CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: blueroanlover on January 27, 2010, 01:02:21 PM
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I can safely say that I have never known such a manic pup as this one - and I have raised a few. Not Cockers although my partner has had Cockers and they were not like this.
Absolutely worn out. (Us not him!) He is 10 weeks old on Friday and I know he is just a baby. We have taken all advice to try and divert him away from biting us all the time and the furniture; thank goodness for the crate.
Advice varies depending who you speak to:
1) Say OUCH or NO... done that - no response, just bites harder.
2) Divert him with a dog toy and praise him for accepting it - he doesn't want to know.
3) Walk away, ignore him and deprive him of our attention - impossible as he is attached to our trouser leg most times!
4) Bite him back or to hurt him in some other way (!!) perhaps by pinching scruff of neck till he yelps. Didn't bite him but hated grabbing him by scruff of the neck till he yelped - within half an hour anyway he was retaliating by barking at us and growling. Don't blame him really. I support the reward based training rather than punishment but there you go.
5) Stuff a kong and divert him with that - tried it but he doesn't want to know that either.
6) When he gets uncontrollable to crate him and let hiim cool off. Yes it cools him off,he usually sleeps, but when he wakes and we let him out the same happens all over again.
The biting is constant - anything and everything he can get hold of but most of all us. Barks at us alot now when we say NO in a firm voice; we can get him to sit and then praise him ... but after a minute he gets up and launches himself back at us to start again.
It is impossible to look away and ignore him... those teeth hurt! And it has no effect if we praise him for being good when he accepts a dog toy - he just doesn't seem to take any notice, it's as if he doesn't know the difference between praise and NO - he certainly doesn't just want to please us!
I know he is only a baby and hope that it is normal puppy behaviour but have not known this type of extreme manic biting before in any dog and I have had a few.
We go to bed at night exhausted, me in tears; wondering have we got the pup from hell. We really don't know what else to try. It's early days I know that - but we must be doing something wrong - either that or he has something wrong with him!
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Awwww....I am not going to give you any advice because all the things you have tried are what I would have suggested but I do know what you are going through and it's real hard at times. My current puppy has so far been a text book baby and no problems at all :luv: but my previous cocker, Lucy was well >:D She tried the patience of a saint and when we hit the puppy training class managed to reduce the dog trainer to tears :005:That said she grew up to be the most loving gentle girlie so take a deep breath and hang in there x
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Sadly he is being normal. It will get better so hang in there.
Have you done a search of the puppy board for biting. You'll find lots of advice and people in the same boat.
My tips would be to keep a house line on him. He will savage it I expect but it makes it a bit easier to remove him when you need to.
I would also get a big soft toy, at least as big as he is and basically use it as a barrier between him and you. Every time he opens his mouth get the toy in there first. He'll eventually cotton on to the fact that he can play with the toy and its fun where as biting you results in end of game.
Remember that he won't understand no yet and that hurting him will cause him to lose all trust in you.
Gin and tonic and large glasses of wine are also useful at this stage :005: (for you not him!!)
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You could be describing my Tucker!! He's now 9 months old and, while it does get better, he is still a ferocious biter and chewer. We have tried EVERYTHING and the only thing that works is to put him in a "time out". We use a small lead and tie him in the kitchen for a few minutes. He hates going to time out and will nip and snarl on the way, but calms down once he's on his own. We go through this process many times a day! :lol2: I have talked to many, many others who say that this is something he will grow out of but it takes a while. Now, I just try to be patient and we give him lots of appropriate chews (stuffed animals and most dog toys do not last in our house!). Wine does wonders for keeping YOU calm! Also, cherish the calm moments.....they may seem few and far between but cockers are so sweet when when they're being loveable. :005:
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We've just gone through early puppy stages twice in quick succession - so I know exactly how you feel - and there were times along the way when I thought both my patience and my body wouldn't take the strain!
I'm guessing as your pup is only 10 weeks he's probably still "confined to barracks" until his jabs are effective? We did find with both of ours that once we could get them out into open space, running about etc etc even if only for short play periods they were physically tired and tended to give us a bit of breather!
Suddenly at around 4 months we noticed first one and then the other stopped the really painful nipping - so hopefully you will see the light at the end of the tunnel quite soon.
I'd reitterate the value of a sacrificial soft toy or two - we picked up some for next to nothing from charity shops and used them as our buffers - they did get savaged (RIP Big-Teddy! :005:) but at least we didn't!
Don't think you are doing anything wrong - or that there's anything wrong with him - he's just "being a puppy".
Trish XxxX
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I've nothing practical to add other than hang on in there, you're doing everything I did and more.... it will be worth it. But I know those early weeks can seem to go at a snails pace when things aren't going as well as you'd like... Get through them tho and you'll look back on it and not really smile, but maybe have an exasperated grin about it all :)
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Thank you all so much!
He has just dropped off to sleep... first nap today really outside of his crate and that was only for ten minutes.
I agree - a glass of wine helps!
Thanks for suggestions re a big cuddly toy - we shall get a couple! The houseline sounds a good idea too... we have a cat to persuade him not to chase as well.
Yes, he is still confined to barracks - not having second jab till a week on Sunday and then we can take him out 2 weeks after that. Which is only a few days before the puppy socialisation class we have booked him on. Will we last till then?? ;-)
We are determined not to hurt him - as you say, it will destroy his trust in us surely. It was the breeder who told us to do that; she is a good breeder and a lovely person but I cannot agree with that method of training.
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One thing I did find with Maggie when she was that age was taking her out for a walk with me in my coat... where she could just see what was going on etc, meet lots of people. Twenty minutes of that and fresh air and she was zonked! Don't know how practical that is with your little fella given his excitement levels and want to nip... but maybe worth a shot, he may be so distracted he doesn't try to bite :-\
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Thanks - as soon as this nasty rain and wind stops, I will be out there! Probably something to start doing tomorrow... great idea.... thanks.
One worry is that because he is so wild, his day consists of us saying NO to him, putting him in the crate to cool off etc., and not any quality time together, starting to do basic training.... or maybe it is too early to think of doing that. We have already taught him to sit on command but would like to teach the Down command and OFF for when he jumps up. At the moment though it is just a cycle of sleep and naughtiness, LOL!
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Never too early to start with the training and the mental strain of that will help tire him out as well. I'm a newbie to the site but I'm sure there are probably some good stickies out there with tips etc for when they're that young. :)
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It's just that he is so manic it is impossible to make him listen and respond! LOL!
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Hi
Hang in there...
Bracken is coming up for 15 weeks - and she was a holy terror >:D, and still has her moments - BUT they are becoming more infrequent
My hands are recovering nicely, thank you !!!
I tried all of the suggestions - and found the one that worked best was 'time out' - but instead of taking her to a 'time-out' place and having a few seconds delay - I walked out of the room we were in, and shut the door - 15 seconds later, one calm-ish puppy ;)
Once she could explore the world - it really helped... and of course, Puppy Classes, and now Training Classes plus every opportunity to keep her busy - games of fetch, asking her to wait every time she walked through a door
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Sounds encouraging then! LOL!
We have tried the 'leaving the room' bit but he just tries to scratch the door down so to save the paintwork, we open it again!
He is in the crate again now - having a cooling off period!
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Hiya, sorry to hear about your plight! I was there a couple of weeks ago and it is UNPLEASANT!!
If your pup is anything like ours was (completely beside himself hyper, even when clearly shattered) it might be worth changing his food? Bomber was on Pro Plan puppy and I changed to JamesWellBeloved (because I prefer the brand, NOT in the hope of seeing a behaviouraral change) and yet he is definitely calmer and his moods (silly, grumpy, tired, happy etc) are much more coherent than just a week or so ago, when his attitude was overbearingly bitey and nuts!.... Bomber is now 10.5 wks so I don' t think the change is simply down to 'growing up', although that would be nice :005:
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You know, I think we will try that. Do you know what the protein content in the Wellbeloved food is by any chance?
Your pup and ours seem very similar - completely hyper, bordering on aggression.
Thanks for any info you can give us on the food content.
PS Just looked it up on the net. I note it is mainly for dogs and cats with digestive probs., but maybe it would still be suitable for dogs who don't suffer from those?
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You know, I think we will try that. Do you know what the protein content in the Wellbeloved food is by any chance?
Your pup and ours seem very similar - completely hyper, bordering on aggression.
Thanks for any info you can give us on the food content.
No problems, I posted something very similar on here and got a lot of "it's normal behaviour" comments back, but Bomber, despite being very active, just didn't seem happy? He is now on the "Lamb and Rice" variety, the package states:
Ingredients: Lamb meat meal, rice, ground whole barley, potato protein, lamb fat, whole linseed, lamb gravy, sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, sodium chloride, natural seaweed, omega 3 oil supplement, chicory extract, lysine, calcium carbonate, DL methionine, yucca extract and threonine
Contains: min. 26% lamb, min. 26% rice, min. 14% barley
Typical Analysis: Protein 30%, Oil 15%, Fibre 3%, Ash 9%,
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What are you currently feeding him? Food can undoubtedly affect behaviour but along with that some puppies are just more full on and determined (i.e. bitey and persistent!) than others and he is still very young. With time, patience and consistency the vast majority do mature into normal, well-balanced adult dogs though. You're definitely not alone in this though, have a look at this recent thread and there are some more links to other similar threads on there too...
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=69001.0
I just re-read your first post and wanted to add that whatever you do do not go down the route of using aversive training methods like pinching, scruffing, biting(!), shouting, water sprays etc. This will only lead to more confrontation and make him distrustful of you, I think you've realised that yourself but unfortunately there are still a lot of people out there who will tell you that it's 'what you should do' ::)
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He sounds just like Willow was at that age, it does get better, hang in there.
It took many months for Willow to calm down, we got there in the end. I can honestly say, I didn't enjoy her as a pup :'( She didn't want to know as far as cuddles all she wanted was to bite and bite she did >:D Now though, she is very loving and calm. Good luck.
Sarah
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I am no expert but how about trying clicker training - it may focus his attention. Use really tasty treats that he will want to work hard for (I use small pieces of cooked chicken). Just short sessions of 2-3 minutes 3 or 4 times a day - as he picks it up, at least you will feel you are achieving something and he will be stimulated by it. There are lots of interactive toys out there (if you have a deep pocket) or how about hiding treats inside screwed up towels for him to ferret out. :blink:
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Great advice from lots of other members ;)
I don't think your puppy is any different from anyone else's. They will test you and push you to the limits. Your wee pup is still sooooo young, please don't expect too much :luv:
I'm not sure if this is relevant, but hope it will be helpful......my wee Chloe is 21 months, and walks beautifully on and off lead to heel in familiar places. Get her out to new places, and she's like a different dog. I took her up a mountain today, and thought she would be fine and not pull on the lead....oh, how wrong was I! She pulled like a train, cos she was in a completely different environment, and she can't generalise. I think this applies to all of the training we do with our dogs, we maybe think we've got it sused (whatever it might be) and then they go off the rails. Its just cos they need training in soooooo many different environments iyswim
Sorry for rambling....Im in apres ski birthday mood...in other words, a bit tipsy and gobby :shades: :005:
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Thanks for all the replies. You are most helpful.
We are feeding him on Purina Pro Plan Puppy food right now. That was recommended by his breeder.
We certainly won't use punishment based training; never believed in that... but yes we are at our wits end and as Clover says, we are not enjoying our new puppy... we had waited months for him to be born and ready for us, but now that we have him, his constant incessant biting (every waking minute) is just soooo wearing and exhausting for us.
We hope it will get better - we have to cling on to that hope - but at the moment like Clover said, we are not enjoying our new baby boy one iota. And that means we are not forming a bond with him, which is very worrying.
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yeah, that is worrying....I can't believe you are saying that you are not enjoying your pup one iota.....I'm sorry but that is completely beyond me ph34r
Every pup bites and has to be taught bite inhibition... I really hope that you won't give up on your pup because you have difficulty in training this most basic of lessons....sorry ph34r
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Hmmmm knowing what Brodie was like at that age, I think I can see where they're coming from. I couldn't go near her, she was a little terror and reduced me to tears several times :P. Clapping and cuddles and all the other joys of puppyhood were a no-go and it did have an effect on our bonding. But we both got over it and you know Sue how much I love my girl now :shades: :luv:.
I think you are just going through a very bad patch at the moment where you are wondering what on earth you've done bringing this little crocodile into your lives :005:. Just hang in there and stay calm around him - consistency is the key here ;). Things WILL get better, I promise you ;). It is a few weeks out of what are going to be years of joy.
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Thanks JennyBee - I know you understand where we are coming from even if Sue doesn't.
We are not novices at bringing up dogs, between us we have raised 9 of them and very successfully too.
We really appreciate the encouraging comments and replies on this thread... thank you so much.
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Hi, poor you it feels really frustrating when you are going through this, so just to reasure you if you are consistent in the messages you give it definately subsides. the suggestion about the big cuddly toy sounds good. I used to put Ginny on her leash and keep it short beside me, although ignoring her, I tried to stay calm and just sit till she calmed and then give her affection. Eventually....and it seemed to happen overnight.....the crocodile turned into a kissable cuddly pup!
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I do understand where you are coming from - Honey wasn't too bad a puppy, but there were plenty of times she reduced me to tears.
And certainly the first week we had her, my OH was home all week with her, and he was going stir crazy. :shades:
It can be a huge upheaval - as you say you spend weeks looking forward to your new arrival, and then all it brings is stress... Try and take the time when she is asleep just to look at her and remember the excitement you felt waiting for her to come home. With fair, consistent handling, the biting WILL reduce - it takes time, and there will be days when it doesn't look like anything is making any difference, but eventually it will! And then you will be able to catch up on all the cocker cuddles that aren't happening right now! :luv:
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Hello, i think every dog has a different personality, i was in a situation where after a relationship split i was dog less after owning two beautiful cocker's. Since September after two years without a dog and suffering grief for the dogs i had lost, i decided to take the plunge and start looking for another dog. I picked up Poppy a week before Christmas and i was so excited, when i got her home i was shocked at how hard it is to look after a puppy again like you i had a croc on my hands, i can't even remember the other dogs doing this! I was very worried! The other issue i had was house training i was obsessed with trying to get the dog out at all hours of the day and night to save accidents hence i had hardly any sleep, and i began to think i had made the wrong decision.
Well that was 5 weeks ago, now i have a fantastic little girl who has been clean in the house for two days, she goes into her crate when we go to bed and stays there without a fuss until 6-7 in the morning. She cuddles up on the sofa without hardly any biting, how did we do it? we just persisted in being firm but kind we directed her teeth onto toy, trow a ball to fetch and teach her basic commands, we occupied her with lots of games like find the treat, you have to remember this is a working dog (although ours is show type) who has lots of mental energy, since her second injection she has been out for short walks and this has helped not just the exercise but meeting new dogs and people and sniffing new smells.
I would stick with it if you want a dog in your life, but if you have made a mistake and not ready for the commitment now is the time to make a decision
Kind Regards and the best of luck
Julie
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blueroanlover, I have just re-read this thread, and I want to apologise for my comments last night. Not only was my ramblings about training in all sorts of different places completely irrelevant but to suggest that teaching a pup bite inhibition is the most basic of lessons, was very insensitive and somewhat arrogant of me. I wasn't really paying attention and all I could think about was the fact that you seemed so negative about your pup, when you've only had him a fortnight or so. I really hope that things will get better for you, I'm sure they will. You will get great advice on here, fortunately not everyone is as tactless as me (I blame the whisky ph34r :005:)
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Morgan was the most energetic and trying of pups, so I sympathise with your situation. OH's ankles bore the battle scars for quite some time, and family members sat with their feet tucked under them to avoid the crocodile. He often seemed manic too, overly excited and unstoppable! We had to move loads of things out of his way, obviously he didn't know that the hearth-rug, sofa throws, cushions, doormats, the books on the bottom shelf, our bodies, etc etc, weren't chew-toys ph34r
We'd never had a puppy with so much pent-up energy before (ignoring the visitors who said he was wilful :shades: ) there were days when we were so relieved it was time for bed :005: "Time out" was about the only thing that worked as he wanted to be with us so much, saying "Ow" when he nipped us didn't work at all in the early days, it just made him more excited, although after he'd been with us a few weeks he did start to realise that he was hurting us and has grown up with a superb bite inhibition. It was certainly hard work in those early days, he had 2 speeds, frenetic and asleep :005: When he was asleep we were wary of moving in case he woke up and started again! :lol2:
When he was (finally) able to go out, things got so much better, he had an outlet for some of his energy, his brain got tired assessing all the new things he'd seen. Time and persistence, being consistent in what you do will do the trick, it just seems never-ending at the time. He's a baby, he's got a little brain compared to ours and it takes time to assimilate and sort out what behaviour is expected. I look back on my human babies early years and remember how long it took to teach them to drink from a cup, eat without making a mess, potty training, dressing themselves etc. and it's very similar really! ;)
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I don't really have anything to add to what has been said and to what you are already doing - it sounds like you are experienced dog owners just needing a vent!!
Just wanted to say that I can sympthaise with the not bonding bit with your dog - when Ollie was a pup the first 2 weeks of having him were awful - I cried a lot and threatened to send him back!! i think when you have a testing pup, along with the lack of sleep it does make for grouchy parents!!!
Stick at it and I'm sure you already know it will be worth it in the long run!!!!
L&O x
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I can completely empathize with the way you feel. Having a puppy is HARD! Especially if you have landed yourself a croc, as we both have, by the sounds of it.
My boy is nearly 20 weeks (! where did that go?) and he is still a real biter. He never used to respond to squealing, but around Christmas time he began to take a little more notice and would stop for a split second. He has been really hard work, but has also given me many moments of complete joy when I see the hard work paying off, and when he has his occasional sleepy moments.
I have only actually cried once and that was on Christmas eve when he bit me harder than ever before and was a complete hyperactive monster. I would not give up on him though and the next day he seemed to have had a personality overhaul and was a genuine angel. The only thing I can think of that I had changed at that time was upping the clicker training. I clicked and rewarded everything I was pleased with him for, and taught him some tricks to focus his attention. I didn't expect it to have the effect that it did.
Since then, he has the odd "Angel Day" and is really improving but as I said, the biting is still a problem despite having quite a few of his adult teeth now. He doesn't bite furniture, just us! I was really determined from the beginning to teach him to mouth softly before teaching him not to to bite at all, so that as an adult he would have a safe "warning" bite if he ever got stepped on etc, but so far I have completely failed at this and am running out of time.
Hang in there, I think you will find your own rhythm and will start to see improvements soon. I'm convinced ours are especially exhausting puppies, but at the same time completely normal.
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blueroanlover, I have just re-read this thread, and I want to apologise for my comments last night. Not only was my ramblings about training in all sorts of different places completely irrelevant but to suggest that teaching a pup bite inhibition is the most basic of lessons, was very insensitive and somewhat arrogant of me. I wasn't really paying attention and all I could think about was the fact that you seemed so negative about your pup, when you've only had him a fortnight or so. I really hope that things will get better for you, I'm sure they will. You will get great advice on here, fortunately not everyone is as tactless as me (I blame the whisky ph34r :005:)
Hi Sue - no problem - apology accepted...
After a hard day puppy dealings I myself retreat with a whisky! LOL!
Thanks for writing again - much appreciated. :D
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Thanks you guys - you are keeping us going here LOL!
I have now found that because we have taught him to sit, when he is biting we repeat that and he immediately stops biting and sits... waiting for a treat! So perhaps we have reached a break through stage and will be able to build on that.
Thanks to ALL of you for taking the time to explain your own experiences, it makes us realise we may not have the dog from hell (been looking for the three 6's on his head!) and things will improve. We will definitely try the treat training - and try and find the clicker we have somewhere. Even without that we can treat train and maybe building on the SIT we can move mountains! LOL!
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The best advice I ever got when going through this stage was to wear a pair of wellies in the house, it stops u getting hurt and they dont flap about and look as attractive for little teeth (at really manic times u might want a pair of gardening gloves too :005: )
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LOL!! Thanks! I may invest in a pair and get some gloves!
Little darling is crashed out asleep now looking like butter wouldn't melt....
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The fact that he will sit and pay attention to you when you're trying to distract him from biting is absolutely brilliant. The key is to get him focussed on something more interesting than biting, it can take time to find out what this might be, its different for each dog, but it sounds to me as if your little one, is happy to focus on you cos he knows he will get rewarded for that behaviour. If you've got a pup as responsive as that, then I would reckon clicker training would be great for you both. Good luck with him, I suppose I was really lucky with Chloe, she did hang off my pjs/trousers etc for a wee while, but it wasn't a massive problem. She only caused a bruise once, and just that once was enough for me to land up in tears, thinking I'd got the puppy from hell :D
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Glad you feel a bit more positive. Before you know it, you will look back and chuckle at what he put you through, I know I look at Willow now and think 'wow, were you really that naughty ! Good luck, and honestly, it will get better, maybe not overnight, but you will come through it, just be consistent and you will reap the rewards. :blink:
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Thanks Clover and SkySue
Hopefully we are building on something here. I will carry on with the training and let you know.
Next task is to stop him chasing the poor cat and terrifying her! That seems a tad more difficult though.
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- and try and find the clicker we have somewhere. Even without that we can treat train and maybe building on the SIT we can move mountains! LOL!
Top Barks suggested that you can use a command such as 'Yes' in place of a clicker - at least it is something you always have with you. Use the word when you would use the clicker. I have done it a little bit but intend to work on it more because, even though I bought 3 clickers off ebay at once, I lost one within days!!!!!
By the way, Freddie, nearly 15 weeks, has just this week started to take notice (sometimes!) when we shout "ow" if he bites/hangs off our clothes. I guess it is maybe 50% of the time? We have consistently given him time out behind a stair gate (or tried to) when he bites so it seems to be paying off.
And you are not alone in feeling you are not enjoying your puppy one iota. I felt like that until a couple of weeks ago, not just because of the biting but also because of the extra work, lack of sleep, problems with children and puppy, going back to work. I should have kept a diary to remind me if I ever felt like I would like another one!!!! :lol2:
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Really pleased your seeing some positives to balance the nipping etc... Keep up the great work :)
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Cheers Sheepscheeks and Maggie
It is certainly hard work and the way the cat is feeling doesn't make it any easier...
Thanks for all the advice though - another day of training commences!
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Just wanted to send hugs, I know how hard it is, Ben was a biter and our first pup and I didn't enjoy those first few weeks at all, it took ages to bond with him and I often thought 'what have i done...'
I had the idea pups were snuggly bundles of fluff and it came as a bit of a shock to have this manic, tearaway, biting thing in my house :005: and he wanted things all the time, like attention, going out for a wee, food and more attention ;) I just had no idea really what having a dog was going to be like and we didn't even have COL to let me know this was all normal.
To be honest it was a couple of months before I was completely smitten with Ben, but I found a good puppy class, read the Perfect Puppy and drank gallons of whiskey ph34r and got through it and you will too. It suddenly crept up on me how much I adored Ben and it all becomes worthwhile.
I hope you do stick with it - its all worth it in the end and it won't be long before you are on here consoling other people with new pups ;) COL really helps you to feel you are not on your own with a problem.
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Ben's Mum - thank you so much.
Well I've got the whisky; I think that's a start. LOL!
Like you say, I thought it would be like other pups I have had in the past (not Cockers) - a sunggly playful bundle... ok a few nips now and then but not something that is hyperactive and every waking moment wanting to take lumps out of us and our clothes!
We are also trying to get the cat to accept him but he chases her and she is terrified... another problem and our cat used to be a person cat, always with us in the same room - most time on our laps. Now she has to be kept in another room most of the time because he has to be with us. At 12, our little timid cat is not happy in her own home.
Neither are we come to that - but we hope that we will come thru it in the end.... COL is a great help.
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You could try a baby gate at the living room door. Periodically give your cat a break and put pup out. He'll still be able to see you but not get at you. Bit by bit the cat should relax and while I think pup will kick up a fuss the first few times he'll soon get used to it and settle.
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Hi There - I have Marco who is a 4 month old solid show type cocker we - he is getting much better but at about 10 weeks I had the week from hell with him - if you look at some of my old posts on puppies you will see what I mean!! LOL
Felt like I had made a massive mistake in getting him, I have had other dogs and as puppies they were never so nippy or just so hyper. I felt I spent all day yelling at him or at my son for getting him excited and the rest of the time clearing up after him and overall had a miserable exhausting week - the more I tried to stop him biting the more he went for me and growled and was an absolute pain. Then suddenly one morning he was just calmer so from that point I just stuck with all the good advice I had been given on here and stopped yelling and tapping noses ect and just tried to enjoy him dont get me wrong now and again we have an off day - but dont we all LOL
Hang on in there - once you get him out the cabin fever will stop and he will have a whole new world to discover
Debbie & Marco (AKA Lucifer)
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You could try a baby gate at the living room door. Periodically give your cat a break and put pup out. He'll still be able to see you but not get at you. Bit by bit the cat should relax and while I think pup will kick up a fuss the first few times he'll soon get used to it and settle.
Cheers, we have a baby gate on the computer room door because of the cables in here, primarily to keep him out of here, but we have ended up moving the cat and her litter and bed into here simply because she is so scared and he needds access to the back door for toilet training. Unfortunately poor cat cannot get over the gate or thru it so she must feel she is in jail!
We cannot put the gate on the living room door because we have a kitchen diner and if the pup is locked out of the living room he will go and chew the furniture... aagghh it is a logistical nightmare!
The thing is, the cat will only relax when he stops chasing her - we have to have him on the lead most times to stop that happening. The more he sees her the quicker (we thought) he would get used to her being there but it's not working yet.
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Hi There - I have Marco who is a 4 month old solid show type cocker we - he is getting much better but at about 10 weeks I had the week from hell with him - if you look at some of my old posts on puppies you will see what I mean!! LOL
Felt like I had made a massive mistake in getting him, I have had other dogs and as puppies they were never so nippy or just so hyper. I felt I spent all day yelling at him or at my son for getting him excited and the rest of the time clearing up after him and overall had a miserable exhausting week - the more I tried to stop him biting the more he went for me and growled and was an absolute pain. Then suddenly one morning he was just calmer so from that point I just stuck with all the good advice I had been given on here and stopped yelling and tapping noses ect and just tried to enjoy him dont get me wrong now and again we have an off day - but dont we all LOL
Hang on in there - once you get him out the cabin fever will stop and he will have a whole new world to discover
Debbie & Marco (AKA Lucifer)
thanks! I shall look forward to that magical day! Our pup barks and growls at us when we tell him 'no' or move him away from chewing our trouser legs etc... I don't think it is aggression, just answering back.
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You will get there with the cat as well... they might not end up sharing beds :) but they just need to sort out how to deal with each other. I've two, Tonic, who decided after three weeks of keeping out of Maggies way that he was going to reclaim his territory and literally stood his ground and showed her who was boss. Not in a vicious manner, he just pinned her head down with one paw, no claws and she understood... they play now, tho as Maggie has got bigger and is going through terrible teen stage I have to keep a closer eye on her. The other cat is much more timid and ran whenever she saw Maggie. But in the last few months ( so it did take quite a while ) will now be in the same room as her as long as Maggie keeps her distance. If she gets too close/boisterous then she might get a bit of a slap but 99% of the time Maggie respects the space the cat needs and through a consistent message understands not to chase her - long as I can get it out in time lol.....
Its hard I know - and I was petrified I would lose one of the cats in protest, but its the same as with the biting etc - patience, a consistent approach and time... he'll learn :)
Friday night! Whiskey!!!! :005:
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You will get there with the cat as well... they might not end up sharing beds :) but they just need to sort out how to deal with each other. I've two, Tonic, who decided after three weeks of keeping out of Maggies way that he was going to reclaim his territory and literally stood his ground and showed her who was boss. Not in a vicious manner, he just pinned her head down with one paw, no claws and she understood... they play now, tho as Maggie has got bigger and is going through terrible teen stage I have to keep a closer eye on her. The other cat is much more timid and ran whenever she saw Maggie. But in the last few months ( so it did take quite a while ) will now be in the same room as her as long as Maggie keeps her distance. If she gets too close/boisterous then she might get a bit of a slap but 99% of the time Maggie respects the space the cat needs and through a consistent message understands not to chase her - long as I can get it out in time lol.....
Its hard I know - and I was petrified I would lose one of the cats in protest, but its the same as with the biting etc - patience, a consistent approach and time... he'll learn :)
Friday night! Whiskey!!!! :005:
Oh I do hope so! How did you train Maggie that the cat was out of bounds though? I am trying to restrain the pup on the lead when the cat is around in the hope the two will get used to each other. Our cat is a very timid cat and very small, lightly built. She has lived with adult dogs all her life and usually been the one to tease THEM! But she doesn't defend herself and runs into a corner rather than on to the worktop or anything - duh!
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Initially she was on the lead and the time when they could see each other was short and sweet. When Maggie made a dive I'd just distract her with her favourite toy - tug toy on a rope, which also saved my fingers from a lot of nipping - and when she was calmer with her reaction I gave her some treats. It worked with Tonic really well and just meant the first off lead meeting if you like was when Tonic was ready. With Slim, because she was much more timid I did as far as possible try to keep Maggie out of her face until she had got used to the fact that Maggie was there. That took a lot more time and to this day Slim just stays out of her way unless I'm there, but it was known before Maggie's knee surgery for me to end up with all three of them on the bed with me overnight...
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ahhhh.... that's lovely..! Thanks for your advice - we are hoping that if we keep using the lead it will help the peace process along! LOL!
Thanks again - and thanks to everyone else too for being so informative and helpful. :D
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We have 2 cats, Marie and Poppy. Marie is the more cautious with Ginny , when she wanted to come into the house from outside I would pick up Ginny up (when she was younger) and then call her in....she stopped using the cat flap for a couple of weeks, she soon realised when I called her in I had the dog under control. I then progressed to having Ginny on a short lead and calling Marie in, eventually she started using the cat flap again. I would put Ginny on lead while the cats ate their breakfast and sit with her..again on lead....keeping her still...on my knee if i had to. She slowly realised that I expect her to sit in that spot and wait her turn for breakfast and not bother the cats, I can now keep her on that spot using word command. The cats now know they aren't going to come to any harm. Poppy is a different character to Marie and stood her ground within days and will now sometimes initiate play with Ginny. She is definately the boss; she commands the whicker chair that Ginny loves and Ginny won't attempt to oust her and last week lay in Ginny's bed ....Ginny looked a bit confused but didn't attempt to reclaim it :005: It is lovely when we are all relaxing in the living room, Marie on the back of the sofa, Poppy in the whicker chair and Ginny lying on the sofa :luv: :luv: I never expected them to be that relaxed in each others company, and I think the cold snowy weather has helped as they all want to be in the living room snuggled up...so don't give up hope!
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Hi, Iam collecting my new pup at the end of Feb, and am now wondering if i have done the right thing (only kidding)...lol I think I will be writing lots of posts.
You sound as if you are doing a great job keep up the good work.x
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We have 2 cats, Marie and Poppy. Marie is the more cautious with Ginny , when she wanted to come into the house from outside I would pick up Ginny up (when she was younger) and then call her in....she stopped using the cat flap for a couple of weeks, she soon realised when I called her in I had the dog under control. I then progressed to having Ginny on a short lead and calling Marie in, eventually she started using the cat flap again. I would put Ginny on lead while the cats ate their breakfast and sit with her..again on lead....keeping her still...on my knee if i had to. She slowly realised that I expect her to sit in that spot and wait her turn for breakfast and not bother the cats, I can now keep her on that spot using word command. The cats now know they aren't going to come to any harm. Poppy is a different character to Marie and stood her ground within days and will now sometimes initiate play with Ginny. She is definately the boss; she commands the whicker chair that Ginny loves and Ginny won't attempt to oust her and last week lay in Ginny's bed ....Ginny looked a bit confused but didn't attempt to reclaim it :005: It is lovely when we are all relaxing in the living room, Marie on the back of the sofa, Poppy in the whicker chair and Ginny lying on the sofa :luv: :luv: I never expected them to be that relaxed in each others company, and I think the cold snowy weather has helped as they all want to be in the living room snuggled up...so don't give up hope!
Many thanks - I have tried to pick the cat up and do stuff like that but she is really terrified and struggles like mad. She knows when the pup is in his crate though - and will walk past him now. Mind you we have problems coping with the pup from playbiting and manic behavious so I can't be surprised.
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Hi, Iam collecting my new pup at the end of Feb, and am now wondering if i have done the right thing (only kidding)...lol I think I will be writing lots of posts.
You sound as if you are doing a great job keep up the good work.x
At the moment it doesn't feel like it! LOL! Absolutely shattered, stressed and in tears with him but good luck with yours - I do hope you enjoy him!
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I've had similar with a GSD, just could never tire him out and when he came home he just whined and winged on something terrible. Partly, as well as training which I agree would tire him out mentally have you tried "Two Balling him?" ie thrown a ball or his play thing for him to fetch and when he comes back to you produce a second identical item, when he drops the first one for the second one throw the second one and repeat on his return with it, ie throw the first one again. They love it!!! running backwards and forwards not realising they are exhausting themselves. Simply, if he's too tired he'll not bother you and just want a nap or a rest
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Hi Bosso
Yes, we do that - he brings it back to us great... then won't drop it even for another one! He locks his jaws on it and growls like mad when we try and take it... or swop it for another toy! I agree withyou though, it is a great way to tire him out and stop him biting us all the time. He wants to play tug of war with everything though and we did read that was to be discouraged because it might encourage him to think he is the boss, if we cannot get the thing off him.
Onwards and upwards!
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Hi Blue Roan
My Woodstock is 5 months old and he's silly with giving the ball back. I tried today though getting him to sit and offering a training treat which he opens his mouth for and ball drops out ;) then big praise for "give" (which is what I ask him to do when trying to get ball).
Seemed to work after a few goes - might be worth a try.
Love your description - I think they're all manic.
B
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Hi Woodstock - LOL! Yes we did that too - it worked at first but now he just holds on to whatever he has in his mouth - challenging us all the time! That applies to when he has our clothing or fingers locked in his jaws as well, LOL!
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Hi Bosso
Yes, we do that - he brings it back to us great... then won't drop it even for another one! He locks his jaws on it and growls like mad when we try and take it... or swop it for another toy! I agree withyou though, it is a great way to tire him out and stop him biting us all the time. He wants to play tug of war with everything though and we did read that was to be discouraged because it might encourage him to think he is the boss, if we cannot get the thing off him.
Onwards and upwards!
Forget anything to do with him being the boss or challenging you - dominance theory is really out of date now ;). I really wouldn't try and take something from his mouth as you may end up with him guarding the object in question - you need to find a really tasty treat or something he sees as of higher value that he will happily swap the object for :D
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Yup - agree with JennyBee....
The trainers at our dog club now suggest letting the dog win most of the time, as it makes it more fun for the dog!!!
Tug does need to be controlled (We can get Honey to stop and wait for a command to continue playing), but it should be fun - losing all the time is no fun at all!!! :D We tend to play a tug/retrieve type game as well - we'll play tug for a bit, then I ask her to "Give", I throw it, she brings it back, and we start up tug again!
Honey is a nightmare for not giving up tennis balls though... and it is definately better not to force the issue. She will now hand them over as long as she feels she's in a safe environment, but won't if there is another dog around. I always have 2 balls (for agility lesson I have 3-4) and once she has one ball, all my interest is on the ball I have... if she's not interested in it, I make it more interesting (throwing it up and catching, bouncing it) - eventually she decides that the one I've got it where it's at and abandons the one she has!!! :005:
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I always find with Brodie that when she does 'win', she immediately brings the toy back to me so she can keep on playing :D. She also knows to 'leave it' when I tell her too. It's her favourite game in the whole world and I don't know how I'd have survived the puppy stage without it :005:
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Yup - Honey does a little victory lap then pushes it back in our hand!!! :005: :luv:
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Like Honey, Freddie loves tug/chew/attack and when he lets go (which he does eventually if I stop interacting with him) I throw the toy for him to bring back. If I don't throw it when he lets go he just brings it back on to my lap. He rarely plays with toys on his own (except his nylabone but even then he prefers some-one else to be in the room while he is chewing it). When I go to work I put toys in the kitchen and they are in exactly the same place when I come home. The only thing he's interested in when alone is a nice stuffed kong or a treat in a screwed up envelope or two inside a box or toilet roll so I have to keep saving loads of boxes etc!!! Another game he likes is find the sausage (even though we don't use sausage any more). I wrap some pieces of cooked chicken inside two old towels for him to get out - he is very good at it now but still enjoys it!
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Nothing much to add to what the others have said but sympathy as Charlie has periods of being the devil, the others were never as bad and I don't think that's forgetting what they were either...
As you have the logistics problem with a cooling off place, don't know whether you have space for a puppy pen somewhere(assuming that you don't want his crate to seem like punishment). I've found that if Charlie gets too hyper or annoying the others (dogs & cat) keeping a collar and long-line on him, I can guide him back to his pen(or another room)for a while until he calms down, really works for us. I'm not sure dogs can show remorse, but he comes back out a different dog and gradually the need to take him out is lessening - the look is enough.
I picked up a pen at a reasonable price on ebay, might be worth a try :-\
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I find when they have their manic period (its often roughly the same time each day) I will stand back and let them get some of it out their system (I keep an eye on them though) - I now have 2 happy puppies (both my new foster girls age 10 weeks) who are fast asleep.
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Cheers everyone thank you so much for your replies.
We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.
As for letting him run the manic phase off, it's not that he is running wild round the room, it's the fact that he is biting hell out of us all the time, incessantly; so much so that we cannot touch him, he won't listen to NO, and in the end we get so bitten that we have to carry him out to the crate and let him cool off there for a while. He usually then goes to sleep but when he comes out, it's back to the same biting situation.
We are wondering now about consulting a behaviourist to tell us where we are going wrong!
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We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.
Charlie only needs to be there a few minutes - doesn't need to be long, maybe 10 mins max
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We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.
Charlie only needs to be there a few minutes - doesn't need to be long, maybe 10 mins max
You find he calms down then do you? Do you also have a crate?
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One thing we have found really great for using up excess energy is to feed the puppy his meals in a pyramid. It takes 10 or 15 minutes really hard work for the puppy to get the kibble out, batting the pyramid with his paws and chasing it around. It makes a lot of noise on the wooden floor with the puppy barking at it but we think it has really helped.
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thanks for that, I will look out for one!
I have not seen him as bad as he is today - this is definitely the worst for sharp, sustained biting and manic behaviour no matter what toy I try and play with with him.
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We did think of a puppy pen but wondered about whether the isolation would do him any good - in addition to the time he spends in his crate.
Charlie only needs to be there a few minutes - doesn't need to be long, maybe 10 mins max
You find he calms down then do you? Do you also have a crate?
He doesn't use the crate much now (he's 8 months old and the only time the crates used is at shows - where despite all the noise and activity, he's as good as gold)
He's most likely to be put behind the baby gate in the conservatory and we remove ourselves from him..
I have not seen him as bad as he is today - this is definitely the worst for sharp, sustained biting and manic behaviour no matter what toy I try and play with with him.
Just a thought, what does he do if you stop playing with him and walk awy (totally ignore him) when he gets too much... Is he attention seeking and the more toys you bring out to play with, the more buzzed up he gets :-\
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Just a thought, what does he do if you stop playing with him and walk awy (totally ignore him) when he gets too much... Is he attention seeking and the more toys you bring out to play with, the more buzzed up he gets :-\
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If I stop playing and walk away he chases me and bites my legs/ankles/hangs on to trouser legs.... if I sit and ignore him, staring into space or something, he jumps up to bite my legs or arms, whatever he can get hold of.
I asked the breeder about what to do - apart from telling me to bite him back (!) and hurt him so he yelped (and therefore got the message, she said) she told me that walking away signified empowerment of the dog in that they assumed I was running away from them and they had won!
I have actually taken his squeaky toys off him now in case the squeaking was winding him up more; i.e. resembling the cries of prey. No difference. The only time he can be touched, stroked or cuddled is when he is very sleepy and then he is adorable!
Absolutely exhausted. He is in his crate now - it got too much to handle yet again. :'(
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I asked the breeder about what to do - apart from telling me to bite him back (!) and hurt him so he yelped (and therefore got the message, she said) she told me that walking away signified empowerment of the dog in that they assumed I was running away from them and they had won!
What total nonsense!
Do you have a houseline for him? At the first sign of him getting overexcited and mouthing, I would lead him away using a houseline for a short time out. I know it seems never-ending at the moment but he is still learning. Brodie was the same, I couldn't touch her without her biting me. If I put my hand near her and she opened her mouth, then I removed my hand and folded my arms. Keep the petting until he is tired as, as you say, that is when he is least likely to mouth. You'll have plenty of time for petting and cuddles when he's learned some control :luv:.
He has very little impulse control at the moment so maybe it might be a good idea not to play any games that could make him over-excited. Have you tried clicker training? You could try some mind based games/training so you are mentally tiring him out instead of getting him physically excited. I didn't have a clicker when Brodie was young, but the person who ran her socialisation classes showed us some simple training (sit, down etc) which involved hand signals (keep your hands out of his reach though ;)), which she still remembers to this day :D. I know how hard it is so big hugs to you x
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ok - I've read 5 pages of this and people have offered you very very good advice (over and over again)- I'm not sure which bits you're following or not?
It seems that it's going around in circles and I think your best bet is to find a cocker savvy behaviourist sooner rather than later....
You possibly are over stimulating him and while everyone here is offering good advice they can't see what is actually happening in your house...which is where a good behaviourist comes in :D
If you post where in the country you are I'm sure we can pm you with details of behaviourists or trainers ;)
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We have taken all advice given and are gratefulf or it... some of it is workable some of it is not, purely for practical reasons and the layout of our small house.
We have already contacted a local behaviourist exactly for the reasons you state - a one to one session will hopefully work wonders on how best to deal with this problem. We do want to succeed with him and will try anything even if it costs.
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I'm really pleased to read that :D
When do you meet with the behaviourist?
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I also am pleased that you're getting someone in to help you...please make sure that they are a member of a professional organisation though. Anyone can set themselves up as a behaviourist - we have a guy here on Skye that has no qualifications whatsoever, and goes around spouting the dominance/pack theory and sees himself as a bit of a Ceasar Milan type guy. Those sort can do more damage than good.
Will look forward to hearing how you get on, and wish you the very best of luck with your little pup :D
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Thanks livercake and SkyeSue
I am still waiting to get a date for the behaviourist but she is local so it won't be long, hopefully within the next week!
We have kept him on a long flexilead tonight and he spent so much time biting that it let us have an evening without our limbs and clothes being shredded! He is now flat out in his bed.
Just love him when he looks like that!!
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Thanks livercake and SkyeSue
I am still waiting to get a date for the behaviourist but she is local so it won't be long, hopefully within the next week!
We have kept him on a long flexilead tonight and he spent so much time biting that it let us have an evening without our limbs and clothes being shredded! He is now flat out in his bed.
Just love him when he looks like that!!
may be use a houseline as they are useful
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Thanks PennyB - that was the thinking behind using the flexi lead - it does save us having to jump up all the time to pull him from awkward places! LOL!
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What's happened??
Today our pup has been an angel! Hardly any biting - just cuddles, licks, looking cute.... is this the same dog as the pup from hell yesterday?? Don't know what has happened - he hasn't had a lobotomy or we'd have noticed. ;)
Too early to count chickens but one can hope!!
It is the first day he has been good and not constantly biting since we got him 3 weeks ago.... it may start up again tomorrow but at least today we HOPE we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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blueroanlover...thats fantastic news, hang in there its all worth it :D
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Awww thats fantastic.... all the patience is paying off with the little fella :luv:
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What's happened??
Today our pup has been an angel! Hardly any biting - just cuddles, licks, looking cute.... is this the same dog as the pup from hell yesterday?? Don't know what has happened - he hasn't had a lobotomy or we'd have noticed. ;
Really pleased to hear this news :D
My friend was having problems with her two dogs constantly fighting with each other, one visit by a behaviourist at £25 and it was sorted! My friend was left with a strategy of how to cope.
Obviously this was a different problem to what you are experiencing but my friend was seriously thinking of rehoming one of her dogs as she was at the end of her tether but now it has been solved, money well spent.
Hope your behaviourist offers you good advice. Whilst you have been offered some really good advice by fellow COLers, it always helps to see the behaviour in situ.
Remember, there IS light at the end of the tunnel :luv:
We are all thinking of you :luv:
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PoppyPuppy, Maggie and Vixen - thanks alot for your messages!
We took him for his second jab today - so hopefully in a couple of weeks when we can take him out that too, will help things. Not heard back from the behaviourist yet - she must be on hols as she is usually very quick in replying. She also runs the puppy socialisation class we are booked on to, which starts at the end of this month and she is very good.
We will keep you updated with progress! And thanks once again to ALL who have taken the trouble to contact me with advice. It is a very supportive network here and I am glad I found it!
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Glad you've had a good day, long may it continue. Once you can get out walking and those puppy classes start he will have more things to stimulate him. Good luck, Sarah
ps. that means you'll have time to put some piccies of the boy on ;)
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:D
Where is the section for the piccies then? I have some I can put up now...
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glad youve seen a chink of light at the end of the tunnel; ginny just seemed to improve overnight to
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So Glad you have it sorted I will keep my fingers crossed for you, I collect my new puppy next Sunday we have decided to call him Selby, so I think I will be spending allot of time on here.....x well done for sticking at it
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I am so pleased this has all worked out for you!
I have silently been following this thread with interest as my first ever new cocker spaniel puppy will be coming in Summer 2010 so its a good insight of what to expect - I think a trip to majestic wine and a few cases is on the cards!
Amazing how supportive everyone has been and what good advice, I am so glad your little devil has turned a corner!
Great stuff!!!
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Thanks! That's exciting, I hope Selby settles in quickly - look forward to chatting to you!
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Hi well i think I am were you where a couple of weeks ago, I think he is just manic, but only on a night and its me he just wants to attach all the time unless i sit at the computer, so have to sit here to watch TV not much fun, just looked around and guess what he is fast asleep in the crate with the door open, but like you if I say NO he just barks at me so I stand up and turn around so I am not facing him so he bites my trousers I give him his ragger and try to distract him but no he just wants to attack me, you seem to have it sorted so I have the gin in one hand and the tonic in the other!! hic hic...lol and will just try to carry on. its costing me a fortune in hangover cures though. How is he now?
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Hi everyone and thanks to all who have replied since I last sent anything. I'd also like to say thanks for the PMs I have received.
Well... our little devil did turn a corner and then promptly went right back around it again!
He has had us in tears on more than one occasion...sheer frustration and exhaustion. We saw the behaviourist who was taken aback by the way he was... in view of the fact that all the recommended advice had not worked she drew up a few other things to try; the main one being just put him in the crate after a maximum of 5 minutes biting; we should not have to put up with more than that.
Anyway nothing has worked much at all; he is as bad as ever - the behaviourist even offered to have him for the day today free of charge, which we gladly accepted! Of course because he was in a strange house he didn't bite her much! LOL! So we were glad she had actually seen him in our own house so she didn't think we were exaggerating.
It seems that he is very bright; he knows now how to sit, lie, fetch.... and we have now been able to take him out properly and have even let him off the lead - he is marvellous, comes back every time we call.
So he is a bright dog but won't understand that he shouldn't bite. We were advised to give him as much exercise as possible bearing in mind he is only a baby yet and provide lots and lots of distractions to try and persuade him to chew and bite those instead.
Puppy socialisation classes start on Thursday with the same behaviourist/trainer; we are hoping that too will make a difference.
But for now - we still have a problem.. but hope to resolve it one day!! It is not a nice idea that we have to go thru his early months not enjoying his puppyhood; for us, that is the whole point of having a dog from a tender age... and no dog we have ever had before, have we been so flummoxed by (or so bitten by!!).
Thanks again for all your messages.
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I may be a bit late here, coming in near the end of the thread, but I wondered if you'd tried using water when he bites? Either from a small water pistol, or from a plant mister (set on more squirt than spray). Being a spaniel, he may of course just love it, but the shock *might* deter him.
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Really wouldn't recommend that.... aversives can make things worse - see the thread pinned at the top of the behaviour board.... :-\
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I may be a bit late here, coming in near the end of the thread, but I wondered if you'd tried using water when he bites? Either from a small water pistol, or from a plant mister (set on more squirt than spray). Being a spaniel, he may of course just love it, but the shock *might* deter him.
thanks for the idea, we had considered it but since even the word NO elicits a reliatory response from him, we thought it might not be a good idea...
We shall keep trying and will let you all know how it goes.
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I know you're having a tough time - keep up with the advise of the behaviourist tho and let us know how he gets on at puppy class - might be just the outlet he needs :luv:
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Doesn't sound like the behaviourist told you anything more than everyone on COL. What did he say about the fact that your puppy didn't display the same behaviour in his house? Did he think the biting was anything more than just puppy behaviour?
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Really wouldn't recommend that.... aversives can make things worse - see the thread pinned at the top of the behaviour board.... :-\
Thanks for pointing that out - I hadn't seen that.
I
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Avoiding highly coloured chews/treats etc. may help as well - we found these made Paddy hyper.
Lynne
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Doesn't sound like the behaviourist told you anything more than everyone on COL. What did he say about the fact that your puppy didn't display the same behaviour in his house? Did he think the biting was anything more than just puppy behaviour?
Hi, she said that it was simply because he was in a strange environment; there was another dog around and also a cat; plus lots of strange smells, different things to investigate etc. She thinks it is (cocker) puppy behavioiur, but to an extreme, whereby he doesn't respond at all to anything. So the only solution is to put him in the crate after 5 mins, leave him for a few minutes unless he goes to sleep and then get him out and try again.. and so on and so on...
She is a well thought of trainer/behaviourist and her view is that as he tends to retaliate against any form of instruction not to bite (and ignore any other things we try and distract him by) then crating is the only thing left for us to do... he is so bright in other ways and a joy to take out - it is strange that he doesn't respond to this problem really. But according to others on here, it is not unusual and could take a while for him to stop. Not a good prospect for us but we are sticking it out... trying not to get TOO exhausted and downhearted.
We would love to cuddle him, we cannot even brush him because unless he is sleepy, we can't get near him! LOL!
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I can truly understand how frustrating this is... at least you have the reassurance now that, while it is extreme, it is normal behaviour and not some flaw with your pup (or your interactions with him). :D
It WILL get better - and these horrid times will become a distant memory!
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Indeed! Hopefully it will disappear soon - in every other respect he is a great dog.
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I just wanted to note that Tucker is now one and we have noticed a major change in his behaviour lately. He is still crazy, still nippy, still a cocker but we are noticing more quiet moments in him. :005: Tucker is still battling some anxiety issues and we are working with our vet on that, but we are starting to notice less craziness and more normal dog behaviour. He is incredibly bright and needs a lot of stimulation. I have to wonder if that wasn't part of the problem. Our last cocker was so well-behaved and so loveable but not have as bright as Tucker is (I don't mean that in a bad way!). Tuck is just incredibly smart....perhaps too much for his (and our) own good. ;) We walk him a lot and need to spend more time on training as it seems to be what really keeps him on his good behaviour. He also knows "no bite" now which is a HUGE acheivement for him. Mind you, when he's playing it seems like his brain turns off completely at times and there are moments when he's got a hand in his mouth and we're yelling "no bite" where you can almost see him come out of his crazy world and realize what he's doing. >:D We never thought we'd make it through that first year and we're on the other side now and looking forward to the next, good and bad.
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I just wanted to note that Tucker is now one and we have noticed a major change in his behaviour lately. He is still crazy, still nippy, still a cocker but we are noticing more quiet moments in him. :005: Tucker is still battling some anxiety issues and we are working with our vet on that, but we are starting to notice less craziness and more normal dog behaviour. He is incredibly bright and needs a lot of stimulation. I have to wonder if that wasn't part of the problem. Our last cocker was so well-behaved and so loveable but not have as bright as Tucker is (I don't mean that in a bad way!). Tuck is just incredibly smart....perhaps too much for his (and our) own good. ;) We walk him a lot and need to spend more time on training as it seems to be what really keeps him on his good behaviour. He also knows "no bite" now which is a HUGE acheivement for him. Mind you, when he's playing it seems like his brain turns off completely at times and there are moments when he's got a hand in his mouth and we're yelling "no bite" where you can almost see him come out of his crazy world and realize what he's doing. >:D We never thought we'd make it through that first year and we're on the other side now and looking forward to the next, good and bad.
Sounds so much like Brodie! It took her months and months to learn not to mouth, it was so frustrating at times but we eventually came out the other side. Well done for all your hard work, it will be worth it!
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My boy was exactly the same :005: we tried all the usual things - the only thing that worked eventually was a cooling off time in his crate - just pick him up quietly once you have extracted him from whatever bit of you he is hanging from and quietly place him in his crate for his time out - true he attached himself to our trousers, shoe, sleeves or sweater as soon as he had had a sleep (he never touched skin only clothing) but it stopped after a few weeks of us being used as a tuggy toy :005: He is 26 months old now - still a lively boy but he's made a really nice dog - he has great bite inhibition and is a big softie.
Just hang on in there it will seem like you have the dog from hell for several weeks then you'll find it starts to settle down.
In the meantime it'd be worth having a look at the Ian Dunbar article on bite inhibition on here
;)