Off Lead - Stage 2

[Nat11]

Hi,

We let Winston off the lead the other day and he was very good, yesterday and today he was off for a bit and was pretty good - he didn't come instantly when having a serious sniff of something but did as soon as he looked up, however my concern is him being of the lead when other dogs are around, so far I have always made sure there are no doggies in sight and then put him on the lead as soon as I spot one. I'm worried he will just charge off towards them and completely ignore me. Should I continue off leading when no dogs about and then work on long lead recall when there are dogs about? If the other dogs are on lead I don't want him going up off lead to them in case owners don't want him to appraoch and if other dogs are off lead I don't want him getting knocked over (he was knocked over by his doggie grandma a few weeks ago and was a bit winded and took a few secs to get up) so shouold i wait till he's older (hes 16weeks now)- bigger/stonger or am i just worrying too much?? Sorry for the long post  just not sure how to proceed...

[CarolineL]

Hi Nat

I personally would just let him off to play with other dogs, by putting him on the lead you are kind of teaching him that there is something wrong with saying hello to other dogs and that there is something to worry about. As he is still a puppy he has lots of doggie etiquette to learn, most dogs will be very patient with a puppy and let them get away with blue murder and if he does take it too far and one of them gives him a little nip to keep him in line its usually positive as it helps him learn his doggie manners. As you have seen his recall is ok and he will come back to you - just make sure that you make it worth his while by having a tasty treat ready for him when he returns.

In my experience if there are other dogs on a lead I usually put mine back on a lead as Hurley's recall can be appaulling when he sees other dogs and from my own experience some dogs are on a lead because they are either not good with other dogs off lead approaching them or for some other reason (bad recall etc).

A lead is also quite restricting for doggie body language and some dogs can tend to be a bit more barky on the lead (my dog is not very good with other dogs approaching him when he is on his lead and in a confined space) as they have no where to run to if they feel threatened.

Im sure some more experienced COLers will come and give their advice, this is just how I have been with my dog and it seems to work ok for me.

[Cob-Web]

If you think he "might" run up to another dog (on or off lead) then I would carry on leashing him when you see one, but seek out opportunities for him to socialise, so ask the owner of the other dog if their dog will be OK to play  There are too many incidents described in previous COL posts for you to risk your pup approaching an unknown dog, imo 

Molo went through a stage of being "growly" towards pups, so I didn't allow him to socialise with them, as it may have caused the pups problems - but there are lots of puppy-loving dogs out there who would love to play with Winston, I'm sure 

[redmal]

Also if you are pretty certain hes doing something really interesting & WONT come back - dont call him! And if he is coming to you of his own accord - DO call him!!  

[Janice-Dylan]

I'm having the same problem. Dylan's recall is excellent until another dog is around. If he's running beside me and another dog comes along, it's luck if i spot it before he does, then trying to catch him in time is difficult. most other dogs at the park are offlead and its pot luck if they want dylan to play or not.half of them look disapprovingly and the other half make a fuss and let them play. If i'm out in the fields at the stables, i know the other dogs and i know they're ok with him playing so Dylan can't understand why he can play with these dogs but not all of the ones in the park. got to say i'm avoiding the park now which is a shame as we only go to stables twice a week.rest of time he has to stay on extendable to get exercise as he's too near roads. i'm maybe going to try long line next.

[Cob-Web]

ii'm maybe going to try long line next.

I taught Molo recall using a long line;  it took a long time, but was well worth it   

Although I appreciate that every park is different, I am sure that many COL owners will agree that it is a gamble as to whether off-lead dogs are *friendly* or not, and the damage that can be done to a pup by an aggressive dog is not only physical, but psychological, too

[Nicola]

, I am sure that many COL owners will agree that it is a gamble as to whether off-lead dogs are *friendly* or not,

Yes, unfortunately not all owners see the need to keep their dog-aggressive dogs on lead when in areas where other dogs are present.

There's nothing quite like hearing a cheery 'oh he doesn't really mean it' when there's a snarling beast lunging at your 12 week old puppy, or even worse: the 'yes, he's done this a few times since his bitch had pups' which I got from the owner of the huge off lead belgian shepherd which ran up to 4 month old Alfie and sank its teeth into the top of his head     The resulting vet bill wiped the smile off his face!

[Janice-Dylan]

so how is this resolved? i'm glad i read this one, i was beginning to feel that i was being silly pancking when he ran over to other dogs, one dog owner said to me, don't call him every time he runs to another dog,leave him to play for a few minutes befiore you call him or he'll never be s cialised with other dogs,he's not going to come anyway. problem is he spots one at half a mile away and runs like hell, i've to run like crazy after him so can't be there when he gets to other dog. i've also been told that they'll always be like that with other dogs,no matter how you train them,especially cockers

[Cob-Web]

i've also been told that they'll always be like that with other dogs,no matter how you train them,especially cockers

No, I can reliably recall Molo from other dogs now, but it took a year of dedicated line training, and his maturity, to get to this stage  When he was a puppy, he assumed that anything with legs wanted to be his friend 

I was really upset and in tears some days, thinking that I would never be able to let Molo off-lead; but time and patience worked eventually  It is worth it, to be able to see them running free, but knowing they will come back when called - don't be put off by people who will say that it will never happen - it just might take  a lot more effort than if you were training a border collie 

[Janice-Dylan]

That's a great help, thanks. Lets me know that i won't be wasting my time persevering and it's okay to be careful meantime.cheers

[Colin]

i've also been told that they'll always be like that with other dogs,no matter how you train them,especially cockers

Not necessarily so - as they get older a lot of them tend to be more interested in sniffing about etc, rather than running upto every dog and person they see.  All  3 of mine have become like that anyway - although I suppose it could be because they have each other, so canine company isn't such a novelty to them. Jimmy is the only one that still bothers with people. A quick meet and greet with dogs is all they want to do, then it's back to the serious Cocker business of sniffing about and chasing after balls.

I let mine off lead from day one and allowed them to interact with other dogs as much as possible - it's the best way for them to socialise and learn acceptable behaviour, in my opinion. Obviously you have to watch out for problems though - I was happy for other dogs to give them a telling off if they needed it, they generally get a puppy license at first and most dogs will be really tolerant of them. I found other owners approached me once they saw I had a pup - all dog owners are suckers for a new pup in the park. 

[clairep4]

I've let both mine offlead from day one and let them interact with other dogs as much as possible - I live in London with busy parks and it would be a right palaver putting them on lead every time we saw another dog (every 30 seconds or so some days!).

Bella was a bit of a fiesty young pup and did insist on saying hello to every single dog and on one occasion ended up getting attacked as a result but tbh I think this was our own fault because we were naiive new owners and unaware of the risks of letting a pup (albeit she was displaying the full range of calming signals and didn't bound over to this dog) go over to an unknown dog who was sitting near his owner - it was a bull terrier and lunged at her, very nasty experience for all concerned. After that we were much more careful and stopped letting her approach quite as readily - actually as she's matured (now 2 years old) she's stopped bothering with most dogs as she's too interested in sniffing the ground and finding squirrels so it's normally other dogs who approach her, rather than the other way round. And if they don't approach her politely then they get told off.

Zorro's completely the opposite and doesn't bother with other dogs very much, he'll go up to them if they are close by but won't head off across the park to say hello, and doesn't seem bothered about playing with them really - I think it's maybe partly that he has Bella and gets plenty of playing at home with her, but also he's just a very different personality to her.

I think it's important that they get to socialise with other dogs so they can learn all the proper etiquette etc - like another poster said, if you think your pup is too busy with something else to respond to your recall then wait until a better moment - it makes a big difference to them learning a more reliable response as they're not learning to ignore you.

[Nat11]

Thanks for the advice everyone - this morning we went for a walk with a friend from work who has a beagle pup (marley)a week or so younger than Winston and they were pretty much the same size as each other. my friend let her dog off and so I did the same with winston thinking it was perfect opportunity to practise off lead time with other dogs. They did all the usual puupy scrapping but were off lead the whole walk and just chased each other about - it was lovely to see winston with a play mate  We did meet other dogs on the walk that were both on and off lead - Marley is quite bold and would approach them but winston was a little more resevered and didn't feel the need to charge up to them which was good -he preferred to say hello to people, and also he was very good at recall which was a huge relief when he was contemplating a dip in the huge lake! Think i will keep letting him off but just be careful as to who/what is about and tie this in with more long lead training. hopefully regular walks with Marley and our other friends with a cocker will help - anyways once he's had a rest we are off to PAH to get new toys as a reward  (and because Pheasent suffered a fatal wound yesterday and needs replacing -at least he lasted 9 weeks!  ) Thanks again any more advice still welcome!

[PennyB]

i've also been told that they'll always be like that with other dogs,no matter how you train them,especially cockers

Not necessarily so - as they get older a lot of them tend to be more interested in sniffing about etc, rather than running upto every dog and person they see.  All  3 of mine have become like that anyway - although I suppose it could be because they have each other, so canine company isn't such a novelty to them. Jimmy is the only one that still bothers with people. A quick meet and greet with dogs is all they want to do, then it's back to the serious Cocker business of sniffing about and chasing after balls.

Mine are like this --- obviously if its dogs they recognise they go bounding up to them but are generally more interested in whats going on underneath their noses.

I always carry treats and sometimes I'll recall mine (mine don't like certain types of dogs just as much as other dogs might want to eat them, or not as the case may be), or I'll the 'ooh look wotsthis' and then throw a biscuit(s) into the grass away from me so they become more interested in hunting for those.

When they were young and still learning I would carry the odd small squeaky toy, loads of high and low value treats, and may be a ball or two.

I guess mine learnt good recall as I often walked on a trail where there were also bikes or horses as wel las other dogs so it was just common curtisey to make sure mine were under control, plus it looks good as I'd recall them to sit near me for as long as I wanted --- they could see I had the treat in my hand but I only gave it up once the bike or whatever had passed.

When they're also young you need to stop them just running up to people as well, univited as not everyone wants them running up to them no matter how cute. As with everything I played it by ear because if I could then hear someone say aw isn't he cute then of course I'd let them meet them.

[Janice-Dylan]

Just had a very rewarding training day with Dylan that I have to share with someone. Huge advances- thanks to all the above advice. Bought a long line from PAH and went off to park with bag of livercake to hand. I just let him career off as normal, giving him a sniff of livercake before he left. He stayed very close and every time he went too far I called him back. Sometimes he got livercake, sometimes just a big fuss and a cuddle. Another dog came towards us off lead, I let him run off towards him, I loosely picked up the long lead and followed him over, owner was okay to let them play. so we chatted about the training, I called him, gave livercake and off we went.What a difference that I had control at the end of the long line in case something went wrong with the other dog,but Dylan was unaware that I was holding it. Again when we passed the footballers, he careered towards them but came the second I called him he came back-I had picked up the long lead just in case but didny need it- amazing!! So he has complete freedom,  I have peace of mind that I have control if he takes off or meets another dog. We had a lovely walk, completely relaxed, what a difference, thank you. Livercake now reserved for recall and training class only, will also try the tuna bread.