In much need of a four legged friend

[bev6951]

There are lots of threads about PRA & Optigen testing if you do a search. As Bev has said, if one parent is Optigen tested clear, then no puppies will be affected by the disease but if the other parent is a carrier, then some pups will be carriers. Responsible breeders will ensure that registrations are endorsed and explain things fully so that pet owners are aware their puppy may be a carrier and should not be bred from without being tested first. It's ok saying the pups will be pets and so it doesn't matter but we all know pet Cockers are bred from all the time so it does matter for future generations.

completely agree, I have found also that more and more breeders are putting into contracts that puppies are sold with the understanding that they will be spayed/neutered this can only be a good thing especially if the breeders have carrier pups. spaying/neutering, as we all agree, is the best thing for your dog 

[Coco]

Also many dogs are kept outside in barns and outdoor kennels etc particularly working dogs, my husbands friends who have working springers are kept outside in their own huge kennel with run etc, they have been since they were born.I personally wouldnt want to keep my dogs outside in a barn but that is my personal preference and doesnt mean I love my dogs more than those who choose to own outside dogs.

I agree with this, many, many of our friends with working dogs are kept outside, Wherry was initally planned to be kenneled overnight and only come inside for an hour or so at night.
HOWEVER, these are WOKRING dogs, not pets. Also if breeding the dogs would be taken inside to ensure they are constantly observed and that they are well socialised to all the sights and sounds of everyday life.

My concern would be more the ammount of litters, i'm aware  that some breeders have litters together but three seems a lot to me.

[Cob-Web]

Thanks for your reply, we went and saw a breeder on a farm yesterday. She had some at 8 weeks, some at 2 and a litter that had just been born in the past couple of days. We are thinking about this last litter as time wise it would work out well.

This breeder certainly doesn't "tick all the the boxes" in terms of the advice given on COL on how to find a reputable breeder regardless of who has recommended them:
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/Reputable_Breeders

...and I know how tempting it is to compromise if you don't think that a reputable breeder will consider your individual circumstances (we had loads of breeders tell us that they wouldn't consider us; not only do we work but we had a toddler daughter, too). 

But, because you are going to be working, and the time you are able to spend with your puppy is going to be limited while he/she is still young, then it is even more important (imo) that you find a puppy which has the best possible chance of good health, temperament and which is well socialised, so that you can get on with the important job of raising him or her, rather than having to fill the gaps that are left, or undo damage that may have been done 

As the article linked to above says - it is impossible for breeders with multiple litters to provide the same level of socialisation as a breeder who limits their litters to one at a time; and this is even more relevant if the litters are housed outside 

[Coco]

But, because you are going to be working, and the time you are able to spend with your puppy is going to be limited while he/she is still young, then it is even more important (imo) that you find a puppy which has the best possible chance of good health, temperament and which is well socialised, so that you can get on with the important job of raising him or her, rather than having to fill the gaps that are left, or undo damage that may have been done 

Exactly what I was trying to say but better 

There is also the issue of going on a bit of a resuce mission the 'I just couldn't leave them there' and we all know what happens there.

You need to get on with teaching the pup natural progression, not making up for lost time in the months that you have off.

Even if you are set on this breeded, have a look around and see some other litters for comparison. It can't hurt and it will definatly help to gain more insight into different styles of breeders.

Just one more thing, and I don't mean to offend anyone on here but do remember this site can be used by commercial breeders who just have a quick look over the 'looking for a puppy' section for sales potential. I've had excellent recommendations for pups on here and some not so excellent  Is the other member an established member with lots of posts in various sections? Have you looked at their previous posts? It may be worth a quick look. Again, I don't mean to offend anyone but it's very easy to trust people on such a friendly forum when in reality it can easily be used for other purposes.

[mfarrar]

The breeder was recommended to me from someone that has had a dog from them which was of excellent temperment and well socialised and knows another dog from the same place that is the same.

The puppies I saw that were eight weeks were very well socialised, they were not shy of people they loved the attention. They looked to be very well cared for and in good health.

I understand where you are coming from, thinking about commercial breeders that mistreat there dogs breeding them to death and then dumping them. This was definately not someone like that.

[bev6951]

The 'other' member is me and no I am not a BYB or have anything to gain from any of this, I invite everyone to look at all of my previous posts from start to finish (as boring as they may be), I am quite good at covering my puppy farming tracks and am very proud of  my innocent dog owning disguise.  I purchased my dog from this breeder and she came reccommended to me by many other breeders some of which are known on here, her dogs have MANY burnchild, toynsvins, bitcon, helleborus and lynwater in their pedigree and are health screened, optigen tested and well socialised. If this breeder is a 'bad' breeder it also makes many many members of this forums dogs breeders 'bad' too for either studding out their dogs or selling their bitches to her. I took advice from lots of people and even read on this forum for things to check for and search good pedigrees. This breeder does love her dogs the barn is directly next to the house and all puppies are kept warm and are played with and socialised.She offers constant support when the puppy is taken home and will take them back if it doesnt workout, none of her dogs are interbred and she  doesnt keep getting her bitch pregnant constantly.
She has a good extended family so plenty of people to take care of the litters. And her farm is a real working farm not a puppy farm. I am sure you will all know some of the advice given on here is excellant I myself have often started threads asking for advice, but there is also some poor advice or people who think they know everything about everything.
As you can probably tell I have taken huuge offence from some of your posts as naive is something I hope I am not and chose my puppy carefully, if I am wrong I am wrong, my dog was easy to toilet train, slept through the night really quickly, is confident, loving and very typical of his breed. He posed no problems for us whatsoever and to put judgement on something you havent seen first hand is quite wrong of you.
I am really upset and am sure I wont be posting on this forum anymore which is a shame because of the few friends I did get to know. But hey.
I'm done  

[Karma]

At the end of the day, you are the person who has seen these pups - you have read enough on this site to know the indicators of puppy farming, and the risks associated with it so, if you are happy that the conditions the pups are being raised in, then it's time to start getting prepared for your new arrival.  

People do have different opinions about what constitutes a responsible breeder, but if you are happy that the pups, and mums, are happy, healthy and well-socialised, that is what matters!!!

[Cob-Web]

I understand where you are coming from, thinking about commercial breeders that mistreat there dogs breeding them to death and then dumping them. This was definately not someone like that.

Commercial breeders are not all "puppy farmers", some are very professional and provide their dogs with good quality kennelling, food and veterinary care. However, their motive is still profit - and they breed dogs for the pet market, with little consideration as to the genetic compatibility of the dogs they breed, and the conformity of the dogs they breed compared to the breed standards.

Obviously, if the dogs are of good temperament, health screened and well socialised, then the puppies have a good chance of a healthy, happy life - but the ethics of  breeding dogs like this is still questionable, imo.

Bev, I hope you are still reading; I really don't think that any of the posts are criticising you; the same advice is given to everyone who asks 

[Coco]

Bev I'm not suggesting that you are a BYB or anything of the like but as I have said in my experience I have been contacted by 'members' recomending litters that turn out to be their pet breeding. Needless to say the had made little contribution to the site as was obvious from their previous posts.
There was also a case not so long ago of someone on here asking about labradoodles or cockerdoors or something. They were confused as they thought they were cross breed but another very helpful member had contacted them after their 'looking for a puppy' post recommending their litter and telling them all sorts about this fab new breed. Fair enough if they were being honest but they weren't. The original poster ended up feeling very confused and upset.

You say putting judgment on something yo haven't seen first hand is wrong but surely that's what an internet forum is wholly about. Of course we haven't seen it and unless we all regularly go to COL meets or are vets then that will remain the case.

I'm glad that you have a happy, healthy pup and that you have a breeder that you are happy with we can only go on how things 'sound' and in this case it sounds less than ideal. Perhaps that's not the case but I hope that anyone using the site is able to understand where people are coming from when being given advice. There is nothing malicious here, just a bunch of people working from their own experiences and trying to help others get the best pup they can to avoid heartache in the future. If you takeoffence to that then I'm sorry but I'd rather ensure that people were given the information and made up their own minds than we all kept quiet and the commercial breeders and puppy farmers had yet more customers.

In addition, though I'm not suggesting it in this case, a pedigree does not guarantee a good breeder but a breeder that has bought a good dog to breed from