pulling on the lead

[bizzylizzy]

Blueberry - if Blue is mostly pulling on the way home, it's a habit you need to break, as much as it's about loose lead walking. He's got it into his head this is what he does on the the way home. Although it will be very boring for a while, maybe you could make your walk away from home much shorter then concentrate most of your time on the return journey. Just do not budge if he's pulling. Turn around. You'll look like a fool and it might take FOREVER to get home. But every time he gets to move forward towards home by pulling, he's rewarded himself.

What I found really useful was to do the clicker training for being by my side at home with no lead. Then in the garden with no lead, then a lead. All this over the course of a week. Now I practice it for a few minutes before we go out as well as at random times when at home. When we are out and he is walking nicely, a click makes him turn his head and wait for a treat. If he even glances back at me while ahead, I click. Then he remembers what follows the click if he's beside me and he doubles back to my side.
.

Something else I've noticed, but it only really occured to me today while I was mulling all this over, -( and which endorses what you've said), is that in places where I started   the clicker trainiing, i.e. on one particularly dangerous stretch of road, and consequently did more there, Humphrey walks pretty well now without me saying much, - so you're right LG, it IS habit, they get used to pulling in certain places and (occasionally ) walking nicely in certain places. It really goes to prove that its US who need to be consistant if we want our dogs to be.....!!

[Londongirl]

(In reply to AlanT) At the moment if I let Henry off the lead, he bolts. He's not even chasing anything. Just running full pelt into the distance. I can see people scatter in the distance as he charges through. He was great as a pup, but right now I have NO control when he's off the lead. All his training, including months of whistle training, has gone straight out of his head. I'm doing what I can at home. The long line doesn't help. Even if it's slack he knows he's on it and behaves differently. Sorry, slightly off-topic for loose lead walking. But I'm mystified as to where I've gone wrong.

[bizzylizzy]

(In reply to AlanT) At the moment if I let Henry off the lead, he bolts. He's not even chasing anything. Just running full pelt into the distance. I can see people scatter in the distance as he charges through. He was great as a pup, but right now I have NO control when he's off the lead. All his training, including months of whistle training, has gone straight out of his head. I'm doing what I can at home. The long line doesn't help. Even if it's slack he knows he's on it and behaves differently. Sorry, slightly off-topic for loose lead walking. But I'm mystified as to where I've gone wrong.

You haven't gone wrong, you've just got another teenager on your hands!!

[Londongirl]

(In reply to AlanT) At the moment if I let Henry off the lead, he bolts. He's not even chasing anything. Just running full pelt into the distance. I can see people scatter in the distance as he charges through. He was great as a pup, but right now I have NO control when he's off the lead. All his training, including months of whistle training, has gone straight out of his head. I'm doing what I can at home. The long line doesn't help. Even if it's slack he knows he's on it and behaves differently. Sorry, slightly off-topic for loose lead walking. But I'm mystified as to where I've gone wrong.

You haven't gone wrong, you've just got another teenager on your hands!!

I just don't know what to do! Just wait it out until he settles down again? Keep him on the lead forever? Aaaargh!

[AlanT]

How far away does he go? I allow about 200 yards. Then I recall and treat. Normally works OK.

When mine was a young pup I'd find a safe place, footpath on a disused railway-track, and let him clear off.
Then I would hide and yell.

Now he knew the fear of being alone and would pelt back towards me. I still keep this up.
But it's pointless really because he can track me.

Nevertheless I got a habit going of him check in that I'm still there.

There are times however when just like yours, he will run too far off. I only go off lead where we have huge amounts of safe space.

Commons, parks, Golf-courses, where there are roads, are too small an area and we stay ON.

These are smart, confident animals, happy in wide-open spaces. Always going to be a problem to hold them back I feel.

[AlanT]

Londongirl, are you in London? If so which part?

[bizzylizzy]

I don't think you'll be on the long lead forver, its probably really just a phase, - Humphrey's been venturing further over the last few days and he's sniffing more intently,,- someone pointed our on here a couple of days ago that there's more going on right now on the wildlife scene and even though's he's been neutered, Henry's possibly still picking up on any bitches that are around. Its probably a cumulation of lots of things.
I've been doing precisely what Alan's described, this last week - I've been letting him run ahead (even though he's been going much further than usual) and calling him back when I think he's too far, - which is around 200'yards aswell. He doesn't get a treat unless he's done a U turn but I still praise him and also call out praise if he just turns round to check where I am. I also hid from him last night as nose was down and he'd forgotten I was there. I appreciate I've probably got it a bit easier because we're in the country,,although I still have to watch for joggers, bikes and tractors, but maybe if you get chance, it might well be worth trying somewhere off track, that he doesn't know, just to reinforce that he needs to keep an eye on you, but I think I'd definately stick with the long lead normally for the time being, I'd think you'll achieve more by sticking at it now than if you have to revert to using it 6 months down the line.
Henry's done so well so far so all the data's stored  up there in his brain, but I've heard from SO many people and my trainers, that they go through a couple of these phases, one at around puberty and another one at around 12-18 months, so I'm optimistic that by their 2nd birthdays Henry and Humphrey will be the perfect walking companions!!!! We just have to sit it out by the looks of it! 

[Londongirl]

Londongirl, are you in London? If so which part?

South London.

In answer to bizzylizzy's question, there's nowhere I can safely let him off at the moment except in the woods. Every where else he's running so fast and so far away from me I'm likely to get arrested for having an out of control dog!

Admins - can we split this from Blueberry's thread on lead walking? I've rather hijacked it. 

[AlanT]

You can't just train and assume it will keep working.
Every walk I'll train recall. And he stays ON if he can't behave.

These are artful and mine anyway is extremely self-confident. After all he'll dive and retrieve from 3-feet of water now.

So "what's the fuss, I'm OK", is very common.

You might try walking with another well-trained dog and maybe he'll copy.

DO NOT GIVE UP. This is one of the most essential skills they need.

[Londongirl]

You can't just train and assume it will keep working.
Every walk I'll train recall. And he stays ON if he can't behave.

These are artful and mine anyway is extremely self-confident. After all he'll dive and retrieve from 3-feet of water now.

So "what's the fuss, I'm OK", is very common.

You might try walking with another well-trained dog and maybe he'll copy.

DO NOT GIVE UP. This is one of the most essential skills they need.

I never stopped training and reinforcing his recall. That's what's so frustrating. He just took off like a rocket one day for no reason that I can see and has been like that ever since. Before that he would stay close and check in regularly if he was rummage about in the woods,  and would turn and come back when called every time. I never stopped practicing recall and rewarding it, including varying the treats and doing occasional 'jackpot' rewards. I also did regular reinforcement sessions (almost every day) on the long line around his particular distractions (birds and squirrels).

We walk regularly with other dogs who never stray from their owners. He couldn't care less.

[AlanT]

This has happened to me a couple of times. Interesting smells come into it I think.

Just stick to your routine. They like routines. Don't think that every time out will be a bolt into the blue.

It's more  that mischief takes hold sometimes. Need to be very wary though. And be careful where you go.

It's easy for me I have miles of forest and fields around here even though it's only half an hour to the city by train.

[Londongirl]

Thanks, Alan. I'll keep at it.

[Pearly]

Wcs take a bit more patience in the recall and walking department than the average scs - top tips I've picked up in the last 18 months (Coral now 20 months):

Walking to heel - invest in a slip lead.  Do not yank/tug/jerk or snatch as you may damage the pups neck.  Walk slowly, encouraging your pup to walk with his head next to your knee by holding (the smellier the better) oily fish in your left hand and the lead across your thighs to your right hand - "taunt" the pup by holding the reward just in front of their nose.  When the lead is slack, their head is up and they are getting the message, let the pup have a little of the fish.  This should only be for 10 mins or so, 2-3 times a day.

Once the message about walking to heel is embedded move on to stage 2:  walk more quickly holding the lead handle in your right hand and guiding your dog with your left hand.  If the lead goes tight, softly call your pups name and walk them round (initially to the left) to the opposite direction.  Repeat.  You may not get very far but it does work and took Coral around 2 weeks of this, 3 times a day for a maximum of 10 minutes each time.  When you've done this a few times, start turning to the right as well - praise all the time the lead is slack and turn round every time it's taut!

At 16 weeks your pup should only be walking around 20 minutes at a time anyway  for a wcs, having a "job" or brain training will be far better for them than lots of excercise - the fitter the dog, the more excercise it will need! A very fit, untrained dog is not much fun to take out for walks 

Training is really just learned behaviour and little /often seems to work best with our cockers  . Reward the behaviour you want, ignore the behaviour you don't and distract with a positive command (walking up and down as an example).

Sunday 25 Sept - Coral and I entered a fun working test, she was steady, responsive to the whistle and walked to heel both on and off the lead.  We were not placed but we were able to enter and not asked to leave (!) the Judge even commented on her obedience and stop on the whistle  . Her impulse control is improving almost daily and although still gets very excitable was out working for the first time on 20 Sept.  We still have a long way to go but there is light at the end of the tunnel......honest 

[AlanT]

Look up the recipe for "liver-cake". Mine really went for this. More motivation than biscuit type treats.
Easy to make and not messy. I've eaten it myself for a try.

My dog is a "share" with my son and his wife. We all trained him in a NOT totally consistent manner.
The daughter-in-law did a lot of puppy-classes and gun-dog classes.

I did day-shifts and mostly we went out field-working.

Now he will work for any of us. We all have different "house-rules" but he just fits in.

This suggests to me that exact attention to method is not as important as frequency.

[montysmum]

thank you so much for all your advise. I'll probably try a harness but our puppy trainer at classes gave us a choke-collar to try. No sure what i think about that one yet.