Introduction and help please!

[LisaNewland]

Hello All

Myself and my partner, Mark, adopted Ember (now Amber) two and half weeks ago. We are delighted with her and she has settled quite well. I've put a few pics on the Photo thread under 'solids', as Amber is a beautiful gold colour.

99% of the time, Amber is wonderful and perfectly behaved in every way. She loves her long walks, is very affectionate with other dogs and people alike. However, in the evening, she changes; her mood is very different and she seems unsettled. She bit me last week when I tried to move her off a certain chair. Amber also seems very concerned about her toys in the evening, she whines and carries them around very gently, often hiding them. Any ideas about what could be troubling her? Once we go up to bed, she settles in her bed and sleeps well.

Amber is three years old and has been spayed.

Has anyone got any advice?

Thank you so much!

Lisa

[elaine.e]

Hi, I've just looked at your photos of Amber on your photo thread.

Carrying toys and whining isn't unusual, in fact there was a thread on here about it just a few days ago. My older Cocker has done it ever since he was a puppy and he's 9 now! He does it when his Retriever friend visits and sometimes he just does it. When he does I take the toy away from him and put it away. Seems to stop the stress straightaway and he relaxes. Maybe it's to do with some almost lost instinct from when their wild ancestors needed to hide or bury food to stop it from being stolen by other predators.

If Amber is reluctant to get off chairs and sofas you could try enticing her off with a nice treat and some words of encouragement and maybe try a houseline on her so you can use that gently too.

It's early days, so I expect Amber is still getting used to you and I've always found that if any of mine is ever going to have a naughty or hyper or silly time it tends to be during the evening

[panda66]

Could she be overtired and wanting to go to bed earlier  

[williamsmum]

At a guess,l I would say that she is probably overtired and a bit grouchy. May be an idea not to let her on the chairs for a while and see how it goes. None of mine are allowed on the furniture, and they know it's a big no-no, so maybe she is getting a bit above her status by being allowed up. It is down to you to call the shots, not her. I think Elaine is right, and she is maybe trying it out to see how far she can go.
As for carrying toys around, my Twiggy does that with things, but only at certain times of the year, and I have noticed that it is normally around the time when she would have had her season (she is spayed also). Twiggy does it with apples and walnuts in the garden, and woe betide anyone who dares to move them! She caught one of the chickens pecking at one of 'her' apples a few months ago, and chased it off down the garden! Early days yet, and you are all still finding your feet with each other. Give it time, and be consistent both with correcting her and giving praise when she has done well.

[LisaNewland]

Thanks, these are really helpful replies.

Last night, Amber was asleep in her own downstairs bed whilst we were shutting up for the night - usual thing; lights off, tv off etc. Mark leant above her to turn off a light and she snarled and growled at him, then sat up and continued to snarl and stare at him. We both backed off, gave her a few minutes, then quietly called her to us, she came, tail wagging, happy as ever. Is this behaviour usual? I think she was upset at being disturbed from her sleep, however, she was actually quite frightening when she sat up and continued to growl at us until we moved right away. I wonder if this will stop once she has been with us for longer and is more secure. she's already had two homes and a foster home, so I expect she finds it hard to believe that she is in her forever home. Bless her.

[JamiesGirl]

Thanks, these are really helpful replies.

Last night, Amber was asleep in her own downstairs bed whilst we were shutting up for the night - usual thing; lights off, tv off etc. Mark leant above her to turn off a light and she snarled and growled at him, then sat up and continued to snarl and stare at him. We both backed off, gave her a few minutes, then quietly called her to us, she came, tail wagging, happy as ever. Is this behaviour usual? I think she was upset at being disturbed from her sleep, however, she was actually quite frightening when she sat up and continued to growl at us until we moved right away. I wonder if this will stop once she has been with us for longer and is more secure. she's already had two homes and a foster home, so I expect she finds it hard to believe that she is in her forever home. Bless her.

Jamie doesn't take kindly to being leaned over, from a dogs point of view its an  extremely intimidating action and if she's already had a few different owners before yourselfs she's not going to have a bond with you as quickly as some other dogs. I think you actions after were spot on and the fact that she was happy to come over to you and was wagging her tail is brilliant. Growls are not aggression, growls are a dogs way of telling us they aren't happy. she wasn't happy that Mark leant over her and he listened to her and backed off

[Cockertime Blues]

Hi and welcome to COL.  You've all had your wee honeymoon that all rescues have, and now you're just getting used to each other.  It sounds like you're doing all the right things, i.e., backing off when she's worried about something.  Getting her off the couch with treats is the best way to go.  In time she'll learn to trust you that nothing bad will happen, and you'll learn what she can and can't cope with and will deal with it accordingly.  Lots of advice on here, and keep us posted.  She looks 

[williamsmum]

Lots of really good replies and advice, and I agree with everyone else, in that you are doing everything right. Give it time and I'm sure she will be fine. 

[LisaNewland]

Thanks again for your advice. Last night was a tough one. I gave Amber a bone late afternoon (after her dinner), she took it to her bed, chewed on it for a while then laid on it. She wouldn't move at all, for several hours and growled whenever we spoke to her. At bedtime, she wouldn't go in the garden for toilet and we couldn't even go near that side of the room without her growling very low and hard. So, we left the TV and lights on, rather than upset her further. Mark and I went up to bed and she didn't come upstairs with us, which she usually does. I laid awake for an hour or so, Amber came up, was her usual happy self but as soon as I directed her to her bed, she went back downstairs to the bone and continued as above when I came down to try and coax her back upstairs. I left  her there again and went back to bed. At about 4am, she woke us in her usual cheerful manner, jumping up, licking us etc., to be let out to the garden (she'd obviously missed her late night toilet as she refused to move!), but after weeing she still remained downstairs and didn't follow Mark up. At about 7.30am, Amber woke us as usual (kisses and cuddles), had breakfast, long walk in the park and is now behaving as if the bone doesn't exist anymore.

Should we remove it from her bed or leave it there? I want to get this right so as not to aggravate her further. It is still early days, we haven't had her for three weeks yet so I'm hoping this aggression might settle down, but if we need to be behaving in a certain way, please advise! I've always had male dogs and never come across this before, so it's a new on on me!

Thanks again for your support everyone.

Lisa and Mark

[Ben's mum]

It sounds like Amber is finding her feet with you at the moment.  We took on Harry who was 8 months and we were his 3rd family, and he came with a few little issues that started to come to light after he had been with us a few weeks.
Harry resource guards certain food and toys and for us the easiest answer was just not to give them to him.  Harry would guard a bone in the same way you describe Amber doing.  When we hadn't had him very long we put food out for the birds and Harry sat down the bottom of the garden for about 3 hours not letting us or Ben our other cocker go anywhere near him!! Eventually we bribed him with freshly cooked chicken to come into the house while OH ran down and picked the food all up.  I've never done that again 

Harry also hates being moved off of a chair, and yes in the early days we had plenty of bites as well, so I know how you feel.  If I want him to move I learnt to do something to get his attention e.g. opening the fridge door  or rustling a bit of paper, or saying in a high voice 'what's this' and he can' resist jumping down to see what I am doing.  I have to say after a few months that stopped being a problem and he will get off now if asked, and if he is having the occasional stroppy day which he still has, then I just do something silly to get him off easily.  Another trick that always works is to bend over as if you are picking something off the floor, and that guarantees both mine will come running, cockers are so nosey 

Re Amber growling when Mark leaned over her, this is familiar too, Harry gets a little anxious if we reach above his head or if we reach to pick him up. It took a couple of months for us to figure out what he found scary and to stop doing it e.g. he is fine being picked up off the floor for a cuddle but panics when we start to put him back down and starts to growl and snarl at us, so I just plop him down onto the chair when we have finished cuddling and he is ok with that.
You will learn strategies as you go along.  If I am going to do something that rattles Harry e.g. he has a rinse down most days in the bath as he is a mud magnet, and getting in is ok, but he hates you touching him to get out, so I put a harness on to lift him out so I don't touch his body and he is ok with that.   I also found Harry likes routine and is much easier to manage when he knows what is happening, so some things we do in a certain order.

I'm glad you are enjoying Amber and it is so rewarding to see them start to relax and start to feel at home and it is such a joy when their confidence in you grows and you can tell they are loving life and feeling secure 

[elaine.e]

I know she's new to you and still settling, but it sounds like she has some resource guarding issues. I think for the time being I would stop giving her high value items such as bones. You did exactly the right thing by not confronting her as that would run the risk of her biting you, but I'm sorry it cost you a sleepless night.

My younger Cocker will very occasionally guard really, really high value food items. The most notable occasion was when I gave both dogs a raw marrowbone for some recreational chewing. They had the bones out in the garden and Louis immediately took his under a shrub and growled and glared very intimidatingly at me, my other dog and even a Blackbird that landed nearby . I left him for a while to see if the novelty wore off but still had the same growling and staring. So I laid a little trail of fresh cooked chicken from where he was into the kitchen and when he followed the trail I shut him in the kitchen, grabbed the marrowbone and binned it. He hasn't been allowed one since.

From my point of view I don't worry about it too much. I'm sure I would if I had children around or if he resource guarded more often than once in a blue moon. But I've chosen to simply not give him anything I think he'll guard, knowing that with his normal food, his toys, the sofa etc. he's very relaxed.

I know it comes as a bit of a shock when resource guarding appears. I sound lighthearted about the incident with Louis, but it shook me up at the time. he looked and sounded really evil   whereas normally he's quite angelic with things. But it's fairly normal dog behaviour.

If you feel able to manage the situation by recognising what she guards and not giving her access to those things then that's fine. If you want to try and change her behaviour I would suggest trying a behaviourist who uses positive methods who can help you with strategies to stop or lessen the guarding.

Hope this helps

[Ben's mum]

My younger Cocker will very occasionally guard really, really high value food items. The most notable occasion was when I gave both dogs a raw marrowbone for some recreational chewing. They had the bones out in the garden and Louis immediately took his under a shrub and growled and glared very intimidatingly at me, my other dog and even a Blackbird that landed nearby . I left him for a while to see if the novelty wore off but still had the same growling and staring. So I laid a little trail of fresh cooked chicken from where he was into the kitchen and when he followed the trail I shut him in the kitchen, grabbed the marrowbone and binned it. He hasn't been allowed one since.

Sorry Elaine you made me laugh, it just sounded like me and Harry. I do think non cocker owners would find our methods all a little bizarre but its funny how we all learn strategies to manage them. 

[LisaNewland]

Thank you both for your replies, it's so reassuring to know we are not alone with this. Whatever happens, Mark and I are sticking with Amber and working out what are the best strategies. We both love her so much and couldn't be without her. We don't have young children living with us, but grandchildren visit occasionally. We will definitely not be giving her high value bones/treates and, as you mentioned, there is no problem with her meals, she sits, waits and is very calm about eating (although cleans the bowl every time!).

Currently, she has rediscovered the bone and is lying next to it, on guard! I intend to remove it the next time she moves away.

Thanks again for your advice and patience with this noob! Much of what you wrote had Mark and I laughing because it's so familiar.

[elaine.e]

Thank you both for your replies, it's so reassuring to know we are not alone with this. Whatever happens, Mark and I are sticking with Amber and working out what are the best strategies. We both love her so much and couldn't be without her. We don't have young children living with us, but grandchildren visit occasionally. We will definitely not be giving her high value bones/treates and, as you mentioned, there is no problem with her meals, she sits, waits and is very calm about eating (although cleans the bowl every time!).

Currently, she has rediscovered the bone and is lying next to it, on guard! I intend to remove it the next time she moves away.

Thanks again for your advice and patience with this noob! Much of what you wrote had Mark and I laughing because it's so familiar.

These dogs teach us so much

[Ben's mum]

I think you develop a special bond sometimes with a dog when you have to invest time and patience to work out issues, it can be frustrating and scary some days and I do remember thinking 'what have we done'  but it is just so worth while. Harry is 4 now, and yes he has his funny ways, but a more loving, funny dog you couldn't wish for - I am biased but he is adorable