10 month old growling at kids.

[BJ's Mommy]

Hi

Bella and Bailey are doing great.
One problem tho. Bailey is very shy with strangers. In particular children.
If they go too near her in her space she growls at them.
We are worried as we don't want her to bite.

Both her and her sister have been socialised at the same time and meet the same visitors.

She is soooo affectionate with all of us in fact extremely loving.

Can you help ?
Nicki.

[elaine.e]

No 2 dogs are the same, even siblings, much the same as human siblings. With dog siblings (or any 2 dogs of similar ages in the same home) one is often more confident than the other even though they've been raised together and in the same way, same socialisation etc.

Don't push Bailey out of her comfort zone. A growl is a warning that she's already very uncomfortable with the situation she's in and a bite could be the next step if her warning growls are ignored.

If this is happening out on walks or anywhere away from home, make sure that strangers aren't allowed to approach her and that she's on lead when people are nearby for her safety as well as that of others. You don't want to end up being accused of having a dangerous dog because she's frightened someone. Don't be afraid to explain (firmly, because inevitably there will be an idiot who thinks they know better) that Bailey is nervous of people she doesn't know so please don't approach her. You need to be her champion

If it happens when you have visitors at home you could try the following if the visitors are adults and dog savvy. It's what I do with my two because Louis is nervous of people he doesn't know and barks and growls if put under pressure, while William likes everyone -
When the visitors ring the doorbell put both dogs behind a baby gate or in a room where they can't say hello to the visitors straight away.
Once the visitors are settled, and if they're happy to meet the dogs, let the dogs in. Before you do so explain that they should totally ignore Bailey - no eye contact, no words of encouragement, even if Bailey approaches them.
Don't put any pressure on Bailey. If she chooses not to come in the room but to remain outside of it that's OK. She needs to do whatever she finds comfortable. If she comes in and hides behind the sofa or under a table and watch what's going on, that's fine too.
If you think she's getting anxious or if she starts barking or growling, calmly encourage her into another room or behind a baby gate. Don't tell her off for being afraid.

I've done this with Louis and he's become braver. Dog savvy visitors are allowed to throw a treat towards him and say hello if he approaches. But I wouldn't have done that when the problem was at it's worst. I don't really know what he's like with children because none come to our house, but I would be more cautious than with adults, just in case a child made a sudden movement or noise and startled him.

[phoenix]

A shy dog can only communicate by growling if it can't get away from the situation.  The warning growl is good in that the dog is showing restraint. But it is meant seriously, dogs don't lie.
 We have always lived  this problem. Luckily he doesn't know any children. He just wants strangers to keep out of his personal space.  The rule  of no eye contact  and don't touch him has worked fine  for 8 years. He trots happily round visitors, sniffs them,  etc and the same on walks. Never a problem unless you are my  elderly m-in-law, who won't listen to me, insists that they just need to make friends by her towering over him, talking gibberish . He will actually snarl at her, but is always on a lead when we are there.  Then she starts wagging her finger and tells him he is a naughty dog.it makes me growl too.  If she minds her own business and is busy washing up,  he trots past her happily . I know which of them I prefer!
Give Bailey time,  and her own place to relax. We had a baby gate for years.

[lucybennett]

Hi Nicki

Have you managed to sort this out? I have a 9 month old male black cocker- also Bailey!- who for the last 3 months or so has become growly and wary of strangers and barks at small children if they approach him- he will just happily walk past all of the above when walking along...

We had my cousin over with her 8 year old a few weeks ago and he barked and barked at him, didn't settle the whole day- we tried treats, ignoring etc but it seemed the battle was lost in the first 5 minutes when the little boy tried to say hello when we met at the train station and Bailey started barking at him. Such as shame as he has met Bailey twice before as a small pup and he was really affectionate.

He is better when off lead out walking when other dog walkers put a hand down to him, but will still shy away if approached.

So frustrating as I thought he had been well socialised with lots of exercise, rarely left alone, if anything he is with me an awful lot and i wonder if he is partly guarding me?

It is also inconsistent, sometimes someone will go to stroke him and he is fine!

He is very affectionate to people he knows....

Any further advice (Elaine and Phoenix v useful thanks) gratefully received

Lucy

[Pearly]

Hi Nicki

Have you managed to sort this out? I have a 9 month old male black cocker- also Bailey!- who for the last 3 months or so has become growly and wary of strangers and barks at small children if they approach him- he will just happily walk past all of the above when walking along...

He is better when off lead out walking when other dog walkers put a hand down to him, but will still shy away if approached.

So frustrating as I thought he had been well socialised with lots of exercise, rarely left alone, if anything he is with me an awful lot and i wonder if he is partly guarding me?

He is very affectionate to people he knows....

Any advice gratefully received

Lucy

Elaine has already given some good advice above - it sounds as though Bailey is doing all the right things by growling/barking.  Not all dogs are comfortable being approached by humans, especially by children - he is trying to tell you this!

Unless we are on a COL meet I encourage my dogs to actively avoid other dogs and all humans, they don't interact at all  - this is partly as I work them and a dog interfering with another on a shoot, or pestering a gun / beater would not be tolerated.

Bailey is your dog, so your rules and if you don't want people to pet him because it's making him uncomfortable then please let them know - as Elaine says you'll always get one who knows best  I find a polite but firm "but you don't know my dog" is generally enough to get them to keep their distance.

I appreciate you probably just want everyone to share how lovely Bailey is but it may not be the right expectation for him - he's sounds a fab boy, I say keep him to yourself 

Jayne

[Jan D]

Just wanted to throw some of our experiences into the pot here.

We are currently having some problems with Bobby who is almost 4 now. Until he was about 3 he seemed fine, never as well balanced as Roxy but generally ok. We are not sure what sparked it off but for the last year or so he has become increasingly wary (and growly and snappy) with other dogs, particularly bouncy younger ones...some dogs he is fine with. In the last few months this has also started happening with younger children ( we always put him on lead near children and most of the time near dogs too unless we know they are ones he is fine with). Anyway, long story short, we called in a behaviourist. He came to our home and spent almost 3 hours there, chatting about Bobby and even went out for a walk with us. He has sent us a great deal of info about dogs and stress and a lot of it agrees with what Elaine has already said. One other thing he told us is that dogs generally need around 18 hours sleep a day (even working dogs). This came as quite a surprise to us as we thought we were doing the dogs a favour always being around for them and taking them for long walks every day. Seems that some of Bobby's problems are due to him being tired and, like a human, becoming snappy because of that. We have made a conscious effort to do a few things - reducing the length of afternoon walks to between 45 mins and an hour, slowing down our speed of walking to enable the dogs to have more 'sniffy time' thus tiring their brains more, giving them more 'brain training' type of games in the house and also leaving them in the house on their own more to let them sleep. If we are at home they tend to trot around behind us so we go out more. It's given us more of our lives back too enabling us to feel less guilty about leaving then for two or three hours at a time while we go for a bike ride or do other non-dog-friendly activities. We are nowhere near out of the woods yet with Bobby having just come back from holiday in Cornwall where he was very reactive (but also very active - maybe no coincidence?) but we are working on it and I am currently waiting for another call from the behaviourist to discuss progress.

It just struck me that maybe Bailey may be having too much exercise and may not be being left alone enough to allow him to rest and get some quality sleep?

[lucybennett]

Two years on, I was just wondering if Elaine, BJ's mommy, Phoenix, Pearly and Jan D- and anyone else, have any progress to report on this issue. Bailey is now nearly three and whilst he has grown up and is more chilled and confident than he was as a pup in many ways, he is still very unfriendly to visitors (strangers) to the house or people or dogs going past if he is stationary or in a cafe/pub/sat on a bench. Such a shame as he is happy to go up to people on his walks when he is off lead and it is on his terms and so loving with people he has known all his life. We don't have many people he doesn't know to the house- partly avoidance!- so it is hard to get him used to it and it is now a real habit he is in. Not talking to him, no touch and no eye contact helps but most visitors cannot help themselves as he is so cute (until he snarls!). Throwing treats doesn't help as he is stressed/cross beyond taking treats. We have had a great trainer and behaviourist in and have some coping mechanisms like the gate and those things above but no cure. Has anyone come through this completely? He also is unfriendly to incomers at my brothers house when he is over there with us visiting making it hard for us to take him elsewhere in case they have people arrive! Please advise or do i just keep managing it and living with it? It also make having holiday pet sitters stay here a no no.... Many thanks

[Pearly]

Hi yes,

Lots of progress with Pearl although in the last two years we've gone from just me and Pearl to me, OH and 3 other cockers    I still don't encourage her to "meet" strange dogs and most of the time none of ours will mix with other dogs.  We have a COL meet next Saturday and I'm toying with leaving Coral at home so Pearl gets more of my attention.  She still gets anxious and doesn't know how to channel excitirment into fun - it's still channelled at me with the ankle nipping and neediness but this is vastly reduced since Coral arrived, the latter takes on the protector role if she senses any tension (generally at home).

I'll add an update after the meet

[lucybennett]

Thanks Jayne :-) - and just to let you know I have often over the past two years referred to your advice about not having a big expectation of sharing his loveliness (he is a fabbbbbb boy) with others, he is our dog and great with us in every single way and that's what really matters.

[phoenix]

We had our Bob for eight years.  Things did improve when I fully understood his body language. He seemed confident, but it was a front!  If ,as you know,you order people to ignore him, don't catch his eyes .... He happily ignored visitors.    No problem. He went up to them,decided they were'nt a threat,and trotted around fine,  BUT ,this was without children .  He did gradually lessen the guarding of bags o the floor etc., but this was due to me being vigilant at moving floor items higher up. He was a very loving boy, but only with the few people he trusted. I have never loved a dog as much as him. You put in so much, and appreciate little improvements and every cuddle. I swear we had telepathy!