Bullying puppy

[stuffster]

Purdey is your typical bouncy exhuberant cocker pup but I am a bit worried she doesnt seem to have any sense of when she has gone to far with her playing.

With an older dog, she will bounce until she gets a telling off and then she will back down. But with smaller or more timid dogs she will knock them to the ground and sit on them and then runs after them and knock them down again etc, even when her 'victim' had obviously had enough.

I tell her off but it doesnt make any difference - she goes completely deaf and just keeps bullying and bullying until I have to pull her away. (even liver cake cant tempt her away from a good fight!!)

We have a friend with a gorgeous working cocker a few weeks younger than her, and it is becoming almost embarressing because she bullies the poor little fella mercilessly until his mum has to pick him up or I have to drag her off him. He just spends the whole of out meets running away from her or being knocked down and jumped on. It has gotten so bad that I generally leave her lead on now so I dont have to put my hand into the wriggling growling bundle of pups to drag her out.

Any advice for how to handle this one?

[bibathediva]

I had a bullying problem with Biba when i got Lola..Biba bullied Lola... to the point that Lola would eventually retaliate after giving Biba all the submissive/give up signs which Biba ignored    ...i do think bully dogs pick on the weakest dog as Biba would never bully another dog outside of the house...she is actually quite fearful of other dogs which i think added to the problem at home..as in it made her feel in control to bully Lola  ...she no longer bullies Lola...the main reason i feel is that Lola is now bigger and stronger than her so she is physically unable to do it anymore 
but i did have a behaviourist out as i thought if i handled it wrongly it would turn into a long term problem  ie:2 bitches not getting on is not a good long term outlook 
she would also bully her on walks and would chase her down until she got hold of her  ...i would give Biba a warning of "enough"and if she persisted she would be put back on the lead...i sometimes had to chase her around the field to catch her but i always made sure i followed through ...how ever long it took...it was a long slow process aided by the fact that Lola was eventually able to out run Biba...so Biba gave up chasing her   
Not sure if what i was told to do would be any good for a pup as Biba was alot older than that ...could be worth talking to someone with knowledge in dog behaviour 

[Cob-Web]

Molo was a bit "over-exuberant" as a puppy - I remember one fully grown lab that he picked on which was terrified of him 

I taught him to ignore other dogs using a longline; he needed to learn some self control, so the line prevented him from being rewarded for the behaviour I was trying to stop 

[rebeccabloor]

Bentley is showing signs of this also.

He regularly sees my mil's beagle bitch who is 9 months old and almost fully grown. she goes right into submissive mode when we visit her house as i'm sure she understands he is very young (16wks) and allows him to play bite he ears face legs whilst on her back, without retaliating.

We've taken him for walks to the car boot sales in the last month to start getting him used to ppl and other dogs on leads and every dog he passes he want to not only play but to dominate. even really large dogs. He wants to sniff then playbite the face and ears but hasn't had a 'telling off' from another dog yet to put him in his place.

He is going to a puppy party at the vets on weds 1st oct as i missed the last one on his 12th wk and i've told the vets of his 'over confidence' just incase there are alot of young ones there as it won't teach him much if theres not a dog there to bring him down a peg or two......

[Helen]

Jarvis was exuberant as a pup, but learnt quickly from other dogs that his over-excited behaviour was not acceptable after a certain age.   I didn't interfere as I thought it was important that he interacted and learnt from other dogs, and yes he did get 'told off' a lot from about 6 months on and began to learn a bit of respect and humility!

As he matured he grew disinterested in playing as much and now will interact if he wants to.  More often than not he'll run straight past dogs and do his own thing or come back to me if I whistle. Nothing to do with me and any training, it's just his personality

Purdey will lose her 'puppy passport' soon and will be told off by adults and I believe this is all part of her growing up process.  Unless her play involves the other dog being distressed and yelping then I would leave her to it.  It looks a lot worse than it really is, they're quite resilient really.

I could post you Jarv if you like - he is very tolerant of puppies...to a point...and then will tell them off if he thinks they're being norty which they take heed of very quickly  (he's not EVER bitten another dog, just a telling off  )

[Beth]

Jarvis was exuberant as a pup, but learnt quickly from other dogs that his over-excited behaviour was not acceptable after a certain age.   I didn't interfere as I thought it was important that he interacted and learnt from other dogs, and yes he did get 'told off' a lot from about 6 months on and began to learn a bit of respect and humility!

What she said. (exactly, even the name was right )

[Cob-Web]

Unless her play involves the other dog being distressed and yelping then I would leave her to it. 

I agree - although there do seem to be more and more adult dogs which are under socialised and scared of others....owned by people who are rather overprotective of their doggies   

I always check with the other owner that it is OK for my two to play with theirs; but even then, I have been tutted and huffed at because my two have got boisterous and the other dog isn't always impressed 

[Karma]

We were in the fields today and met a gorgeous Weimeraner pup - only 18 weeks old and very full of life!!! Honey had been playing with a few other dogs and was still raring to play, but was a bit barky because of this which the pup found a little disconcerting - the pup then started jumping up at us and Honey barked at her.  We were mortified (especially after her recent guarding type behaviour) though we later realised it was exactly what we thanked other dog owners for letting their dogs do when Honey was younger... it's hard when it's your dog that seems to be telling others pups off, but it is how they learn. 
I agree - as long as the pup is not upset or distressed dogs should be left to sort things out - some adult dog will soon tell Purdey her behaviour is not acceptable!!! If she is upsetting another pup, can you try using a toy to distract her?? Dogs normally interact better if they are walking along with each other rather than staying in the same place - maybe this would help keep things calmer?

[vikki.k]

Jarvis was exuberant as a pup, but learnt quickly from other dogs that his over-excited behaviour was not acceptable after a certain age.   I didn't interfere as I thought it was important that he interacted and learnt from other dogs, and yes he did get 'told off' a lot from about 6 months on and began to learn a bit of respect and humility!

What she said. (exactly, even the name was right )

Again Baja follows Jarvis.........they come from the same black and tan school

[KellyS]

Jarvis was exuberant as a pup, but learnt quickly from other dogs that his over-excited behaviour was not acceptable after a certain age.   I didn't interfere as I thought it was important that he interacted and learnt from other dogs, and yes he did get 'told off' a lot from about 6 months on and began to learn a bit of respect and humility!

As he matured he grew disinterested in playing as much and now will interact if he wants to.  More often than not he'll run straight past dogs and do his own thing or come back to me if I whistle. Nothing to do with me and any training, it's just his personality

Purdey will lose her 'puppy passport' soon and will be told off by adults and I believe this is all part of her growing up process.  Unless her play involves the other dog being distressed and yelping then I would leave her to it.  It looks a lot worse than it really is, they're quite resilient really.

I could post you Jarv if you like - he is very tolerant of puppies...to a point...and then will tell them off if he thinks they're being norty which they take heed of very quickly   (he's not EVER bitten another dog, just a telling off   )

I completely agree with this Helen I think us humans interfer far too much sometimes all in good heart i've been guilty of it in the past out of concern for my dogs.

Our Jazzy was brilliant with young dogs, she was tolerant but would put them in their place if they stepped out of line, she wouldn't bite aggressively but give plenty of warnings These types of dogs are brilliant for young pups to learn from.

If the shoe is on the other foot and you have got a not so confident pup that is being bullied by another pup/dog I would usually step in at a point because my train of thought is that I wouldn't want it to learn to have to bite/snap to rid itself of the boisterous pup or for it to become frightened and scared as this could develop a problem, but is this wrong

I would want the pup to learn that I am there to protect it and to feel safe with me.

I have had a couple of incidences where male dogs have been mithering some of my girls ( they weren't in season) and they clearly didn't like it, so I have stepped in because I didn't want them to have to resort to snapping and learn that snapping makes the other dog go away - i'm now wondering if that is the wrong thing to do and should I really have let them sort it out for themselves

[stuffster]

I could post you Jarv if you like

Yes please    Dont think I would be posting him back in a hurry though!!   

Thanks for some great advice - particularly about keeping them moving - when my friend and I take the pups to the park, they are much better if we keep on walking.

Purdey has had a few tellings off from bigger dogs (and always wees in submission!!) and so she is gradually learning to be more respectful of the big dogs that can stand up for themselves.

Its the little ones how dont know how to stand up for themselves that worries me. At the Suffolk COL meet, she kept chasing poor little Sophie round and round, bowling her over and sitting on her, til the poor pup was obviously exhausted and fed up, and yet Purdey didnt back down. I had to keep dragging her off and trying to distract her, but she went straight back to bullying her every 5 minutes, until eventually I had to keep her on the lead. There were lots of other playful dogs there who would have enjoyed a good chase, but Purdey seemed to be deliberately picking on the littlest one!

Sometimes a whistle and treats can lure her away for a few seconds (until she has swallowed the livercake) but I still havent found a toy that gets her attention when we are out of the house - I have balls and frisbees, squeeky things etc but she isnt interested.

[CarolineL]

Jarvis was exuberant as a pup, but learnt quickly from other dogs that his over-excited behaviour was not acceptable after a certain age.   I didn't interfere as I thought it was important that he interacted and learnt from other dogs, and yes he did get 'told off' a lot from about 6 months on and began to learn a bit of respect and humility!

What she said. (exactly, even the name was right )

Again Baja follows Jarvis.........they come from the same black and tan school

ditto for Hurley.

Although he STILL has to chase after every dog that he sees in case they want to play with him. 

He's got much better at reading their body signals though and will approach slowly now rather than charge them full on. I believe he's better at reading body signals because eventually, I let him get on with it. Primarily I was calling him back and putting him on the lead, but in time I got some excellent advice from here and let him learn what other dogs were trying to say to him by leaving him to be taught manners by those who could teach him best!

[JoC]

I've been working a lot on Baxters recall so I can call him away from other dogs. I frequently interrupt play (nice play) to get him to sit for a treat before allowing him back again.

If he did develop a bullying habit (he's a bit timid at the moment but growing in confidence rapidly!) I wouldn't leave him to it for several reasons. The most selfish one is that there are now very few 'well' socialised dogs who are well practised at using appropriate corrections. A lot of dogs get punished for growling and showing normal behaviour, and are not allowed to develop bite inhibition. That could mean Baxter would be bugging a dog who could be getting more and more uncomfortable before finally being pushed too far and giving Bax a real bite as opposed to a normal warning.

Plus I'd be annoyed if it was my dog being bullied, especially if he lacked the confidence to stand up for himself.

I'd have a long line trailing, and any bullying behaviour would result in him being pulled away for a bit to calm down before being allowed back to play nicely.

If the other dog is very well socialised and sensible, I'd let it protect itself if ok with the owner.