups eyes.

However on the positive side Bella calmed down from 8 months old, every month she became better, she has not chewed anything for ages but then maybe I don't give her the opportunity too but on saying that though as its hot I have all of the doors open and nothing in any room has been touched by her. My youngest at 15 months has never chewed anything she has been an angel  if ever there is a problem its always been Bella!!.

If you come up with any other ideas I would be interested to hear as I am always trying to think of new ways to keep them occupied.
Good luck, let me know how you get . How about a picture of the young offender
Sharon Bella and Jasmine
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: PennyB on June 30, 2009, 10:16:34 PM
Royal Canin is fabulous .  His coat is glossy and he is very well and I dont really want to change save to move up to 'adult' at a year.

Personally I think 2/3 times a day 'training' is rather a lot for a 4 month old pup!  It depends what you are doing though I suppose.  My chap is quite advanced in his obedience training - by 'infrequently' I would say I work with him one to one for about 20 mins  a week .

My frustration has been caused as so few people really addressed my problem IMO as it is certainly not the quality of his food or lack of exercise.  Frredom to play and run around has to be so much better and more natural  than work on a lead all the time!  Thanks Bracken I think you hit the nail on the head.  It is probably his age and he will improve with time.  I am re-enrolling for agility classes in the Autumn as he absolutely loves it and is very trainable.  Gun dog training would be pointless though as I am too old to 'beat' and cannot afford a gun!

I have now obtained a break down of what is in his puppy food as against adult food.  I am advised that he should stay on puppy food for the moment but as soon as I am satisfied he has stopped growing I will change him to adult food which is much lower in digestible protein and oil.  Although he still needs high protein/oil food for growth it could well be giving him too much energy!

Thanks again - no intention to offend.
As others suggest its about the type of training that gundog training is regardless of whether you shoot - many people to this and field trials without ever shooting or wanting to and even agility may not do it for him either. Its about different types of exercise - bright dogs don't just need running around to get them tired they also need stuff to stimulate their brains as well or they may go make up their own entertainment - the act of chewing stimulates the brain and can also act as a pacifier for those dogs that are stressed, eg through separation anxiety (and yes a dog can have SA in a room full of other dogs as its mor eoften than not human company they strive). Those that are replying have working cockers so often have an idea of the breed through experience - mine is through rescue as we're seeing more in rescue due to understimulation (we even have one in just now I believe ph34r).
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: PennyB on June 30, 2009, 10:20:14 PM

Kongs
You say he has Kongs but not sure what you put in them, I have used salmon paste, chicken roll and pack it tight so its an effort to get it out. You can even freeze them. My girls love this.

I used light cream cheese in mine and some of thier breakfast biscuits (ie they only get part of their breakfast or supper depending on when they get the kongs)

Also sometimes having all their toys around can make them complacent/bored as well - I put all of theirs in a box and just take one or two out at a time and just recycle them every so often.
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: sharonmansfield on July 01, 2009, 07:54:15 AM
Penny B I love your signature Cockers are just hooligans in cute clothing very funny and very true!!!
Title: Re: 11 month old 'destroyer'!
Post by: turbobert on July 01, 2009, 10:40:44 PM
Thank you all for your suggestions.  We have a rescue greyhound visiting us at present and our pup is so exhausted in the evenings rushing round with him he is a perfect angel!  So onward and upward as they say - I am fairly confident he will grow out of it and in a short time I will change him gradually to adult food with lower protein and oil and see what happens.  He is an absolute delight and we love him to bits - I just thought he would have become more sensible by now like our other cockers before him - I suspect he is brighter and more excitable and will always be that way.

I have looked into gundog training - there is a class about 30 miles from us.  It is expensive and I think not worthwhile - as I said before we  will rejoin the agility class in the autumn.