CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Welsh_Wizard on November 29, 2010, 11:11:19 AM
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I posted a while back about Nachos sleeping habits and I'm sorry (and tired) to say that haven't changed.
We are crate training and there is no doubt he likes his crate to sleep in. The issue arises when he is in there overnight - he will wake me up every 2hrs or so religiously. 95% of the time it is for a quick wee so I don't have that much of an issue if he is actually going but I find it hard to believe he needs the toilet so often at night when he doesn't throughout the day.
I have lifted his bowl at about 8pm to try and stem the tide but that has had zero effect in fairness.
Any suggestions or similar problems off anyone here? Due to him recently being really ill I've given him a bit of leeway to get over the drama but his staples come out this week and it's time to get back on the wagon per se!
Thanks in advance
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No advise but soooo pleased to hear that Nacho :luv: is up and about and over his drama :D
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hi there, glad Nacho is doing ok now.
Could you just tell me what you are feeding him on now, how much and at what times? (I am wondering if he's hungry and that that's what's waking him up).
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Hi
The vet has given us Hills Science Plan ID, canned meat variety and kibble. We are slowly weaning him off the meat and just onto the kibble. In terms of volume it's normally a table spoon of meat and a handful of kibble 4 times a day. This is probably still significantly less than the 3 meals he was having previously. I hunger can keep a dog awake, this could be my issue. We are back to the vets today to see about having his staples out so I will have a word about upping his food.
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Good Luck at the vet's today - and nice to know that Nacho is now well enough to be a little pain in the a**e :luv:
With regard to night-time weeing, I know that many other COL'ers disagree, but neither of my two have access to water overnight (and this included Louis after about 12 weeks of age when all he did was spread it around overnight) - they are both in crates and I don't have a clip-on water dish in either. I do make sure they are reminded to drink after their late pm meal (by running a fresh bowl of water which seems to be irresistable :D) and in the early evening again, but no water overnight. Neither of them are desperate for a drink in the mornings - in fact they tend to wait until after their morning walk and breakfast before going near the water bowl. Not sure if that would help?
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Sooooo glad Natcho is on the mend. :luv:
I don't know if this will help but it may be worth a try :shades:
When we first had Kez she was very "mardy", really terrible in her crate at night, we tried ignoring it for about a week, it didn't work, so we tried a "dummy" just like a baby & we have never looked back, infact she still has it at 8 months :005: (we may never wean her off it).
The dummy is a medium sized "Kong" with a small smear of peanut butter around the large opening. I stand it upright in the corner of her cage & that is it until 8 or 9 hours later. She does NOT have water in her cage, I just shut the door & switch off the light & say "night-night" Hope it works :bigarmhug: Julie
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Thanks for the ideas.
His meals are : brekkie between 0700 - 0900hrs
Lunch between 1200hrs -1400hrs
Dinner between 1700hrs - 1900hrs
He hasn't been getting any treats at the moment due to his stomach so his training regime has gone up in smoke an' all !
If we could just sort this night time issue out we'd have ironed out everything pretty much!
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When he wakes you what does he want? ...is it always a wee.
does he have toys in the crate?
So pleased he is well on the mend :luv:
The latest I feed my pup is 4.45 :blink: and she has brekkie at 6.30-7 :blink:
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His meals are : brekkie between 0700 - 0900hrs
Lunch between 1200hrs -1400hrs
Dinner between 1700hrs - 1900hrs
Just curious: how come there's a 2 hour variation in the timing of all his meals?
When Alfie was between 3-4 months old, he was waking very early (4-5am) for a poo. I spoke to my vet about it and she suggested bringing his last meal of the day FORWARD, so that his poo following that meal would have plenty of time to work its way out well before bedtime. Once we did that (we brought it forward to 6pm then to 5pm) he started sleeping in till 7am or even later.
So, he had his meals at 9am, 1pm and 5pm, plus a very small handful of kibble at bedtime.
Now, at 7 months, his meals are at 9am and 4pm, plus the bedtime kibble at 11pm. He sleeps through till at least 8am, sometimes 9 or 10am, if we haven't got up, and he has ALWAYS had water in his crate at night, in a little bolt-on bowl.
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The difference in times is simply down to our work patterns. When my OH and I are off, it's a stable routine however because I work continental shifts, sometimes it can get awkward.
Now the vet has given him the all clear for more volume of food hopefully the hunger issue will sort itself out.
For a dog that's 4 months old and 5kg how much would you suggest? I have thought about 150g all day. 3 x 40g portions then a handful for just when he is about to go to bed.
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The difference in times is simply down to our work patterns. When my OH and I are off, it's a stable routine however because I work continental shifts, sometimes it can get awkward.
Wherever possible, I'd suggest leaning towards the earlier time for Nacho's last meal of the day, and then taking him out for his evening walk at least 2 hours later than that.
For a dog that's 4 months old and 5kg how much would you suggest? I have thought about 150g all day. 3 x 40g portions then a handful for just when he is about to go to bed.
Is there no feeding guide on the Hills ID pack? (my initial thought would be that it is likely to be rather more than 150g, based on what Alfie was having at that age)
For the bedtime snack, I usually give no more than 20g.
If you're going to use his Hills kibble for training treats initially, remember to take them out of his daily allowance (once you decide on it) as well.
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So gald Nacho is well again :luv:
TBH I doubt whether he actually needs to go to the loo every 2 hours at night, it is probably more of a habit, maybe just checking you are still there :D I guess how you deal with that is up to you, and how much noise he makes, and how long you are prepared to listen to it :shades:
If the Hills food is that mousse stuff, when I had to give Lillie that after a bowel op when she was 14 months old she was starving all the time. :-\
My dogs all have a bonio at bed time, I find it really settles them - (youngest is 6 months)
FWIW my puppy is crated every night at 10.30, next to my older dogs, and she has never had access to water at night time - she is still alive and well :D
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Working it out exactly it's more like 170g so we are going to try 3 x 50g and a 20g treat at night.
We are also stopping sleeping on the settee with us now between evening meal and bed time. I wouldn't be surprised if he has slept all he needs too by the time bedtime arrives which is why he is so unsettled.
What do your dogs do in the evening when the family have relax time? Do they just curl up in a ball somewhere and sleep like mine? Or are they occupied right up until bed which makes them absolutely knackered?
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Mine get their tea at 4.45 and then just curl up on the sofa all night ..even my pup (6 months) then its out for a wee and their bedtime biscuit. Mine all sleep upstairs with us in their own beds too so they have no water until the morning either :luv:
I have never weighed my pups food really but i do weigh them weekly to check for progress..its only a guide really and all are different so if you think he needs more than stated just add it anyway :blink: My pup is 6 months now and weighs 9.3 kg :blink:
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Mine have tea at about 4 ish then maybe a few chews whilst I cook tea so by 6 they are chilled for the rest of the evening until bed time at 10.30. Teva my 6 month old pup needed a little convincing that this was a good thing to do as she wanted to
be a pain in the bum charge around the house until 9pm but has now seen the error of her ways and thinks chilling is fab :005:
Set a routine as much as you can and stick to it ;)
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Just one other thought - what bedding does he have in his crate, and is it covered up overnight? I found from quite early on that Alfie slept better with an extra fleecy blanket that I only put in his crate at bedtime (and then remove first thing the next day). He gets really excited when I get it out, bless him!
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We are also stopping sleeping on the settee with us now between evening meal and bed time. I wouldn't be surprised if he has slept all he needs too by the time bedtime arrives which is why he is so unsettled.
What time does he go out for his evening walk? Is that before or after your evening meal?
What do your dogs do in the evening when the family have relax time? Do they just curl up in a ball somewhere and sleep like mine? Or are they occupied right up until bed which makes them absolutely knackered?
Alf has his tea at 4pm, then comes outside with me while I feed and clean out the rabbits, then shut the chickens away for the night.
He often has a nap in his crate (his choice) after that, then mooches around waiting for his walk at around 7pm. When he comes in from his walk, he has a little biscuit, plays for a while, then settles down in his bed in the lounge while we are watching TV. He then dozes, plays, dozes etc until he goes outside for his final wee at around 11pm then he belts back to his crate, jumping up at it to show me that he wants his special blanket. :luv: I also then cover the crate completely, so that it's really snug. He then sleeps till earliest 8.00am, latest (if we're not up) 10.00am.
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I was thinking about your problem this evening. It does sound as if your little lad has maybe just got used to waking regularly through the night. He probably doesn't really need a wee, but just feels like a bit of company, and of course who can blame him for that. So if it is a habit, then to break the habit, change something - ideally something quite significant. How about moving his crate? Maybe up to your room?
We moved Jess's crate up to our room, and it really helped. If she stirred and started to squeak, I was right there and often just a word to her was enough, sleepytime now Jess, and she went back to sleep. And one thing that I know someone else has already mentioned, covering the crate helped us as well. I put a wool shawl over the crate, left the end with the door clear. Jess definitely likes it better.
You asked what do our dogs do in the evening - Jess sleeps, basically. She'll be awake and interested if anything is going on - visitors, cooking, eating - otherwise she'll be dozing on the sofa or in her downstairs crate. She's ready to go to sleep for the night by 9, but I do wake her and take her out for a last wee before we go up to bed.
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He had a good night in fairness last night. Put him to bed at 10.30pm and he slept till 5am which was work time anyway! Only difference being that we left the heating on all night so the room was lovely and toasty.
My only real concern was that he started to dry heave. He didn't bring up anything but just looked uncomfortable.
We'll have to see how the next few days are with the heating to see if that's the problem with the waking. I am at a loss at the sickness though :( not good :(
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My only real concern was that he started to dry heave. He didn't bring up anything but just looked uncomfortable.
I'd suggest you give the vet a call and let them know. Did the vet say what he thought had caused the swollen lymph nodes?
Glad you had a much better night. :D
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Spoke to the vet. He's going back tomorrow.
Not overly worried. He isn't in pain or discomfort, he just have a funny 5 minutes. The vet did mention when he was last worked which is 2 weeks overdue due to his operation. Can a bout of worms cause heaving like this? I do notice that he gently nips his bum chops on occasion but I put that down to basic scratching!
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Not overly worried. He isn't in pain or discomfort, he just have a funny 5 minutes. The vet did mention when he was last worked which is 2 weeks overdue due to his operation. Can a bout of worms cause heaving like this? I do notice that he gently nips his bum chops on occasion but I put that down to basic scratching!
When did you last worm him and with what?
If he's nibbling his bottom, could be that he has anal gland problems. It's worth mentioning it to the vet tomorrow.
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Between birth and 12 weeks he was given Shelly's Worming syrup by the breeder. When we got him to the vet on 14 weeks he had Milbelax or something similarly named. He hasn't been wormed since due to his operation.
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He had a good night in fairness last night. Put him to bed at 10.30pm and he slept till 5am which was work time anyway! Only difference being that we left the heating on all night so the room was lovely and toasty.
My only real concern was that he started to dry heave. He didn't bring up anything but just looked uncomfortable.
We'll have to see how the next few days are with the heating to see if that's the problem with the waking. I am at a loss at the sickness though :( not good :(
Indie dry heaves in the morning if she is hungry, I give both of mine fish biscuits when they go to bed as its a long time from tea time until breakfast time - hoping that its as simple as that and nothing to worry about.
With regards to the food, I don't weigh my pups food out as the guidelines are on the packet are just that, like Bracken said if he looks like hes still hungry after a meal then just add slightly more, you'll soon get to know how much he needs per day. Quinn is 5 months old and was over 10kg a couple of weeks ago. They all vary on size so you cannot compare how much food one pup needs to another even though they are the same breed and age IYSWIM.
Good luck at the vets tomorrow. :D
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Between birth and 12 weeks he was given Shelly's Worming syrup by the breeder. When we got him to the vet on 14 weeks he had Milbelax or something similarly named. He hasn't been wormed since due to his operation.
Millbemax would have covered him for a month, perhaps a bit more.
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With regards to the food, I don't weigh my pups food out as the guidelines are on the packet are just that, like Bracken said if he looks like hes still hungry after a meal then just add slightly more, you'll soon get to know how much he needs per day.
I fed Alfie like that for a while and he put on too much weight. He's just extremely food-oriented, so for him I do need to measure it out.
Otherwise he would just eat and eat, he's a real piggy!
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Ok at least the worming thing isn't that much of an issue and it is a relief to hear about your pup too Jeanette - maybe that was the cause? He hasn't had any issues since at all, isn't off his food and is cooking up some cracking little poops so I'm not overly bothered.
Can happily report too that for a second night in a row he hasn't woken me up at all. 10.30pm till 5.30am then 11.00pm till 06.10am. Unheard of! - the only difference? Leaving the heating on! :lol:
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Can happily report too that for a second night in a row he hasn't woken me up at all. 10.30pm till 5.30am then 11.00pm till 06.10am. Unheard of! - the only difference? Leaving the heating on! :lol:
That's great! I did wonder if he'd like a bit of extra warmth. What does he have in his crate?
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He sleeps on this large soft cushion that he easily fits on. That then has a fleece blanket on the top for extra warmth. The room he sleeps in is very crayfish mind so when the heating is off it isn't surprising he gets the shivers. Going to cost me a fortune in bills for the heating but you can't put a price on a lie-in !!!
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Do you cover his crate at night? Alfie's is covered over completely and it makes it really snug.
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No we don't although thats definitely a future plan - will go and get him a new fleece blanket!
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I can recommend this one - it's a great size (some of them come up quite small) and it's also quite thick:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180518735046&var=480003231042&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1749wt_905 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180518735046&var=480003231042&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1749wt_905)
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My Rosie wears a little fleecy nighty...please dont laugh (she is a tiny cocker ) I got it from Asda :blink: Its a little girls fleece top in pink and white aged 18 months....I cut the arms off and Rosie loves it :005: :luv: it keeps her nice and warm and stops her climbing into my bed at 4 in the morning :005:
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My Rosie wears a little fleecy nighty...please dont laugh (she is a tiny cocker ) I got it from Asda :blink: Its a little girls fleece top in pink and white aged 18 months....I cut the arms off and Rosie loves it :005: :luv: it keeps her nice and warm and stops her climbing into my bed at 4 in the morning :005:
We MUST see a picture!! :clapping: :banana:
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My Rosie wears a little fleecy nighty...please dont laugh (she is a tiny cocker ) I got it from Asda :blink: Its a little girls fleece top in pink and white aged 18 months....I cut the arms off and Rosie loves it :005: :luv: it keeps her nice and warm and stops her climbing into my bed at 4 in the morning :005:
We MUST see a picture!! :clapping: :banana:
Will get a piccy tonight :luv:
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(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg122/Bracken387/IMG_0437.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg122/Bracken387/IMG_0439.jpg)
There we go ... Rosie is a little confused putting her nightie on at 7.30 :005:
At £1.50 it was a bargain and she loves it :luv:
Jo
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Bless her!! :luv:
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Awww that pic is so cute. What a sweetie.
On another note, how many times are 17 week puppies meant to pee & poop per day?
Nacho is on his 4th poop today, all solid and well formed.
He must be on his 10th wee though. Tiny amount, about an eggcup but every 2hrs or so. Is that normal or excessive?
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Normal.
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My Lace is now 30 weeks old and still wee's alot but she has always just been properly twice aday :blink:
if all is solid i would say he is doing just fine :luv:
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I am starting to think Nacho has that separation anxiety issue as he still isn't settling down at night.
Heating is left on so he isn't cold. We have increased his food and incorporated a night snack so he isn't hungry. We are giving him 3 walks a day so he isn't hyper. We cover the crate at night and make sure he is ultra-snuggled in yet he still can't get through an entire night without crying. We have had him now for 5 weeks and I believe he has slept a night without disruption probably 5 times max.
When he does start to whine I get up to let him out then put him straight back to bed without any fuss.
I know you have to ignore him sometimes but his whining and barking is unbearable and I am worried about disturbing the neighbours. Also, I find that he goes so absolutely nuts he sometimes soils his crate - which he almost just did whilst I went over the shop for bread, a 10 minute excursion max!
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I apologise if you have already said this but where do you keep his crate at night time?
He is still very young and it might be worth letting him sleep in his crate in your bedroom until he is a little older :D
Only this last week have we stopped getting up to let my six month old pup out for a wee when she barked at night, as she would go out side and snuffle around in the garden for a while before she eventually had a tiny wee :shades:
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His crate is downstairs and we are obviously upstairs. I am really not sure about letting him upstairs because I think that as he gets older, we'll find it harder to break any habits. Things have got to change though, can't have another night like last night
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Moving Jess's crate upstairs was something that we had said we weren't going to do. We moved it up after advice from this forum and it did make a big improvement in her sleeping habits. She was still needing to go out in the garden just once quite early, say 5:30, but I just put her straight back in the crate and she went back to sleep again until getting up time - this is what was different. Before, she had been crying as soon as I put her back in the crate, and not settling, and I was up half the night with her.
She is not allowed upstairs at all during the day, just at bedtime, we have a stairgate. She finally started sleeping right through the night about two weeks ago when she was 7 months old. We are terrible softies though and let her go to sleep on our bed - when we wake up she is usually curled up in her crate.
Remember you can always move the crate to the door, then out on the landing, then down the stairs, when he is a bit older and more settled. The good thing about having the crate near you, when he is little, is that if he is just wanting a bit of reassurance then you are right there, and he won't get so wound up.
I hope you find something that works for you, with Nacho.
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Doing what you have suggested is literally the only thing we haven't tried now. We are both not fussed on the bedroom idea as as he seems to want attention, we just feel that he'll still whine but in the bedroom instead. However, another night of no sleep. Up at 2am and no settling despite every suggested remedy means that I'll try anything once!
Did you find that wee's and poops happened as usual when Jess was in your room? We have varnished floorboards in our bedroom which isn't likely to accept either too well! Did you just carry her downstairs and out the back?
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Did you every try the "dummy" (page 1 ). I'm sure it's worth a try & the puppy has a toy to chew on, that he can't distroy, in the cage if he wants it. Julie
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Yeah, he has a number of indestructible chew toys which he'll play with throughout the day. When you put the lock on the crate though, he ignores what toys he has and just goes barmy!
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My pup has slept upstairs since she arrived at 14 weeks she has never been to the toilet during the night...and I do carry them up and down the stairs even now and she is 7 months :blink:
Her last food is 4.30 and she has no water as there is none in my room to drink.
I really hope you guys manage to get a good nights sleep soon :luv:
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Yeah, he has a number of indestructible chew toys which he'll play with throughout the day. When you put the lock on the crate though, he ignores what toys he has and just goes barmy!
Could I just ask what you originally did to introduce him to the crate, and get him used to it? It might be an idea to start the process all over again.
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He has basically been put in the crate of an evening and left to his own devices. When he cries I let him out for a wee but then he quickly gets put back in the crate.
During the day I sometimes put him in the crate for some downtime which he seems to like because if we are in the room, he'll sleep. If we go to leave the room though he goes mad as if we aren't coming back.
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He has basically been put in the crate of an evening and left to his own devices. When he cries I let him out for a wee but then he quickly gets put back in the crate.
During the day I sometimes put him in the crate for some downtime which he seems to like because if we are in the room, he'll sleep. If we go to leave the room though he goes mad as if we aren't coming back.
Is that what you did originally to get him accustomed to and comfortable with (and loving) the crate? Is he put into the crate every evening, and for how long?
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Welsh_Wizard, we also had a pup crying downstairs in his crate all night and we successfully did the crate-to-bedroom-and then-push-crate slowly-out-of-the-door-routine. It took a few days to get him onto the landing and a few days more to shut the bedroom door on him completely. Like you, we were not keen to have the dog in the bedroom but it was only for a few days and at least we could sleep a bit. Having said that, he woke up for a wee once a night until he was about 6 months! But it was more tolerable than what you're going through right now!
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Doing what you have suggested is literally the only thing we haven't tried now. We are both not fussed on the bedroom idea as as he seems to want attention, we just feel that he'll still whine but in the bedroom instead. However, another night of no sleep. Up at 2am and no settling despite every suggested remedy means that I'll try anything once!
Did you find that wee's and poops happened as usual when Jess was in your room? We have varnished floorboards in our bedroom which isn't likely to accept either too well! Did you just carry her downstairs and out the back?
This is why we moved the crate - she was waking several times in the night and refusing to settle after being taken out for a wee. I was getting very short of sleep!
She's always quite liked the crate - we did all the things about making it a good place to be - giving her all her meals in there, and putting treats in there for her to find. But she just didn't want to be alone in it at night, she wanted to be with us.
When we first moved the crate upstairs, we carried on closing the crate door at bedtime just as we had been downstairs. So accidents weren't an issue. (Jess is older now - 7 1/2 months - and will come and wake me if she needs out in the night, so I can leave the crate door open. )
When I went up to bed, Jess came up with me, I put her in the crate and she settled straight away when she saw I was not going anywhere. My husband came up a bit later and I heard him talking to her as she had woken when he came up the stairs, she settled back to sleep again right away.
She did wake in the night a couple of times, at first - less than she had been when she was downstairs, definitely - but with crate upstairs it took just a word to her to see her settling back to sleep - unless she needed out, and I can tell when that's what she needs. Then I took her downstairs and out the back door - put on a slip lead to avoid exciting night-time expeditions exploring the garden! - and after she was done, straight back upstairs, in the crate, shut the door, sleepytime Jess, then me back to bed and lights out. She settled as she knew we were right there with her, I am sure.
Since then we've had exactly no trouble at all with her sleep habits.
I do sympathise with you over the lack of sleep, it is so awful, I remember it well!
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We took the plunge and put the crate upstairs last night and happy to report that between the hrs of 2300 and 0700 I didn't leave my warm bed once ha! Oh what a treat!
Nacho woke up a couple of times and whimpered but as soon as I gave him a reassuring word or two, he dozed back off. Great news for us and even the OH who was ultra-skeptic was very pleased (even though she didn't wake before anyways!)
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Glad it went well - was a bit chilly for excursions to the garden last night - so glad you stayed tucked up warm.
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Well done Nacho!
Hope this is the first step along the way of sorting it all out :D
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Fantastic news! :clapping: well done nacho :D
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So glad you had a good night's sleep!
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We took the plunge and put the crate upstairs last night and happy to report that between the hrs of 2300 and 0700 I didn't leave my warm bed once ha! Oh what a treat!
Nacho woke up a couple of times and whimpered but as soon as I gave him a reassuring word or two, he dozed back off. Great news for us and even the OH who was ultra-skeptic was very pleased (even though she didn't wake before anyways!)
Oh that is brilliant! :clapping: So glad it made the difference. I haven't been on the forum for a few days, but wanted to see how you got on so this is the first thread I've checked - what excellent news!
Isn't it wonderful to get 8 hours (fairly) uninterrupted sleep, though..... :003:
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Yeah we are both really chuffed. Day 3 of perfect sleep! He's got his toilet training sorted too so things are really good at the moment.
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Yeah we are both really chuffed. Day 3 of perfect sleep! He's got his toilet training sorted too so things are really good at the moment.
Really pleased for you all :luv:
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Thats great news, :D makes puppyhood much easier to cope with if you can get a good nights sleep :luv: Long may it continue!