puppy is biting/ snapping.

[Angels of Fur]

Wow, leaving his food, and rollover!!! you have a clever dog.

How did you manage roll over?

[Jeanette]

Haven't got anything to add other than whats already been said but another idea is to have a houseline on him so that if he is chewing the sofa then you do not have to manhandle him to remove him from the room and that way you can prevent any confrontation and avoid holding his muzzle.   

[jarbaha]

hello and welcome to col 

i'm horrified  , that you have pinned down a helpless puppy.
all puppies mouth/bite it's part and parcel of being a puppy, and how puppies learn bite inhabition. by holding/pinning a puppy and grasping its jaws together, all you are teaching a puppy is to be scarred of you, you are the most important person in that puppies life, and will ( if not already), become scarred of you.

there are so many nice correct ways of teaching puppy bite inhabition, with out resorting to force  .

distract a puppy with a toy, something thats approprate for a puppy to chew on, say " ouch", as soon as teeth touch skin, never hold a puppy by its collar, again this is seen as a form of punishment, say your puppies name nicley, and again distract, if puppy is excited and bites, just remove form the room, for a few mins, and when puppy is calm bring puppy back in, you may have to repeat this a few times, but the one thing a puppy does not like is to be out of sight, a puppy and especially a puppy so young, there is no need to forcefully hold and clamp shut any puppy jaws,or pin/hold down any puppy, all this does is make a situation worse, and in the puppies defence, will and could bite you. using a long line lead is also another good idea, rather than pulling on a dog/puppies collar.

have you thought about training classes, and learning how to treat a puppy in a nice way.

i'm sorry if i have upset you with my posting , this is not what its meant to be.

but i just feel in this day and age, no puppy/or adult dog deserves to be treated in such an appauling way, you would'nt pin a child to the floor, so why pin and hold down a defenceless young puppy.

i personally feel all persective puppy owners should take a course in puppy care, looking after a puppy kindley, before even contemplating purchasing a puppy.
alot of puppies /dogs turn bad, because of bad owners, and their training methods. i have 8 dogs myself, who all have wonderful temprements, all puppies are never born perfect, and it takes time, lots of patience, training to have lovely dogs to be so proud of.

again as for spraying a puppy with water, can't see why or how you would need to do this, and near the ears too, cockers can be prone to ear infections/ mites ect, so would'nt advise spraying ears on a spaniel.
all this will do is make your puppy " hand shy"

i'm speachless really .

[september]

Roxy was terrible for biting too. I would go with one or more of the methods reccomended, they all work.  we used a house line to pull her away at a distance and distracting with a toy.  its better to praise when they do what you want rather than get cross when they don't do what you want!

For example Roxy used to fuss round me while I was preparing food or cooking.  Getting annoyed with her did nothing, so we taught her to sit in her bed while I do the stuff, when I'm done she gets a small reward if she has stayed in her bed.  She is a year old now and automatically runs to her bed when I start cooking!!

I would try getting a book or two as well, and puppy classes as the others have said!

[SwanJack]

As for pinning down, it is recommended, whether rightly or wrongly, on the Purina Website

http://www.Purina.co.uk/Home/About+Purina/Multimedia+Library/Video/Preventing+play+biting.htm.

I feel the OP's frustration, we are going through a similar experience.   It's very hard to take on a softly softly approach when your pup is lunging and snapping at a very young child, even if in play.  I must confess that we have used the pin down method suggested by Purina, but only when the play biting gets out of hand (the pup barking, snapping and getting out of control). The pup has learnt that grossly unacceptable behaviour results in restraining and she now calms down very quickly (a matter of 30 secs).  My 'flaming' jacket is at the ready, but the method has been a success.  As for chewing furniture and general puppy naughtiness, a sharp 'No' and a time out period of 5 mins in her bed does the trick.  As for mouthing, our VET suggested that when this is happening and you find your hand in your pup's mouth, leave it in there use it to gently push the pup's neck backwards.  The pup seems to gag and lets go.  This has also worked, but its very painfull when the pup has teeth like pins. We also play alot of fetch with our pup, (she has been good at this from the day we got her at eight weeks) and this takes her mind off things that she shouldn't be doing. 

[Helen]

As for pinning down, it is recommended, whether rightly or wrongly, on the Purina Website

http://www.Purina.co.uk/Home/About+Purina/Multimedia+Library/Video/Preventing+play+biting.htm.

I feel the OP's frustration, we are going through a similar experience.   It's very hard to take on a softly softly approach when your pup is lunging and snapping at a very young child, even if in play.  I must confess that we have used the pin down method suggested by Purina, but only when the play biting gets out of hand (the pup barking, snapping and getting out of control). The pup has learnt that grossly unacceptable behaviour results in restraining and she now calms down very quickly (a matter of 30 secs).  My 'flaming' jacket is at the ready, but the method has been a success.  As for chewing furniture and general puppy naughtiness, a sharp 'No' and a time out period of 5 mins in her bed does the trick.  As for mouthing, our VET suggested that when this is happening and you find your hand in your pup's mouth, leave it in there use it to gently push the pup's neck backwards.  The pup seems to gag and lets go.  This has also worked, but its very painfull when the pup has teeth like pins. We also play alot of fetch with our pup, (she has been good at this from the day we got her at eight weeks) and this takes her mind off things that she shouldn't be doing. 

I can't believe I've just read this - such appalling and antiquated ways of treating a pup 

I would start by changing vets.....

[Jane S]

As for pinning down, it is recommended, whether rightly or wrongly, on the Purina Website

http://www.Purina.co.uk/Home/About+Purina/Multimedia+Library/Video/Preventing+play+biting.htm.

It may well be but is a dog food manufacturer really the best source of info on puppy training and behaviour Vets also have very little experience of dog training (unless they have undertaken further study into dog behaviour) so their advice is also not necessarily to be relied on. I can understand how confusing it is for new puppy owners to be bombarded with all this different advice but find it sad and quite worrying that so many new owners resort to these kind of heavy handed and totally unnecessary tactics. It also seems by the number of posts on the same subject lately that many breeders are failing their new owners by not warning them of the realities of what living with a puppy is like (especially when there are young children) and not providing any kind of advice on training

[jarbaha]

As for pinning down, it is recommended, whether rightly or wrongly, on the Purina Website

http://www.Purina.co.uk/Home/About+Purina/Multimedia+Library/Video/Preventing+play+biting.htm.

I feel the OP's frustration, we are going through a similar experience.   It's very hard to take on a softly softly approach when your pup is lunging and snapping at a very young child, even if in play.  I must confess that we have used the pin down method suggested by Purina, but only when the play biting gets out of hand (the pup barking, snapping and getting out of control). The pup has learnt that grossly unacceptable behaviour results in restraining and she now calms down very quickly (a matter of 30 secs).  My 'flaming' jacket is at the ready, but the method has been a success.  As for chewing furniture and general puppy naughtiness, a sharp 'No' and a time out period of 5 mins in her bed does the trick.  As for mouthing, our VET suggested that when this is happening and you find your hand in your pup's mouth, leave it in there use it to gently push the pup's neck backwards.  The pup seems to gag and lets go.  This has also worked, but its very painfull when the pup has teeth like pins. We also play alot of fetch with our pup, (she has been good at this from the day we got her at eight weeks) and this takes her mind off things that she shouldn't be doing. 

I can't believe I've just read this - such appalling and antiquated ways of treating a pup 

I would start by changing vets.....

i totally agree with you livercake, totally appauling

[Cob-Web]

It also seems by the number of posts on the same subject lately that many breeders are failing their new owners by not warning them of the realities of what living with a puppy is like (especially when there are young children) and not providing any kind of advice on training

I've been thinking the same thing, Jane - I remember how disappointed I was to be turned down by breeder after breeder when we were looking for a puppy due to lil'bits age.......I had a pretty good idea what to expect when we eventually found Molo, but it was still incredibly hard 

Ultimately, it is the dogs that are failed 

[SwanJack]

As for pinning down, it is recommended, whether rightly or wrongly, on the Purina Website

http://www.Purina.co.uk/Home/About+Purina/Multimedia+Library/Video/Preventing+play+biting.htm.

I feel the OP's frustration, we are going through a similar experience.   It's very hard to take on a softly softly approach when your pup is lunging and snapping at a very young child, even if in play.  I must confess that we have used the pin down method suggested by Purina, but only when the play biting gets out of hand (the pup barking, snapping and getting out of control). The pup has learnt that grossly unacceptable behaviour results in restraining and she now calms down very quickly (a matter of 30 secs).  My 'flaming' jacket is at the ready, but the method has been a success.  As for chewing furniture and general puppy naughtiness, a sharp 'No' and a time out period of 5 mins in her bed does the trick.  As for mouthing, our VET suggested that when this is happening and you find your hand in your pup's mouth, leave it in there use it to gently push the pup's neck backwards.  The pup seems to gag and lets go.  This has also worked, but its very painfull when the pup has teeth like pins. We also play alot of fetch with our pup, (she has been good at this from the day we got her at eight weeks) and this takes her mind off things that she shouldn't be doing. 

I can't believe I've just read this - such appalling and antiquated ways of treating a pup 

I would start by changing vets.....

I have absolutely no intention of doing so.  I have had dealings with the Professional in question for a number of years, as have a number of acquaintances.  It all comes down to whose opinion you trust.  I have no reason to believe that his advice would have any negative effect on our family's pet. 

[Cob-Web]

I have absolutely no intention of doing so.  I have had dealings with the Professional in question for a number of years, as have a number of acquaintances.  It all comes down to whose opinion you trust.  I have no reason to believe that his advice would have any negative effect on our family's pet. 

Does he have professional animal behavioural qualifications?  If not, then your trust may be misplaced - and end in tragedy   

Dog behaviour is not based on opinion - it is based on observation, assessment and diagnosis 

[jarbaha]

As for pinning down, it is recommended, whether rightly or wrongly, on the Purina Website

http://www.Purina.co.uk/Home/About+Purina/Multimedia+Library/Video/Preventing+play+biting.htm.

It may well be but is a dog food manufacturer really the best source of info on puppy training and behaviour Vets also have very little experience of dog training (unless they have undertaken further study into dog behaviour) so their advice is also not necessarily to be relied on. I can understand how confusing it is for new puppy owners to be bombarded with all this different advice but find it sad and quite worrying that so many new owners resort to these kind of heavy handed and totally unnecessary tactics. It also seems by the number of posts on the same subject lately that many breeders are failing their new owners by not warning them of the realities of what living with a puppy is like (especially when there are young children) and not providing any kind of advice on training

excellent advise jane s

i could'nt have put it better myself. yes totally agree with are pet food manufactures really the best source to advise on puppy training/ behaviour.

why could'nt you ask your breeder for advise, on kind puppy methods.

as a breeder myself, i would hate to think of any of my puppies being treated this way, i would personally report them.
i vet my new persective puppy owners, with a fine tooth comb, and have refused people, i give huge amounts of information, covering all aspects of puppy owning, training ect, and am there for the life of my puppies, which i hope people will go away and read, and give this out before a puppy leaves me, along the 8 weeks, i talk in depth to people, and tell people to look past cute puppy.

it angers    me so much, that people don't do their homework, take a puppy home, and expect miracles, as i have said no puppy is born perfect, puppies due bite/ mouth, this is normal puppy behaviour, its down to a level headed, kind owner to enforce kind positive reward based training. i have always told persective puppy owners to ignore bad behaviour and reward good behaviour.
you are going to have rough phases with all puppies of all breeds, not just cockers, and all puppies start good, its the " owners", that turn them bad.

a puppy is a joy, through naughty phases,and any phases, it does get better, puppies test their bounderies, but you must only ever use kind reward based methods, not holding/ pinning and scarring a puppy for life  , which can inforce a puppy to bite more.

i'm totally speechless, and horrified    , and totally saddened by what i have read on here  :'(in this day and age, some new puppy owners, and even vets can advise on such harsh methods.
as i say i own 8 fantastic cocker spaniels, who have only ever been shown love, care, and positive training, we have all beeen there and had a puppy, and it does and will get better, with time, paitence, and love.
and i own 8 fantastically laid back cockers who show no aggression, its all about the way we raise our puppies, mine are  a real joy to own, yes they have been naughty, chewed through telephone wires, dug holes, taken socks,gone through the puppy biting phase ( 8 times) ect, that is a typical puppy.
you could also take a look  at some children in todays society, bad parenting.....
imo although no puppy is born perfect, some owners have alot to answer too  .

[Helen]

I have absolutely no intention of doing so.  I have had dealings with the Professional in question for a number of years, as have a number of acquaintances.  It all comes down to whose opinion you trust.  I have no reason to believe that his advice would have any negative effect on our family's pet. 

Does he have professional animal behavioural qualifications?  If not, then your trust may be misplaced - and end in tragedy   

Dog behaviour is not based on opinion - it is based on observation, assessment and diagnosis 

I think you've answered your own question Cob-web - I would hope that any professional with animal behavioural qualifications would not promote aversive and damaging *training* therefore it would be a 'no'.... 

[PennyB]

I also think that some of these more averse methods are really dangerous in the hands of some people

I think its too much of a copout to suggest these methods are Ok because of the children. Would people do this then to their 2 year old if they were just as brattish.

Also as Rachel and Jane suggest I don't think some owners realise what having a pup is like sometimes and think its all about housetraining and that's it

Sadly when people do try to be realistic about what having a pup entails then they're criticised for trying to put people off yet I know all the pups I've been involved in rehoming I've been pretty tough with the prospective new owners especially if they have young children, but they are armed with all the info they need and the help and support they need. The number of times I hear that a pup is soooo aggressive and nasty from an owner not willing to compromise or listen --- I understand yes you have to be careful with children (before anyone has a pop) yet when said pup is rehomed they're not a problem at all.

Mishandling a pup can be one of the ways that they can develop much bigger problems later on --- I do believe in being firm with them but non-confrontational. An adult cocker I fostered recently had been made much worse because previous owners had handled her badly.

As has been said sometimes its better for a family to have an older dog that has matured a bit and isn't quite so much a handful.

I feel some find it easier to use aversives rather than step back and find other ways to solve the problem

[Karma]

Pedigree gives the same advice re: pinning pups down - and it certainly doesn't make it right....  

Using force against a puppy is just storing up potential problems for the future.  You may
be lucky and have no problems, but using aversive methods inhibits a dog's reactions, rather than teaching it acceptable behaviour (in a positive manner) - one day the dog could just snap and then what are you going to do? Attempt to pin a fully grown dog on the floor??
And if it bites another person (or a child) are you going to say "Well, Purina told us to do it?"

We are new to dog ownership, and we, too, read all the conflicting advice about how to teach a dog... we were guided by opinions here, but ultimately made our own decision - and that was that we wanted to raise our dog with care and compassion rather than force and bullying.  

It sat far better with me than any of these dominance issues... if we can learn to treat animals with respect and compassion, maybe there's a chance we can learn to do the same to other humans.... If we advocate bullying and domination, how will that be reflected in our treatment of other people??  

I know everyone has given advice with the best of intentions, and no-one has deliberately been unkind to their puppy - however as caring, sharing dog owners, we would be failing if we did not disagree with what is being advocated.  Please learn to develop a mutual respect between yourself and your puppy - this will lead to long happy relationship between dog and owner....  

Oh - and not all professionals are right in everything (especially if it not their direct area of expertise) - would you take psychological advice from an orthopedic surgeon?? - dietary advice from your chiropodist?? physiotherapy exercises from your GP??