11 month old 'destroyer'!

[Karma]

Sorry, but 2/3 times a day training for a 4 month old is perfect.... you should really only do training in short bursts, as it is mentally tiring... so 5-10 minutes 2-3 times a day is great...

Honey doesn't have a high working drive, but we do more than 20 mins of training a week... and obedience training doens't have to be boring and stuck on a lead...   We do leg weaves, figure of eights, various tricks (bang, shut the drawer, get the post, knock over a table, hit the "that was easy button", pray etc etc), obedience stuff (heelwork, retrieves, stays, presents), agility stuff (either using equipment for jumps, weaves etc, or just following a hand guide to improve handling).  And at 11 months we were doing more than we do now... every walk was a training session (loose lead walking, recall, down at a distance etc).  She certainly also got plenty of time to run around, play and explore, but training really tires her out far more than just running around does... If I ever had a short lunch break at home (less than 1/2 hr) I would do a clicker training session rather than a play in the garden, as I knew she would be more settled following the brain work...

Oh... and you don't need to actually go out on shoots to do gundog training... while I think Honey is perfectly happy with the level of stimulation she gets, I have enquired about a gundog training class to be able to have more fun with her while out and about... I have no intention of ever going anywhere near a shoot (no offence to those that do, but it's just not my cup of tea) but that doesn't mean I should deny Honey the opportunity to have a go at developing the skills that are used in gundog work - even if the only practical application she gets is us being able to direct her should she lose her tennis ball in the long grass....    I don't know if anything will come of the enquiry, but at least I'm willing to look into the idea...
We also do formal obedience training and agility lessons.

Yes - at 11 months, he is at the age where he may well be at his most destructive, but unless you meet his need for mental stimulation, the destructiveness may develop into a habit which he won't grow out of.  

I hope I'm wrong, I really do... Honey is my first dog, so I by no means know everything... but I think even now she would be climbing the walls if she only had 20 minutes of training a week - especially if she was running around all the time (I find she needs a little bit of brain work to calm down after a lot of running around in unstructured fun...).

[Harveypops]

Just going back to the destructive element (I'm rubbish with analysing food- this comes from a girl who's staple diet is made by Walkers and Cadburys), I'd keep using the crate.

I do trust Harvey, and he doesn't use the crate at night, and I happily leave him free in the house if I'm popping out for a couple of mins. HOWEVER, I'm still skeptical how he'd cope alone if left longer. He's got a really annoying/endearing habit of nudging his toys under the coffee table. I'm worried that if he does this unattended he may eat my coffee table to get to it  

So, at the moment, to avoid an upset owner and dog he's crated when left. I guess dogs are like people, and some are a little more cheeky than others. Harvey's 90% angel, but I want him to mature a little more before I give him the run of my house.

Good luck. I can imagine it being tricky trying to fit loads of training in a multiple dog house hold, but I do think upping the anti with it may help as it seems to knacker out my little monkey. I do pretty much what Karma has mentioned, although we're yet to start agility as he's still to young.

[sharonmansfield]

Hiya,
I can appreciate your frustrations and everyone on here is lovely and just trying to help, I only joined last week and have learned loads so here is what I did with my pup Bella as she was a big chewer and off her head most of the time, anything she could get too was fair game and cost me a fortune as my husband kept leaving his leather shoes lying around. She was also very energetic and hyper and reduced me to tears on more than one occasion. One night we were watching TV and the burglar alarm went off I looked at the panel and it was the tamper light that was lit up, we then found she had eaten the wire which was glued along the skirting board, she has also eaten the speaker wire on many occasions from the surround sound on the TV, Makeup, hairbrushes, tv remote and there are teeth marks in the coffee table where she obviously tried it but did not like it, she has not eaten any furniture luckily. She also chewed the wire on my husbands lap top, very scary!! Oh and not forgetting the christmas tree she would pull decorations off and chew them I ended up with 2 fireguards around it for the whole festive period - very pretty!!

Solutions that worked for me

Try a different food
I know you say you do not want to do this but whilst Royal Canin is a good food and I am not disputing that at all as my breeder recommended it for my dog I just found that at 5 months she was a very hyper, my mum suggested I changed her onto something else so reluctantly I chose James Wellbeloved and she seemed better behaved however she was a bit of a fussy eater so she now is on Burns which she loves and thrives on, I feed less than recommended but mix in some tinned butchers tripe. All puppys are different and what suits one may not suit another there could be an ingredient in his food that triggers this hyperactivity and you wont know this until you give him a trial on something else. Just try it for a week or so and see. It did make a difference for Bella.

Change Activity
Its lovely that your dog is out and about all day but running loose is not stimulating as its just back and forth He is obviously an intelligent pup and needs mental stimulation to wear him out rather than just physical exercise. On the bright side for you I did find it hard to wear out Bella but now she is a lazy pup she has totally grown through this stage. From around 15 months on she became a calm girl and is getting more and more lazy it must be said. he could chew through boredom or at this age he may still be teething.

Baby Gates
I installed a few of these, I did not want to crate her everytime I left the house so the kitchen, dining room and landing she has a free run of as its "dog Proofed" everywhere else has a baby gate so she cannot gain access but can see through. She has never chewed the furniture though just stuff on and around it.

Cardboard Boxes
This worked the best for her, she loved and still does cardboard boxes with treats in, just empty cereal packets and stuff with a dog treat wrapped in newspaper to make it more of a challenge, I often pop in a carrot too as she loves to chew these and they get a bit of a thrill from the crunch of it, they often crunch it up then go back and eat it later, I think the coldness helped them as I keep them in the fridge. Once i started to give he cardboard to shred I did find a drop in the amount of chewing elsewhere.

Kongs
You say he has Kongs but not sure what you put in them, I have used salmon paste, chicken roll and pack it tight so its an effort to get it out. You can even freeze them. My girls love this.

There is no point shouting as the deed is already done, prevention is the best thing ( but yes that is not easy like I say my husband kept leaving his stuff lying around then moaning when it got ate - whos fault is thatt ry and see your home from your pups eyes.

However on the positive side Bella calmed down from 8 months old, every month she became better, she has not chewed anything for ages but then maybe I don't give her the opportunity too but on saying that though as its hot I have all of the doors open and nothing in any room has been touched by her. My youngest at 15 months has never chewed anything she has been an angel  if ever there is a problem its always been Bella!!.

If you come up with any other ideas I would be interested to hear as I am always trying to think of new ways to keep them occupied.
Good luck, let me know how you get . How about a picture of the young offender
Sharon Bella and Jasmine

[PennyB]

Royal Canin is fabulous .  His coat is glossy and he is very well and I dont really want to change save to move up to 'adult' at a year.

Personally I think 2/3 times a day 'training' is rather a lot for a 4 month old pup!  It depends what you are doing though I suppose.  My chap is quite advanced in his obedience training - by 'infrequently' I would say I work with him one to one for about 20 mins  a week .

My frustration has been caused as so few people really addressed my problem IMO as it is certainly not the quality of his food or lack of exercise.  Frredom to play and run around has to be so much better and more natural  than work on a lead all the time!  Thanks Bracken I think you hit the nail on the head.  It is probably his age and he will improve with time.  I am re-enrolling for agility classes in the Autumn as he absolutely loves it and is very trainable.  Gun dog training would be pointless though as I am too old to 'beat' and cannot afford a gun!

I have now obtained a break down of what is in his puppy food as against adult food.  I am advised that he should stay on puppy food for the moment but as soon as I am satisfied he has stopped growing I will change him to adult food which is much lower in digestible protein and oil.  Although he still needs high protein/oil food for growth it could well be giving him too much energy!

Thanks again - no intention to offend.

As others suggest its about the type of training that gundog training is regardless of whether you shoot - many people to this and field trials without ever shooting or wanting to and even agility may not do it for him either. Its about different types of exercise - bright dogs don't just need running around to get them tired they also need stuff to stimulate their brains as well or they may go make up their own entertainment - the act of chewing stimulates the brain and can also act as a pacifier for those dogs that are stressed, eg through separation anxiety (and yes a dog can have SA in a room full of other dogs as its mor eoften than not human company they strive). Those that are replying have working cockers so often have an idea of the breed through experience - mine is through rescue as we're seeing more in rescue due to understimulation (we even have one in just now I believe ).

[PennyB]

Kongs
You say he has Kongs but not sure what you put in them, I have used salmon paste, chicken roll and pack it tight so its an effort to get it out. You can even freeze them. My girls love this.

I used light cream cheese in mine and some of thier breakfast biscuits (ie they only get part of their breakfast or supper depending on when they get the kongs)

Also sometimes having all their toys around can make them complacent/bored as well - I put all of theirs in a box and just take one or two out at a time and just recycle them every so often.

[sharonmansfield]

Penny B I love your signature Cockers are just hooligans in cute clothing very funny and very true!!!

[turbobert]

Thank you all for your suggestions.  We have a rescue greyhound visiting us at present and our pup is so exhausted in the evenings rushing round with him he is a perfect angel!  So onward and upward as they say - I am fairly confident he will grow out of it and in a short time I will change him gradually to adult food with lower protein and oil and see what happens.  He is an absolute delight and we love him to bits - I just thought he would have become more sensible by now like our other cockers before him - I suspect he is brighter and more excitable and will always be that way.

I have looked into gundog training - there is a class about 30 miles from us.  It is expensive and I think not worthwhile - as I said before we  will rejoin the agility class in the autumn.