Author Topic: 2nd fear stage, possibly?  (Read 1770 times)

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Offline Cassie01

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2nd fear stage, possibly?
« on: January 14, 2013, 06:20:31 PM »
Hi everyone,

On the whole the bedding in period with little Liesl (who joined us aged 6 months) has been mostly good. At home she’s is a dream (if a little bit clingy) in terms of love and affection and if I remained seated on the sofa all day she'd happily stay on my lap with the potential, when the fancy takes her, of licking me to death   

Her training is progressing slowly, she currently understands and responds to ‘sit’, ‘down’, ‘touch’, ‘bed’, ‘come’ and  ‘let’s go’. Her house training is a work in progress as is the crate training but all of these things are moving in the right direction. She’s also a very picky eater and has refused virtually all of my current supplies (which has made her training a little trickier) but again we’re beginning to find and introduce foods/treats that she seems to enjoy, so again it feels progressive.

However, one of my points of concern is that she seems to have become a little people wary. This is both outside and inside the home. Initially, she greeted everyone with gusto (quite a delicate and affectionate gusto) and she seemed to enjoy these interactions. However, recently all her encounters appear to be tentative and in some cases she'll back off altogether, attempting to hide or retreat!

At home last week my daughter's father was up - Liesl was not happy about this. She positioned herself on a footstool directly opposite him (rather than sitting with me or my daughter, which would have been the norm). If it doesn’t sound too exaggerated she almost spent the time eyeballing him. She did leave the stool and exit the room a couple of times, giving him a wide berth while simultaneously keeping him under close observation. On one re-entry to the room she definitely gave a very low growl when passing him!

We’ve had other people up at home and similarly Liesl doesn’t appear too keen, although no growling. My daughter’s boyfriend, a regular in our home, is also avoided.

When out and about she is also not as forthcoming as she once appeared to be when people approach. On the whole outside she seems distracted, edgy almost. If I try to gain her attention, call her name/offer a treat she’s almost oblivious or deaf to me.

She’s a sweetie and I do love her so very dearly all ready but our history is so short and I find myself guessing as to what the possible causality for each and every new situation is. I guess I’m just looking for an explanation for her newly acquired foibles.

I do understand that the transition to a busy city from a quiet kennel was always going to be an adjustment for her, and her continued responses to passing traffic still bear this out, but I am feeling a little anxious about this. Could it be the start of the documented 2nd fear stage or possibly her 1st season approaching?

Any advice/insights would be gratefully received

Offline Buzby

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 06:23:48 PM »
Have you tried getting our guests to hand feed her whilst avoiding eye contact?
It was in my puppy book  :005:
You are right though - the transition has to be tough and I guess it will take time and a lot of encouragement to gee her to trust other people

Offline Cassie01

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 06:30:39 PM »
Have you tried getting our guests to hand feed her whilst avoiding eye contact?
It was in my puppy book  :005:
You are right though - the transition has to be tough and I guess it will take time and a lot of encouragement to gee her to trust other people

Hi Buzby and thanks for response.

I did try of sorts.

When I realised that she wasn't too happy I asked her father not to look directly at Liesl and I gave him some treats to throw on the floor nearby. She just completely ignored them.

Not being particularly food motivated didn't really help though!

Offline Ruby Tuesday

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 06:40:31 PM »
Hi Cassie,

It sounds like it might be the 2nd fear stage, I usually refer to this chart

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/developmentalstages.html

and it fits with that.
Julie, Ruby and Jem. And never forgetting our first precious dog, Cassie x

Offline Cassie01

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 06:57:00 PM »
Hi Cassie,

It sounds like it might be the 2nd fear stage, I usually refer to this chart

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/developmentalstages.html

and it fits with that.

Hi J :-)
It was that chart (possibly gained from a previously post by you on CoL  :luv:) that made me think this maybe the case. I just get the feeling that I'm clutching at straws and it's too coincidental for this to occur so soon after her joining us - that or my lack of experience with dogs (a distinct possibility)?  It's possible that because our history is so limited and that I have not observed her earlier experiences I maybe accrediting more to her behaviour than I possibly otherwise would have. Dunno  :-\

I just hope that she'll be happy and confident and I guess want to nip anything that maybe an issue in the bud.

Thanks again for assisting  :luv:

Offline Ninasmum

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 07:01:39 PM »
Sorry to read this Cassie, its very early days for Leisl atm......i've never had a puppy that has lived in kennels but i can imagine that its very difficult for Leisl as everything is new to her, plus because she is that little older than an 8/9 wk old pup her brain has developed that bit more but she hasn't physically experienced the life that a younger puppy has.
Personally i would ask any visitors to throw her high value treats (with no eye contact whatsover) & just completely ignore her unless she makes a move towards the visitor.  If they do have physical contact with her, ask them to gently smooth her under her chin or on the chest, i think on the head area might be too 'threatening' (i know it would be with Nina).  Do not put her under any pressure to meet & greet unless she feels comfortable by making the contact first.  She maybe showing slight guarding tendencies towards you & your family as to her you are the centre of her world, which is heightened right now because of her previous life.  :shades:  Take things very, very slowly with her.  She could also be coming into season shortly which also means her hormone's will be all over the place, which could confuse her (i say this with experience of how Georgia was), it can be an upsetting/confusing time for them & on top of this if she is going through a fear stage, i can completely understand why she is reacting like this. 

I know you have said she isn't keen on her food but there must be some treats out there that could be of high value....mine love the veal sticks from zooplus, you could always cut them into smaller pieces or perhaps try tiny pieces of chicken  :-\

I hope that eventually everything settles down with Leisl, she sounds a little sweetie  :luv:
Hopefully there will be some more peep's along soon to give some better advice  :shades:  but i want you to know i'm thinking of you & sending lots of best wishes  :bigarmhug:


Nina, Jo Jo, Georgia & Alfie

Offline Ruby Tuesday

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 07:02:51 PM »
Well I'm not an expert but I would try to let her work things out in her own time, and hopefully she will be fine. Other than this, it sounds like she is doing great in such a short time with you.

If things don't improve, head to a training class, or get an expert to help you. Sometimes it is easier to spot things when you look in from the outside.

Have you tried making tuna bread or something more exciting as a treat? Mine love it, mind you they love anything  :005: x
Julie, Ruby and Jem. And never forgetting our first precious dog, Cassie x

Offline SophieBlueRoanLover

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 07:05:01 PM »
Let's see how she is with me tomorrow - she seemed okay with me yesterday, so hopefully it's not with everyone - I guess she might have missed that socialisation with men and people in uniform that's recommended (apparently dogs are naturally more wary of them). Henry's definitely been through that 2nd fear stage - is probably still in it - as he jumps at noises and vehicles a bit, when he never used to. Plus he is now scared of really weird things, like a cow (not real!) outside a butchers on the Fulham Road.  And that's from a dog that's been raised on a busy main road.

It must be very hard not knowing her background, but hopefully it's just part of her learning and adjusting, and she'll setlle in soon and get used to the hustle and bustle of London. Look forward to a play tomorrow - not going to let the weather stop us again!

Offline Lovely

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2nd fear stage possibly?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 07:36:34 PM »
I'm definitely no expert but one of the springers my ex had was from kennels where she'd never had much contact with women and it took her a while to work me out i guess we must smell very different. But she got there after a few weeks try not to worry too much i'm sure she will get there, she's so young, it must be sensory overload at the moment x
Ali

Offline Cassie01

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 09:16:04 PM »
Sorry to read this Cassie, its very early days for Leisl atm......i've never had a puppy that has lived in kennels but i can imagine that its very difficult for Leisl as everything is new to her, plus because she is that little older than an 8/9 wk old pup her brain has developed that bit more but she hasn't physically experienced the life that a younger puppy has.
Personally i would ask any visitors to throw her high value treats (with no eye contact whatsover) & just completely ignore her unless she makes a move towards the visitor.  If they do have physical contact with her, ask them to gently smooth her under her chin or on the chest, i think on the head area might be too 'threatening' (i know it would be with Nina).  Do not put her under any pressure to meet & greet unless she feels comfortable by making the contact first.  She maybe showing slight guarding tendencies towards you & your family as to her you are the centre of her world, which is heightened right now because of her previous life.  :shades:  Take things very, very slowly with her.  She could also be coming into season shortly which also means her hormone's will be all over the place, which could confuse her (i say this with experience of how Georgia was), it can be an upsetting/confusing time for them & on top of this if she is going through a fear stage, i can completely understand why she is reacting like this. 

I know you have said she isn't keen on her food but there must be some treats out there that could be of high value....mine love the veal sticks from zooplus, you could always cut them into smaller pieces or perhaps try tiny pieces of chicken  :-\

I hope that eventually everything settles down with Leisl, she sounds a little sweetie  :luv:
Hopefully there will be some more peep's along soon to give some better advice  :shades:  but i want you to know i'm thinking of you & sending lots of best wishes  :bigarmhug:

Thanks, W - your response just about sums it all up.

Yes, I'll definitely follow your advice re visitors (although non doggie peeps look at you as if you're mad when you make such requests, 'Don't look at my dog, please - she's having difficulty trying to settle in London!' - not that I care a jot) and I do hate the thought that she maybe under pressure coping with such change. But we'll continue with the softly softly approach and see if it helps.

I couldn't quite decipher, due to inexperience, whether or not her 1st season is approaching and if this could be a factor, but as you say and from the little reading I've done, it may well be the case.

I don't think we yet tried the veal sticks (will google in a mo) - she does like tripe sticks, though (she was fed green tripe at her breeders) but they honk and I really can't imagine not only attempting to cut them up but bringing them out with me :020:

Thanks (yet again) for your support and best wishes.
You're a star  :luv:

Offline Cassie01

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 09:21:57 PM »
Let's see how she is with me tomorrow - she seemed okay with me yesterday, so hopefully it's not with everyone - I guess she might have missed that socialisation with men and people in uniform that's recommended (apparently dogs are naturally more wary of them). Henry's definitely been through that 2nd fear stage - is probably still in it - as he jumps at noises and vehicles a bit, when he never used to. Plus he is now scared of really weird things, like a cow (not real!) outside a butchers on the Fulham Road.  And that's from a dog that's been raised on a busy main road.

It must be very hard not knowing her background, but hopefully it's just part of her learning and adjusting, and she'll setlle in soon and get used to the hustle and bustle of London. Look forward to a play tomorrow - not going to let the weather stop us again!


That made me laugh - Theis was petrified of that cast iron cow. I could never fathom it.

See you tomorrow, Sophie  :blink:



Offline Cassie01

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Re: 2nd fear stage possibly?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2013, 09:28:33 PM »
I'm definitely no expert but one of the springers my ex had was from kennels where she'd never had much contact with women and it took her a while to work me out i guess we must smell very different. But she got there after a few weeks try not to worry too much i'm sure she will get there, she's so young, it must be sensory overload at the moment x

Thanks, Lovely
Yes, I think sensory overload could well be at the heart of it. It's reassuring to hear that your friends dog adjusted after just a couple of weeks. Very optimistic to read :luv:

Thank you  :blink:

Offline Cassie01

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2013, 09:31:07 PM »

Have you tried making tuna bread or something more exciting as a treat? Mine love it, mind you they love anything  :005: x

That's a great idea - no I hadn't thought of it but I'm glad you did  :blink: I'll give it a bash tomorrow.

Offline KellyT

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2013, 09:43:00 PM »
you could try liver cake or peanut butter biscuits - very easy to make at home and my 3 go mad for both of them. Even hazel who was never very treat orientated.

I hope she re-settles down soon.  I'm not sure if Hazel has been through this period yet or not.  She's definitely got some weird habits recently - skulking around the dining room table and peering out at you when you talk to her sometimes  :huh: is just one of them!
Kelly & the 3 muskaspaniels x

Offline Ruby Tuesday

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Re: 2nd fear stage, possibly?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2013, 09:44:07 PM »
This is what I do, it takes 5 mins.

Mix a tin of tuna in oil with one egg, stir some flour in until the mixture is fairly stiff. Press it onto a plate to about 1 cm thick. Microwave on full for 4 mins. Cool then cut up (I use scissors).

Done!
Julie, Ruby and Jem. And never forgetting our first precious dog, Cassie x