im devastated

[Laura&Barney]

Hi everyone, i came on here straight after this happened. Barney had my new knickers (somehow reached my bag they came in) and ran behind the couch to rip them up as he usually does so obviously i grabbed the other end of them and he started really growling nastily (again as he usually does) this scared me alittle but i didnt want him to see i was backing off and that he could get away with it. I noticed a part of the knickers were wrapped round his leg so pulling the knickers wouldnt get me no where cos they were caught and by the time i got it from around his leg he would have grabbed them again. i went to lift his leg (as you would when the lead gets wrapped around the leg) and he snarled and bit me! hes bit me before for the same reasons but never caught my hand like this! in a state of shock and anger i screamed something i wont repeat and ripped the knickers out of his mouth (luckily i had untangled his leg already) i smacked him (it cant have been to hard as he didnt yelp and i had limited use of my hand) grabbed him and while dangling in the air he's wriggling not to get free but to bite my hands! as i rushed to the kitchen with him in my hands and arms length away from my face i could hear his teeth continuely clashing together (trying to bite my hands or part of my arm, whatever he could reach). Its wierd cos i cant move my hand backwards properly without it hurting, apparently its whats called a pressure bite so you can imagine how hard he bit me, with his adult teeth. i was in a fit of tears after it, not cos of the pain but cos im worried incase i cant do nothing about it and have to say goodbye (just writing it has made the waterworks come back on). i cant help but get the feeling that maybe i was far too soft with him at a younger age (got him on 3rd december 2005 when he was 8weeks old). Please tell me someone else has been through this and that its a passing phase.

Thanks for listening.

[suzysu]

Aww so sorry to hear you have had a nasty experience  ..sorry have no experience but hope someone will be along to help you...sending you a big (((HUG)))  and hope your hand is better soon xxxxx

[miche]

Oh dear, sorry this has happened.  I doubt you were to soft on him when he was young, if you got him in December 2005 and he was 8 weeks old, that would mean he was born in October 2005 and is now 6 months old and really is still young and learning. 

I would suggest not to hit again.  You seemed to get into this situation because he had your knickers and you wanted them back so you took them from him and he was telling you that he was in charge and no-way were you having them.  If he does it again, get a really nice tasty treat and call him in an excitable voice, when he drops the item give him the treat and really praise him up.

Honestly, positive training works wonders, I have been throught this as I have an 11 month old cocker and a 9  month old cocker - it is a phase of sorts but one that you have to help your dog through in a positive way.

Do a search on NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) and Good Luck

[speedyjaney]

If he does it again, get a really nice tasty treat and call him in an excitable voice, when he drops the item give him the treat and really praise him up.

This is great advice from Miche....and if you begin NILIF with Barney he will soon become more responsive to you.

He felt threatened and you trying to remove something he valued....don't be too hard on yourself or on Barney....he is very young and I am sure most of us have similar situations with our pups too

Janey

[Logan]

Hi,

I agree entirely with Miche - its excellent advice.  I have recently read the Victoria Stillwell - Its me or the Dog book and having grown up with dogs, was surprised how little I knew about behaviour and responses.  Although I consider her slightly patronising, I cannot deny that she knows her field. 

Her advice is to teach comands in a positive fashion - if you haven't taught your dog to leave, he cannot be expected to understand this concept himself.  "Leave" can be taught by using a treat in a closed hand and rewarding with a treat in the other (un-noticed by the dog).  Building up to leaving a dog alone with the object of desire.

I don't mean to preach, as my 4 year old, Clunie, will never return a 'retrieved' ball, but only hide it from me, but I've decided to work on it for my own sake and that of my poor shoes, as she only hides the balls in the swampiest, nastiest places!!!  Thank God for £0.88 for 3 balls at Tesco!

Best wishes and I hope this is sorted soon.

Love
Gill and Clunie

[Danni n Betty]

If he does it again, get a really nice tasty treat and call him in an excitable voice, when he drops the item give him the treat and really praise him up.

This really works!!! I sort of figured it out after Betty knicked a packet of out of date sausages from the bin... nice( my fault, I left the flap up). I tried to get them off her but she legged it, and then got all possesive about them. So I basically got some of her treats to blackmail her into dropping them. Whenever this happens now, like if she's picked up somethng gross in the park,  I do the same, but make sure I say give, like I do when we're doing some training, and she knows she's getting a good swap!

[MaxG]

Yep - great advice here - it definately works!! 

Our Max was a little bu$$er for stealing things & not giving them back when he was younger & we persevered with the bribery thing, ie, swapping whatever he had for a toy or a treat, all the while talking in a happy voice & giving him praise etc. or trying to distract him.  If we ever tried to take stuff away by telling him off or putting any pressure on whatever it was he had in his mouth, he'd clamp on for dear life & we'd have a stand-off!! I remember an occasion on the landing with a pair of PJ trousers to this day!!!! 

[sharesy]

I haven't got ant advice I'm afraid, but it sounds like other colers know what they are talking about.

I dread this sort of thing happening as I'm not a very confident person and wouldn't know what to do. Thank goddness for all these lovely people here that are so forth coming with their help.

[Cob-Web]

Oh dear, poor you Laura, I hope your hand feels better soon

I do agree with Miche about not hitting him, and practicing NILIF; it really helps once they reach the 6 month old teenage phase 

I notice in your OP you say that you say that he "usually" growls nastily when you try to take something away from him? A growl is typical doggie warning behaviour - which as you have discovered, is followed up by a bite if the growl is ignored - so it sounds as if Barney has been giving you doggie warnings for a while - and would probably benefit from a NILIF approach 

[Gilly]

What a terrible experience for you, I can understand how upset you must be 

I would say that this behaviour is not as uncommon as you might think and you will certainly not be alone. Some dogs do put high value on some items, especially one's they haven't been given, ie; stolen and cockers certainly do like to steel!
If a dog feels threatened, backed into a corner with you towering over them they will react in two ways, fight for what they have or run away depending on their personality. At the moment your puppy is more than likely going through the teenage phase and is showing some bossy tendencies. You need to go back to basics with him and as others have said NILIF would be a good option.

Because he is so young I really do think this is something you can work and get sorted out quite easily.

[debbie321]

I'm so glad you posted this.  I started a post called Nasty Ben for the same problem.  Since then he has gone for my 13 yr old daughter   He stole one of my slippers which is not unusual - Beck grabbed him before he could get under the table which is his usual hideout - and then he turned on her .................... she was shocked - I was quick - he ended up in his cage but it should've been Becky that did it.  He's about 9 1/2 months which is the testing teenage time but I can't risk him causing injury.  We don't have regular 'scare' moments but enough to get me worried that I dealing with them the wrong way?

I know he only changes when he has something of high value - but how do I know how he values things from day to day?

[PennyB]

I'm so glad you posted this.  I started a post called Nasty Ben for the same problem.  Since then he has gone for my 13 yr old daughter   He stole one of my slippers which is not unusual - Beck grabbed him before he could get under the table which is his usual hideout - and then he turned on her .................... she was shocked - I was quick - he ended up in his cage but it should've been Becky that did it.  He's about 9 1/2 months which is the testing teenage time but I can't risk him causing injury.  We don't have regular 'scare' moments but enough to get me worried that I dealing with them the wrong way?

I know he only changes when he has something of high value - but how do I know how he values things from day to day?

Rather than worrying how he values stuff he steals start teaching him to give stuff up, beginning with trading items.

I think the problem is grabbing him really as he's feeling threatened by your behaviour. Its always best to try teaching him otherwise rather than reacting to each incident.You'll be surprised how well this works if you're consistent. Sometimes also they're not attacking the person thats taken back the thing they're actually trying to get it back and unfortunately we get in the way sometimes.

If you taught him all this stuff as a pup then teach him again and keep on teaching it. He's an adolescent and needs retraining in some areas in a calm and confident way.

Ben is not a nasty dog.

[ClareB]

I've always taken the stance that unless it's a really important item, eg mobile phone, jewellery etc or it's harmful for the dog, just to leave them to it and avoid all confrontation.  Milo certainly thinks all the attention he gets when he steals something is great and never gives it back, guarding it and running away.     But, if you leave him to it and walk away, he invariably gets bored and thinks "oh b*****, that's not the reaction I wanted" and just leaves it anyway!  He did it this morning with a carrier bag and I just said "oh keep it, i can't be bothered to fight you for it", walked away and 2 minutes later he was lying on the bed and I just went in and retrieved the bag.     If it is something you really need to get back, get him to leave it in exchange for a really tasty treat or favourite toy, just as the others have said.  Personally, I wouldn't do hitting or smacking - that will just make him more defensive next time.   

[crunchie]

As I'm typing this Pringle is in time out as a result of a massive tantrum when she refused to let got of OH's trouser leg!!  Like others, we find that bribery and distraction with treats works.  She seems to be biting really hard at the moment and always seems to draw blood.  Hoping she grows out of this soon.  It seems to happen when she gets really over excited and doesn't know what to do with herself.  Am desperately trying to avoid her sharp little teeth at the moment.  We've got a posh do to go to in 3 weeks and I am wearing a sleeveless dress so want my arms to be as bite free as possible!

[MaxG]

I agree with ClareB - we often don't bother if Max pinches something unimportant or harmless, ie, a sock or whatever - he just carries it round for a bit then leaves it cos we don't rise to the bait!!